Is that all they said was there. Seemed a lot more than half full from where I was sitting.
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GAME DAY - Tiges vs Dees
- Thread starter Mr T.
- Start date
Is that all they said was there. Seemed a lot more than half full from where I was sitting.
Not sure whether Caddy’s the guy but apart from the Saints game it hasn’t functioned effectively. Think Sam Lonergan is the forward coach. He’s got homework.
Is it the new rules or the personnel that's affecting our forward pressure? Whatever, our 'one wood' is about as good as my golf swing atm.
Well that wasn't much fun, got beaten and got wet at the game.
We looked just a bit off tonight. Being down a rotation would not have helped but even ignoring that factor we were a bit off.
That said, Melbourne were good. They are a genuinely good team and are playing good footy. We'll see how long they can maintain it and how well they would go against us at full strength and in better form. But they are looking like they deserve to make finals and contend for top 4.
To my eyes our biggest issue tonight was entries into forward 50. We had more inside 50s than Melbourne yet we lost badly. The smalls in our forward line are not playing well. Castagna has been decent this year but I don't think Aarts is up to it and Rioli has certainly lost something, he is just not very effective at the moment. I know there has been a strategy of contest the ball up forward, lock it in, massive pressure and the smalls contribute some goals. None of this was in evidence tonight, and I would have to say it has been missing in a fair few of our games. Against Carlton our small forwards never seemed to be in the right spot when the ball came off the pack and the same goes for the games against Sydney and tonight. Add to that the fact that when we are playing well the tall forwards also take some marks and kick goals. Nothing was working up forward, as reflected in the stat that we scored 30% of the times we got it inside 50. Plus, the ease with which Melbourne were able to get it out of our 50 with a chain of uncontested possessions was something we just can't let happen, and this wasn't the only game we have let it happen - I really can't see that the new rules are to blame for this - we seem to be losing the ground ball up forward and need to address this.
Our defence wasn't great but the fact they only scored 39% of the times they got it inside 50 indicates it also wasn't that bad.
We were close on clearances too so that wasn't too bad.
What we really need now is a big effort next week. Make no mistake, Footscray are genuinely good. But we have turned things around before and now is the chance for a few young players to shine.
I think we need to seriously think about dropping both Aarts and Rioli, they really are not contributing much at the moment. Maybe the role Rioli plays is not so relevant with the changes to the game, maybe he needs to be given a different role - less closing down space and more creating opportunities to score. In any case, closing space is of little help when the opposition are clearing it with a series of short possessions along the boundary - all very good to block the corridor but doing so means we have players in the corridor and get outnumbered along the boundary. I would also get another tall forward. We probably don't need the third tall there all the time so it is a perfect opportunity to give CCJ a go as second ruck and forward the rest of the time. Lynch needs to lead more and run around more so he isn't double teamed all the time - I think his lack of run makes it too easy to have a couple of defenders hanging off him all the time.
The centre is also a question. I would get RCD in for a debut, not sure if he has any speed but we certainly need more speed in the middle.
We will be a better team with Prestia and Vlastuin back. Dustin needs a break, send him on a holiday to New Zealand to visit his dad, he needs a bit of a recharge. We will need Lambert back ASAP too, hope the calf isn't too bad.
I think the hunger is still there, but we are off the pace at the moment. Need to pick it up, but look at our draw and we have a decent run in the back half of the season so we can time a big run into the finals and be a decent chance to contend.
A last couple of observations.
The umpiring was predictably woeful. Gross inconsistency in the holding the man/ball interpretations. Some appalling decisions relating to whether a kick had or had not gone 15 metres. Plenty of throws missed, this truly is a blight on the game. If the AFL wants to allow throwing then they can go and re-form the VFA and f*** off quite frankly - enforce the bloody rules.
22nd man beat me to it, but Melbourne should really be very disappointed in that crowd. 56,000 was pathetic and I reckon half the crowd were Richmond. They were 5-0 and playing the reigning premiers and still didn't turn up in numbers. They can blame COVID or the weather but in reality it was just pathetic. There should have been at least 70,000 there tonight and the Melbourne supporters should have clearly outnumbered us at their own home game. No idea how many (few) members they have but Melbourne supporters are looking like their own stereotype of heartless supporters who aren't even fair weather supporters since they didn't even turn up tonight. Their heart beats true? Really? They are a club without a heart and they may have fixed the culture amongst the playing group but they have a hell of a lot of work to get a culture amongst their supporter base.
DS
We looked just a bit off tonight. Being down a rotation would not have helped but even ignoring that factor we were a bit off.
That said, Melbourne were good. They are a genuinely good team and are playing good footy. We'll see how long they can maintain it and how well they would go against us at full strength and in better form. But they are looking like they deserve to make finals and contend for top 4.
To my eyes our biggest issue tonight was entries into forward 50. We had more inside 50s than Melbourne yet we lost badly. The smalls in our forward line are not playing well. Castagna has been decent this year but I don't think Aarts is up to it and Rioli has certainly lost something, he is just not very effective at the moment. I know there has been a strategy of contest the ball up forward, lock it in, massive pressure and the smalls contribute some goals. None of this was in evidence tonight, and I would have to say it has been missing in a fair few of our games. Against Carlton our small forwards never seemed to be in the right spot when the ball came off the pack and the same goes for the games against Sydney and tonight. Add to that the fact that when we are playing well the tall forwards also take some marks and kick goals. Nothing was working up forward, as reflected in the stat that we scored 30% of the times we got it inside 50. Plus, the ease with which Melbourne were able to get it out of our 50 with a chain of uncontested possessions was something we just can't let happen, and this wasn't the only game we have let it happen - I really can't see that the new rules are to blame for this - we seem to be losing the ground ball up forward and need to address this.
Our defence wasn't great but the fact they only scored 39% of the times they got it inside 50 indicates it also wasn't that bad.
We were close on clearances too so that wasn't too bad.
What we really need now is a big effort next week. Make no mistake, Footscray are genuinely good. But we have turned things around before and now is the chance for a few young players to shine.
I think we need to seriously think about dropping both Aarts and Rioli, they really are not contributing much at the moment. Maybe the role Rioli plays is not so relevant with the changes to the game, maybe he needs to be given a different role - less closing down space and more creating opportunities to score. In any case, closing space is of little help when the opposition are clearing it with a series of short possessions along the boundary - all very good to block the corridor but doing so means we have players in the corridor and get outnumbered along the boundary. I would also get another tall forward. We probably don't need the third tall there all the time so it is a perfect opportunity to give CCJ a go as second ruck and forward the rest of the time. Lynch needs to lead more and run around more so he isn't double teamed all the time - I think his lack of run makes it too easy to have a couple of defenders hanging off him all the time.
The centre is also a question. I would get RCD in for a debut, not sure if he has any speed but we certainly need more speed in the middle.
We will be a better team with Prestia and Vlastuin back. Dustin needs a break, send him on a holiday to New Zealand to visit his dad, he needs a bit of a recharge. We will need Lambert back ASAP too, hope the calf isn't too bad.
I think the hunger is still there, but we are off the pace at the moment. Need to pick it up, but look at our draw and we have a decent run in the back half of the season so we can time a big run into the finals and be a decent chance to contend.
A last couple of observations.
The umpiring was predictably woeful. Gross inconsistency in the holding the man/ball interpretations. Some appalling decisions relating to whether a kick had or had not gone 15 metres. Plenty of throws missed, this truly is a blight on the game. If the AFL wants to allow throwing then they can go and re-form the VFA and f*** off quite frankly - enforce the bloody rules.
22nd man beat me to it, but Melbourne should really be very disappointed in that crowd. 56,000 was pathetic and I reckon half the crowd were Richmond. They were 5-0 and playing the reigning premiers and still didn't turn up in numbers. They can blame COVID or the weather but in reality it was just pathetic. There should have been at least 70,000 there tonight and the Melbourne supporters should have clearly outnumbered us at their own home game. No idea how many (few) members they have but Melbourne supporters are looking like their own stereotype of heartless supporters who aren't even fair weather supporters since they didn't even turn up tonight. Their heart beats true? Really? They are a club without a heart and they may have fixed the culture amongst the playing group but they have a hell of a lot of work to get a culture amongst their supporter base.
DS
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Best summary of a game that I have seen this year!1
i agree with all that you have said, and i think that we are not getting enough from Lynch. Swap for CCJ ?
Nah. Lynch kept us in the season in 2019 when Jack did his PCL.
I’ll always have time for Tom after that Herculean effort. Kept our forward line together.
Folks, I’m not not gonna trot out the “we’re not interested in April” line, because whilst it is generally true for us, there is an area of concern at the moment - forward line connection and efficiency.
The system is fine. Forget about missing Vlastuin, or whether we need more speed or a better rotation in the guts.
We are falling down in our inability to ground the F50 aerial ball to our advantage, plain and simple.
To compound matters, we lost a ton of F50 IQ tonight in Lambo and Martin.
What I would do is fairly simple - bring CCJ, MRJ *and* Caddy into the team in what would be a forward line makeover. Give Jack licence to roam higher and play Bolton as a first tier mid.
Most importantly, George and Dan cannot get drawn too high - they need to stay deep to maintain the speed and spark in our F50.
Riewoldt Coleman-Jones Rioli
Caddy Lynch Castagna
Out: Lambert, Martin, Aarts
In: Coleman-Jones, Caddy, MRJ
With MRJ rotating through when CCJ moves up the ground to relieve Nank, this would separate the fragile Doggies defence and cause them a multitude of problems.
Dimma said it himself - the system is fine, the effort is fine. What’s needed is a change in structure.
He also said we are a “forward looking club”.
Expect MRJ, and a new forward line, next week.
The system is fine. Forget about missing Vlastuin, or whether we need more speed or a better rotation in the guts.
We are falling down in our inability to ground the F50 aerial ball to our advantage, plain and simple.
To compound matters, we lost a ton of F50 IQ tonight in Lambo and Martin.
What I would do is fairly simple - bring CCJ, MRJ *and* Caddy into the team in what would be a forward line makeover. Give Jack licence to roam higher and play Bolton as a first tier mid.
Most importantly, George and Dan cannot get drawn too high - they need to stay deep to maintain the speed and spark in our F50.
Riewoldt Coleman-Jones Rioli
Caddy Lynch Castagna
Out: Lambert, Martin, Aarts
In: Coleman-Jones, Caddy, MRJ
With MRJ rotating through when CCJ moves up the ground to relieve Nank, this would separate the fragile Doggies defence and cause them a multitude of problems.
Dimma said it himself - the system is fine, the effort is fine. What’s needed is a change in structure.
He also said we are a “forward looking club”.
Expect MRJ, and a new forward line, next week.
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Not overly concerned unless we loose the next two. It seems that Port, Melb and Bulldogs are a bit like us in 2018 - they are spending a lot of tickets pretty early in the year. Lets wait and see how we are at end of next month...... Sure it would be nice to have won a few others but losses to Port and Melb who are pretty handy this year is no disgrace. Plenty of time left.
I think it’ll be difficult for us to finish top 4.
The problem is Melbourne and Footscray have probably already locked away top 4 berths. WC, Port and Geelong have solid home ground advantages.
We will settle and win enough to finish 5-6 I reckon. Last year’s narrative of playing four finals will give us belief that anything can happen from there.
The problem is Melbourne and Footscray have probably already locked away top 4 berths. WC, Port and Geelong have solid home ground advantages.
We will settle and win enough to finish 5-6 I reckon. Last year’s narrative of playing four finals will give us belief that anything can happen from there.
One last thing before I retire for the night - there’ll be no dropping Lynch. He takes the best defender and next week we have a chance to expose Footscray’s flaky defence. Tom hasn’t been at his best but will come good with better structure around him.
Did u actually watch the VFL? Caddy was worst on ground, gave away multiple stupid free kicks and 50s and struts around like a flog. Be lucky if he isn’t sacked next week. No chance of playing seniors
It’s the *smile* game plan. We continue to play one short in the forward line and then just bomb it in. Dimma needs to pull his head out of his ass and fix the blinding obvious
Some one-eyed observations to start. *smile* the umpires. Seriously. K-Mac gets mauled to the ground without the footy and then dragged down in full view in the 1st. Play on. *smile* that. Balta gives a Melbourne player a tap but he knows the ump is there so goes down like a sack of spuds. *smile* me drunk! I know it's silly but it wasn't worth that. Pickett (Melb) elbows Baker in the head, TWICE, and then Pickett gets the free! Jesus Mary and Joseph what the *smile* is going on?!
Okay so that said. I still think Aarts is unfairly maligned. Worked hard and laid tackles and made the most of a pretty poor showing. Not even our worst small forward let alone worst player. Stays. Pickett is growing on me and he too was "unlucky" to give that goal away. Balta looks a bit lost. He is loose structurally. Not getting to the right spots at the right time (a lot of that going on in fact). He could be anything but he looks like he doesn't know when to take up space and when to make aggressive runs off the half back. Vlas missing and Grimes probably injured might be hurting him. When Vlas comes back it might be time for him to drop back to the magoos and reset.
I might have to watch it again to understand but Dimma should certainly be able to analyse it. Something changed with about 10mins to go in the 1st quarter. We had them on toast. Quick ball movement, Jack off the leash, Baker dashing, etc. Then it all stopped. What adjustment did Melbourne make? Why weren't we able to counter it? Lever seemed to be able to do what he liked and our "team defence" was full of holes. Melbourne were able to bring it out of our forward fifty with run and handballs. With Rioli, Aarts, Castagna in the team and Jack too, that just shouldn't happen. Sheds was always a beast with his tackling, where has that gone? Ditto Rioli.
Also, lots of hail Mary kicks into the corridor in the 2nd half rather than clever 45s that go to the advantage of Sheds, Martin, Bolton. It looked like that was Melbourne's pressure but it's been happening more this year. Like our system is actually breaking down.
But Bolton, Baker, Pickett can walk tall. Nank gave it everything but had his colour lowered. Backline was solid but not amazing. Jack and Lynch worked hard.
Also the coverage never explained how Dusty could have a concussion nor what happened to Grimes?
Okay so that said. I still think Aarts is unfairly maligned. Worked hard and laid tackles and made the most of a pretty poor showing. Not even our worst small forward let alone worst player. Stays. Pickett is growing on me and he too was "unlucky" to give that goal away. Balta looks a bit lost. He is loose structurally. Not getting to the right spots at the right time (a lot of that going on in fact). He could be anything but he looks like he doesn't know when to take up space and when to make aggressive runs off the half back. Vlas missing and Grimes probably injured might be hurting him. When Vlas comes back it might be time for him to drop back to the magoos and reset.
I might have to watch it again to understand but Dimma should certainly be able to analyse it. Something changed with about 10mins to go in the 1st quarter. We had them on toast. Quick ball movement, Jack off the leash, Baker dashing, etc. Then it all stopped. What adjustment did Melbourne make? Why weren't we able to counter it? Lever seemed to be able to do what he liked and our "team defence" was full of holes. Melbourne were able to bring it out of our forward fifty with run and handballs. With Rioli, Aarts, Castagna in the team and Jack too, that just shouldn't happen. Sheds was always a beast with his tackling, where has that gone? Ditto Rioli.
Also, lots of hail Mary kicks into the corridor in the 2nd half rather than clever 45s that go to the advantage of Sheds, Martin, Bolton. It looked like that was Melbourne's pressure but it's been happening more this year. Like our system is actually breaking down.
But Bolton, Baker, Pickett can walk tall. Nank gave it everything but had his colour lowered. Backline was solid but not amazing. Jack and Lynch worked hard.
Also the coverage never explained how Dusty could have a concussion nor what happened to Grimes?
ive got it in perspective in the light of day.
Tigers played disjointed and *smile*. worked our arses of for 15 points,
then Melbourne clicked.
they got gifted 2 goals by the umps, $hai missed 2 sodas at important times
we should have lost by 2 goals.
Tigers played disjointed and *smile*. worked our arses of for 15 points,
then Melbourne clicked.
they got gifted 2 goals by the umps, $hai missed 2 sodas at important times
we should have lost by 2 goals.
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Well that should have been an absolute flogging last night. But somehow it wasn't.
We got mugged n beat up all over the park n were somehow competitive for scoring shots virtually all game.
Lamblett n Dusty both played ordinary in the first half, out injured pretty much all the second half, then we lost the Grub late in the game as well. Which seriously compounds the fact that Flossy n Meatball are already out of the side n will remain out for a while yet.
Halfway through the last qtr we were down by over 100 possessions for the game yet had 18 scoring shots to their 20, we just failed miserably to convert a bunch of simple set shots that would have kept us right up Smelbourne's clacker all night long.
Nank played a mighty game of beast mode n was easily our best player, might not be the best ruck in the comp but gives us a heap of bloody honest contested footy wherever he goes.
Fish n Shai ( should've had 3 or 4 sausages ) were also very good for us, Shedda n Jaaack an honourable mention on a night when most of our team were bog average.
Smelbourne at full blast play a lot of similar footy to us over the last four years, not sure if they can keep that kind of hunger n intensity up all year. They played a big ego strutting grand final night last night n their fans ( those that bothered to attend ) loved it
. Got me a funny feeling that Smelbourne's ego boys might get in the way of them doing much late in the season, they had a fair bunch were very very happy with themselves long before the game was over.
Team needs a little bit of tweaking n refresh at the moment, injury hit will force a few games into some wannabe's, bloody unfortunate that the Maggos players decided to stink up their game as well yesterday.
Hoping like hell we use all our draft picks end of this year to refresh the list, Cotch has been playing some tired old man footy this year n Bash has too. Can't really see Cadds coming back to seniors n giving us much, plus I reckon Jaaack n perhaps Assa will be maybe at most one more year n cooked, so there's serious vacancies coming up.
Poor young Nigel can't take a trick at the moment, gunna be his second game of " No pay for you." Apart from an empty wallet, I don't mind that he takes no *smile* from anyone. Reckon the AFL Honchos won't need to be worrying about the budget for their end of season *smile* up, the Melee last night will nicely cover the cost.
Last little thought. The bye before the finals makes it way more possible for a side to play four finals and win the flag. Doggies have done it, got just enough time to get some crucial injured players back into the team.
We've done it, got the extra game which enabled us to get a touch of form into players who's season had been interrupted.
Any side that's fit and firing come finals time can do the four games n win it from anywhere within the eight, it might even be easier than having the double break.
We got mugged n beat up all over the park n were somehow competitive for scoring shots virtually all game.
Lamblett n Dusty both played ordinary in the first half, out injured pretty much all the second half, then we lost the Grub late in the game as well. Which seriously compounds the fact that Flossy n Meatball are already out of the side n will remain out for a while yet.
Halfway through the last qtr we were down by over 100 possessions for the game yet had 18 scoring shots to their 20, we just failed miserably to convert a bunch of simple set shots that would have kept us right up Smelbourne's clacker all night long.
Nank played a mighty game of beast mode n was easily our best player, might not be the best ruck in the comp but gives us a heap of bloody honest contested footy wherever he goes.
Fish n Shai ( should've had 3 or 4 sausages ) were also very good for us, Shedda n Jaaack an honourable mention on a night when most of our team were bog average.
Smelbourne at full blast play a lot of similar footy to us over the last four years, not sure if they can keep that kind of hunger n intensity up all year. They played a big ego strutting grand final night last night n their fans ( those that bothered to attend ) loved it
. Got me a funny feeling that Smelbourne's ego boys might get in the way of them doing much late in the season, they had a fair bunch were very very happy with themselves long before the game was over.Team needs a little bit of tweaking n refresh at the moment, injury hit will force a few games into some wannabe's, bloody unfortunate that the Maggos players decided to stink up their game as well yesterday.
Hoping like hell we use all our draft picks end of this year to refresh the list, Cotch has been playing some tired old man footy this year n Bash has too. Can't really see Cadds coming back to seniors n giving us much, plus I reckon Jaaack n perhaps Assa will be maybe at most one more year n cooked, so there's serious vacancies coming up.
Poor young Nigel can't take a trick at the moment, gunna be his second game of " No pay for you." Apart from an empty wallet, I don't mind that he takes no *smile* from anyone. Reckon the AFL Honchos won't need to be worrying about the budget for their end of season *smile* up, the Melee last night will nicely cover the cost.
Last little thought. The bye before the finals makes it way more possible for a side to play four finals and win the flag. Doggies have done it, got just enough time to get some crucial injured players back into the team.
We've done it, got the extra game which enabled us to get a touch of form into players who's season had been interrupted.
Any side that's fit and firing come finals time can do the four games n win it from anywhere within the eight, it might even be easier than having the double break.
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No way i was missing 1st Port Melbourne home game im a paid up member and what a win 22 points down at half time belted down with rain 9 goals to 1 in the 2nd half Won running away
What's the go with the guard of honour for Nathan Jones? Yes I know I'm a bad sport, but I don't rate him as a footballer or a bloke. Also thought it was a pisser when he turned around to maybe thank the Tiges players for it, they had gone, Bakes the first.
I would love to know our win/loss ratio coming off an extended break. Gut feel says we don’t perform well off a 7+ break between games.
IMO it's the quality of inside 50's, too many times we lacked imagination and kicked to a 1 on 3 or tried to nail the impossible pass. Melbourne set up a lot of their scores through Salem, they did a good job of holding their back 6 while our half forwards pushed up. I think that what teams may have figured out is that a number of our guys (Cotchin, Graham, Lambert, Aarts, Castagna and an out of form Rioli) lack penetration in their kicking. Any possession we have 60-80 meters out from goal will be kicked to Lynch or Jack who are double teamed. The defense can limit their coverage to those two knowing that a lot of our players will either try and pass because they are unselfish or can't nail a goal from 50 out.
Impressions from the game:
We are not working hard enough through the center of the ground, need one more pass or handball to break the 50 and get deeper entries/shots on goal to extend the defence.
Need to be more creative and a lot of that responsibility now rests with Edwards and Bolton. The 1st quarter we were all over them because we were breaking the fwd. 50.
Need a threat who has to be manned up outside fwd 50. Currently our 2 most penetrating kicks are Balta and Short. I would consider conceding we need a 2nd ruck, play Balta as a forward/ruckman and look at Miller or Garthwaite or even CCJ to do a job in defence.
Potentially move Short to play a defensive forward role. Either way we have to stop defenses sagging off their opponents to our 2 big guys and we have to be less predictable.
Petracca 38, Oliver 36, Langdon 32, Viney 26, Brayshaw 26. They killed us on the spread. They were getting easy ball in the corridor leading to easy goals. The worry is we had our pressure game on and after the first 15 minutes they blew it away. In history Dees would have crumbled, instead we did. Wont get easier with injuries and the inevitable blooding of younger players. Next week without Dusty, Prestia, Lambert, it could get messy.
