China

[Ridley]

What exactly would an inquiry do that could be of any benefit?

Genuine question.

Identify the exact source of the virus. There appears little doubt it was in Wuhan but where? The wet market or the lab? Or somewhere else? Then to understand how it spread so rapidly and how it could have been contained so that 3.5 million people don't get infected and 250K people don't die. Millions and millions of people suddenly unemployed and the associated societal issues that go with that. Wouldn't a greater understanding of these issues provide global health authorities with the tools to prevent an outbreak like this in the future?

Or do we just sit on how hands and accept what the CCP tells us? It is extremely likely they have the answers to many of these questions but there is no way they can be trusted to tell the truth. Therefore an independent inquiry run by the UN is the only other course of action.

SARS in 2003, COVID in 2019 which has proven so much worse than SARS. If nothing is done what's to say there won't be an even worse virus in 2030? Or 2040? I really don't understand how anyone could be against the establishment of an independent inquiry. It's common sense.

 

[TV Josh]

What exactly would an inquiry do that could be of any benefit?

Genuine question.

Identify the virus source so that international pressure (backed up with facts) can be put on China and other countries to prevent another outbreak of a similar respiratory virus in similar circumstances. For instances, at the moment, China isn't showing any inclination to ban wet markets permanently. There is a temporary ban, but the same thing happened in 2003 after the SARS outbreak - banned, then allowed again. If wetmarkets are indeed where this virus transitioned to people, then common sense dictates that wet markets should be banned.

 

[Baloo]

To ban wet markets there needs to be refrigeration from source all the way to sale. Outside of the major cities, China is still a very poor country.

Wet markets are throughout Asia and I'm sure other parts of the world where people are impoverished.

If all these answers and solutions were that simple to implemeny, they would have been done by now.

 

[Nico]

To ban wet markets there needs to be refrigeration from source all the way to sale. Outside of the major cities, China is still a very poor country.

Wet markets are throughout Asia and I'm sure other parts of the world where people are impoverished.

If all these answers and solutions were that simple to implemeny, they would have been done by now.

I don't buy for one second that China is a poor country, corrupt yes but not poor, when they are spending trillions on their blueprint for world domination, the Belt and Road project.

This is from Infectious diseases emerging from Chinese wet-markets: zoonotic origins of severe respiratory viral infections. October 19th 2006 Woo PC, Lau SK, Yuen KY. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16940861

"Two research groups independently discovered the presence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-like viruses in horseshoe bats. An astonishing diversity of coronaviruses was also discovered in different species of bats"

"In Chinese wet-markets, unique epicenters for transmission of potential viral pathogens, new genes may be acquired or existing genes modified through various mechanisms such as genetic reassortment, recombination and mutation. The wet-markets, at closer proximity to humans, with high viral burden or strains of higher transmission efficiency, facilitate transmission of the viruses to humans".

This was published in 2006

But it's all too hard to ban wet markets............

 

[Brodders17]

I don't buy for one second that China is a poor country, corrupt yes but not poor, when they are spending trillions on their blueprint for world domination, the Belt and Road project.

This is from Infectious diseases emerging from Chinese wet-markets: zoonotic origins of severe respiratory viral infections. October 19th 2006 Woo PC, Lau SK, Yuen KY. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16940861

"Two research groups independently discovered the presence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus-like viruses in horseshoe bats. An astonishing diversity of coronaviruses was also discovered in different species of bats"

"In Chinese wet-markets, unique epicenters for transmission of potential viral pathogens, new genes may be acquired or existing genes modified through various mechanisms such as genetic reassortment, recombination and mutation. The wet-markets, at closer proximity to humans, with high viral burden or strains of higher transmission efficiency, facilitate transmission of the viruses to humans".

This was published in 2006

But it's all too hard to ban wet markets............

Wet markets operate in Australia, most seafood is sold at them, and some fresh meat too, depending on your definition. Should they be banned too?

 

[Nico]

Wet markets operate in Australia, most seafood is sold at them, and some fresh meat too, depending on your definition. Should they be banned too?

Are you seriously comparing wet markets in Australia to wet markets in China?

 

[Brodders17]

Are you seriously comparing wet markets in Australia to wet markets in China?

I'm not comparing anything. You said wet markets should be banned. I just asked if that only applied to China or everywhere.

The way they treat animals in those markets certainly should be looked at, but again that should apply to farming practices worldwide.

The exotic animal trade should also be looked at, but who decides what is exotic?

Hopefully things will change for the better in the markets, but there wont be the quick easy fix some expect.

 

[AngryAnt]

It's the wild animal trade, it's not wet markets. You can't ban wet markets. You should ban wild animal trade in wet markets and more generally.

 

[Tigers of Old]

It's the wild animal trade, it's not wet markets. You can't ban wet markets. You should ban wild animal trade in wet markets and more generally.

Spot on antman. This is what needs to be banned.

 

[Nico]

I'm not comparing anything. You said wet markets should be banned. I just asked if that only applied to China or everywhere.

The way they treat animals in those markets certainly should be looked at, but again that should apply to farming practices worldwide.

The exotic animal trade should also be looked at, but who decides what is exotic?

Hopefully things will change for the better in the markets, but there wont be the quick easy fix some expect.

My bad, should have chosen my words more carefully.

Not advocating closing down wet markets, but definitely get rid of the wildlife food trade within these wet markets.

 

[artball]

The Bat origin of Covid19 keeps surfacing, and the female Chinese virologist who first noted the connection with horseshoe bats then completed the virus gene sequencing in the first week of January. She was then silenced. Her name is Shi Zhengli. There’s an article in Scientific American and elsewhere.

 

[AngryAnt]

My bad, should have chosen my words more carefully.

Not advocating closing down wet markets, but definitely get rid of the wildlife food trade within these wet markets.

No problem - nearly everyone is using the term inappropriately.

 

[DavidSSS]

The question is whether we are trying to get to the truth of the causes of the outbreak in order to try and avoid a repeat; or whether an enquiry is a means to score political points against the Chinese Government.

Personally I would not trust any government really, or any large private business for that matter, all out for themselves. Both China (this virus and I'm sure plenty more examples) and the USA (WMD in Iraq, Gulf of Tonkin Incident etc) cannot be trusted at all, less than other countries I would think. Finding an honest broker in all of this is very nearly impossible. As for the UN doing an enquiry - fat chance, both the USA and China are members of the Security Council and can veto anything they like for no apparent reason - any enquiry would need to satisfy both, along with France, the UK and Russia, the other permanent members with veto power.

We need an enquiry but it needs to focus on the causes of the virus and avoid blame as that would a) get us nowhere, and b) just not happen.

DS

 

[AngryAnt]

We already know the "cause" of the outbreak. People get infected, they travel, the virus has an R0 number greater than one.

 

[Tigers of Old]

A US report has found that China hid the severity of the outbreak in those crucial first couple of months to hoard global supplies.

 

[YinnarTiger]

A US report has found that China hid the severity of the outbreak in those crucial first couple of months to hoard global supplies.

Was it a genuine report or was it just a sarcastic one from some of Trump's cronies?

 

[Tigers of Old]

Was it a genuine report or was it just a sarcastic one from some of Trump's cronies?

This is a real problem because who the hell knows what's real & what's fake news now.

 

[Brodders17]

My bad, should have chosen my words more carefully.

Not advocating closing down wet markets, but definitely get rid of the wildlife food trade within these wet markets.

fair enough, and not meaning to have a go, but the calls from many, including politicians for China to shut down 'wet markets' while they remain everywhere else will not help convince them to 'cooperate'.

also can anyone suggest an example when any country has allowed an international body to investigate their response to any issue? Australia certainly hasn't been keen for any international investigation into our mistreatment of refugees for example.

 

[MB78]

fair enough, and not meaning to have a go, but the calls from many, including politicians for China to shut down 'wet markets' while they remain everywhere else will not help convince them to 'cooperate'.

also can anyone suggest an example when any country has allowed an international body to investigate their response to any issue? Australia certainly hasn't been keen for any international investigation into our mistreatment of refugees for example.

Not that I’m aware of. But this is different it’s closed down the world. So all countries are impacted. So yes we do need answers.

 

[Ridley]

fair enough, and not meaning to have a go, but the calls from many, including politicians for China to shut down 'wet markets' while they remain everywhere else will not help convince them to 'cooperate'.

also can anyone suggest an example when any country has allowed an international body to investigate their response to any issue? Australia certainly hasn't been keen for any international investigation into our mistreatment of refugees for example.

So what's your suggestion? Stick our heads in the sand, trust the the CCP will act in the best interests of global health and cross our fingers that this never happens again?

This is an unprecedented global health issue. Yes there have been pandemics in the past but unlike the 1920s Spanish Flu we now have the means to investigate and potentially act to prevent a future pandemic. The global health authorities need all the information to do so and China needs to get on board and do its part.

Otherwise we may just be back here again in 5, 10, 15 years.