GAME DAY - TIGES V SWANS | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

GAME DAY - TIGES V SWANS

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
17,988
21,508
Whilst I hated the footy yesterday, I do think Sydney were perfect. There aren't many teams that will consistently kick the footy with their field kicking like they did yesterday. I do think if this stand the mark rule remains they should increase the min kick distance to as mark from 15m to either 20 or 25. Quick ball movement is fine, but for me the kick to kick of 15m short chip kicks is not footy I want to watch. Now there aren't many teams doing it, so hopefully that was a one off rather than the norm.

There aren't many teams out there that can kick the footy as well as Sydney did though.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
24,565
12,129
Bartel even before our game was saying its Good disposal plus good decision making that are keys to success. Need to be sure we keep up to the mark on these two criteria.
They've been saying this for years. Pressure, intensity, and defensive structures wins you flags. Kicking efficiency wins you the April cup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

The_Celebrant

Tiger Superstar
Aug 18, 2018
1,473
2,642
malemelbournecelebrant.net.au
there's always a way to add pressure
If you go into a match expecting to lose centre clearances (for whatever reason) you simply adopt an ultra defensive approach at each centre bounce in order to force a secondary stoppage, at which point the whole 6-6-6 rule is out the window, and suddenly things are more on our terms. Generally Dimma backs the boys in to win their share of centre clearances, but the tactic I've just mentioned is always there if and when needed, as are other tactics such as going one-on-one to reduce the uncontested marks.

Sydney have played their hand early in the season - what will their Plan B be when they meet a very different Tiger outfit later on, and don't have it all their own way? A huge test for a young side whose confidence grew by the minute yesterday. If we strangle them early on in the next watch, watch their confidence wane.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,075
22,042
57
Sydney have played their hand early in the season - what will their Plan B be when they meet a very different Tiger outfit later on, and don't have it all their own way? A huge test for a young side whose confidence grew by the minute yesterday. If we strangle them early on in the next watch, watch their confidence wane.
Yep, as Farnsy sings that LRB song: "This time I'm playing to win"!!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,764
11,899
Sydney had 117 uncontested marks yesterday. That's unheard of!
The Pies took about 160 against us in 2019, and the dogs took about 120 the same year.

occasionally early in the season the short kicking game troubles us., but it never when it counts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

zgod

Tiger Legend
Feb 25, 2008
6,032
4,424
Conditions suited the swans gameplan.
We were off.
Hat's off to them.
Formidable side forming.
Wont be there in September though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,075
22,042
57
Conditions suited the swans gameplan.
We were off.
Hat's off to them.
Formidable side forming.
Wont be there in September though.
:mhihi That sharp summation is gonna make them sob like little kids.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,635
12,055
Whilst I hated the footy yesterday, I do think Sydney were perfect. There aren't many teams that will consistently kick the footy with their field kicking like they did yesterday. I do think if this stand the mark rule remains they should increase the min kick distance to as mark from 15m to either 20 or 25. Quick ball movement is fine, but for me the kick to kick of 15m short chip kicks is not footy I want to watch. Now there aren't many teams doing it, so hopefully that was a one off rather than the norm.

There aren't many teams out there that can kick the footy as well as Sydney did though.
Yeah Sydney were on, pure and simple. We were off too. On the 15 metres, I'd like to see it 15 metres from the mark, not where the player taking the kick happens to be, which means they have to kick it your 20 or 25. Thats the actual spirit of the rule IMO. The randomness of the adjudication of the not 15 drives me mental on many levels. The tolerances are pathetic, they can allow an 8 metre kick and then scream not 15 for a 23 metre kick, they allow 10 metre kicks all the time in the forward line, but have the hair trigger for poor old backmen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,647
18,153
Melbourne
While the optimism here and the parallels with previous years is good to read there are some things we cannot ignore.

The game has changed more this year than it normally does. The game changes a little each year. In some senses the standing the mark rule takes us back to many years ago when players would just stand there and wave their arms about when on the mark. What that misses though is that years ago the game was played differently - more kicking to contests, less of a possession and territory game than it is now. What the morons at the AFL have not taken into account is that the whole running around on the mark is a response to the way the game has developed over the last few decades - the kick into the corridor, the switch to the other side of the ground - these were nowhere near as prevalent back years ago. So, they have changed a rule and now we have 2020s strategies but the player on the mark is stuck with a 1970s response. F***ing stupid.

The game is clearly more open and even if there are strategies developed to counter this, the game has still changed a lot. I am trying to work out if I can sort some analysis of this based on the stats (contested versus uncontested marks, hitouts as an indicator of stoppages, contested versus uncontested possessions, tackles etc). Not sure what I will find but will be interested to see what is going on.

Our game style, specifically the aspect of it which relies on pressure and turnovers, is disadvantaged by the rule changes. That said, I am sure that the coaches at every team were the first to see this. We are early in the year and as Dimma keeps saying, you need to improve every year just to prevent dropping down the ladder. I'm sure they are looking into this and trying to work out ways to prevent the opposition from exploiting the open game against us, and how we can use it to our advantage. We will adapt and it might take a little time. One thing we need to do, although I'm not sure we could do this for the whole season and finals, is to address the centre bounce clearances. We managed to turn this around last year without Soldo so we can do it again - but we also have to determine when we are best to be putting in place the strategies we will need at the pointy end of the year. At this stage we do need to work on nullifying the opposition advantage though.

It is a balancing act for all teams, but for the reigning premiers we are the hunted and need to balance early season effort to win enough games to stay in touch, along with later season effort to have a shot at the big prize.

DS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users

RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,074
6,743
our kicking efficiency in the first quarter in particular was horrific. We burnt goals and created goals for Sydney. And this was under no pressure At all with options and targets. If this is us then we are screwed but I don’t think this is us.

looks like we go to port again significantly undermanned. vlaustin Prestia Macintosh soldo/CCJ and maybe Cotchin too.

will be a great win if we can pull it off.
 

Mr Brightside

Tiger Legend
Jul 1, 2005
24,873
12,283
Wang
Conditions suited the swans gameplan.
We were off.
Hat's off to them.
Formidable side forming.
Wont be there in September though.
Agree , except I’ve got no doubt they’ll be there in September, unless they get injuries like recent years. Got some genuine stars coming through
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
16,704
7,128
Same in 2019 when Collingwood beat us by 44 points in round 2.

I went back to check how much scoring has increased this year compared to 2019:

Round 3, 2019: 23.92 goals per game.
Round 3, 2021: 24.875 goals per game.
~5% increase, 1 goal per match.

The way those goals being scored might be different, but there's always a way to add pressure and we'll only get better at that as the year progresses.

I don't think that analysis tells the whole story. Winning team's score round 2, 2019 was 96 points, in round 3, 2021 so far it's 116. That's almost 21%. Teams are being cut up and can't stop the onslaught. There is clearly a lot less pressure this year due to the new rules. Our game is built on the pressure game with minimal effort and being able to grind down the opposition and counter-attacking. Due to the rule change it has allowed other teams to play that more aggressive counter-attacking game. It's reduced our advantage so tweaking will be necessary.
 

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
16,704
7,128
Conditions suited the swans gameplan.
We were off.
Hat's off to them.
Formidable side forming.
Wont be there in September though.

If you mean finals they'll be there. Already 3 and 0. Can they win 9 more out of 19 including playing Essendon, Giants, Fremantle, Suns twice? 12-7 gives them a likely top 4. Swans have been ultra impressive. They'll be thereabouts.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is 7!! WTF??
Aug 21, 2007
6,787
1,229
Ireland
our kicking efficiency in the first quarter in particular was horrific. We burnt goals and created goals for Sydney. And this was under no pressure At all with options and targets. If this is us then we are screwed but I don’t think this is us.

looks like we go to port again significantly undermanned. vlaustin Prestia Macintosh soldo/CCJ and maybe Cotchin too.

will be a great win if we can pull it off.

It hasn't seemed a secret that you can defeat our pressure cooker with field marking and precise kicking. It's just been very hard to do. Especially late in quarters and games. Implied pressure usually cooks teams. They drop marks and fumble handballs just from the expectation of that pressure. What remains to be seen (to my mind it has been lacking for years) is our ability to mark and hold possession with skillful kicking and solid marking. Intercept marking, sure. Jack and Lynch, sure. But between the arcs, not so much. That is the big difference (so far) thanks to the *smile* annoying meddling of the AFL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Carter

Tiger Legend
Nov 14, 2012
9,423
7,741
I like the new rules. I like high scoring and bags of goals. Love it in fact.

Don’t care how it affects us. To complain about what is IMO a vast improvement on the game is a blinkered mentality.

It’s up to our coaching group to adapt if they need to, tinker if the system still holds up (I think the latter is the case).

Either way, every campaign is different and we would do well to get rid of any lingering sense of entitlement right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users

Gazmatron

Tiger Matchwinner
Jun 23, 2013
961
240
I
It’s up to our coaching group to adapt if they need to, tinker if the system still holds up (I think the latter is the case).

Either way, every campaign is different and we would do well to get rid of any lingering sense of entitlement right now.
While it is early days, think you might be close here C. Its up to the coaches to file with the personnel to find the right mix. The new faster tempo to me indicates the game might have gone past a few long serving players, Caddy in particular. Fortunately the usual run of early injuries will allow the coaches to fiddle with the mix to find a good one.
 

ToraToraTora

Two outta three ain't bad.
Mar 21, 2005
12,715
5,514
QLD
I said it last week, how can you not be impressed by them. Their pressure was also very very good. But yes, it's a marathon not a sprint. We will eventually get our sheizen together and then we will see how the Swanettes, and anyone else, roll. Gonna be hard to win this week but I am sure we will give a good account. And yes, it feels manufactured, I dont like the stand rule, but no one wants to go back to rolling mauls. If we fall this year......we can't complain can we. All wildest dreams have come true.
Inject some youth and pace HW pleeeaassse!
 

tigerlove

Tiger Legend
Aug 9, 2014
16,704
7,128
I like the new rules. I like high scoring and bags of goals. Love it in fact.

Don’t care how it affects us. To complain about what is IMO a vast improvement on the game is a blinkered mentality.

It’s up to our coaching group to adapt if they need to, tinker if the system still holds up (I think the latter is the case).

Either way, every campaign is different and we would do well to get rid of any lingering sense of entitlement right now.

Blinkered mentality maybe if you like what the game has become. I don't like it and it's nothing to do with how it's affecting us. It's moving to a glorified game of basketball. Forwards kicking 10 goals is fine but you've got to earn it. When guys like Bruce who at 28y averages 1.4 goals a game starts kicking 10 you start wondering where the game's heading. It is what it is right now but gee I hope the defensive part of the game gets more credence back otherwise may as well start putting witches hats out as defenders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users

ToraToraTora

Two outta three ain't bad.
Mar 21, 2005
12,715
5,514
QLD
Blinkered mentality maybe if you like what the game has become. I don't like it and it's nothing to do with how it's affecting us. It's moving to a glorified game of basketball. Forwards kicking 10 goals is fine but you've got to earn it. When guys like Bruce who at 28y averages 1.4 goals a game starts kicking 10 you start wondering where the game's heading. It is what it is right now but gee I hope the defensive part of the game gets more credence back otherwise may as well start putting witches hats out as defenders.
Dunno if you watched that game but North were so bad I reckon I would've snagged a couple. No wonder someone kicked 10 and it wont be the last v Norf.