'08 Wallace mantra - Flexibility and defensive efforts | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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'08 Wallace mantra - Flexibility and defensive efforts

Tigers of Old

Tigers of Old

30.09.2017
Jul 26, 2004
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In looking through our current side and thinking more about the Joel Bowden omission this week, it has become apparent that TW attempting to buid a side based on the premise of this thread.

He's obviously after players who can fulfill two of these things.

- Be flexible ie play in any number of positions and or roles.

- Have a defensive half to your game as well as a good skill set ie well rounded footballers.


Looking at some of the guys that some seem to think should be getting a game they don't have one or the other of these aspects.

Bowden (Somewhat one dimensional other than a HBF and has questionable defensive capabilities - LMID)

Hughes (Somewhat one dimensional other than a sporadic CHF and has questionable defensive capabilities up forward)

Petiffer (Somewhat one dimensional other than a HFF and questionable defensive capabilities up forward)

When you look through the players in our 22 atm there are many that excel in both these areas.
I may be wrong but these two criteria seem to have been high priority on Wallace's check list in '08.
 
fair observation ToO, leysy's startin to have too many scotches to comment any further...hic..
 
Tigers of Old said:
In looking through our current side and thinking more about the Joel Bowden omission this week, it has become apparent that TW attempting to buid a side based on the premise of this thread.

He's obviously after players who can fulfill two of these things.

- Be flexible ie play in any number of positions and or roles.

- Have a defensive half to your game as well as a good skill set ie well rounded footballers.


Looking at some of the guys that some seem to think should be getting a game they don't have one or the other of these aspects.

Bowden (Somewhat one dimensional other than a HBF and has questionable defensive capabilities - LMID)

Hughes (Somewhat one dimensional other than a sporadic CHF and has questionable defensive capabilities up forward)

Petiffer (Somewhat one dimensional other than a HFF and questionable defensive capabilities up forward)

When you look through the players in our 22 atm there are many that excel in both these areas.
I may be wrong but these two criteria seem to have been high priority on Wallace's check list in '08.
Click to expand...

Some truth to that Too, particularly why White is being proffered over Petts and Tivva (long may it continue!). But why is Jack getting a game ahead of Petts and Hughes when they are play roughly the same game? I don't think Jack is that much of an upgrade defensively. I think it is partially because Jack is just a darn creative footballer, gets a lot of goal assists and a better shot for goal than those two.

The other big thing here is speed, Terry has always wanted to play fast people football, pick up Jordy has given him another release man in the back line which means he didn't have to keep Joel's treacle like foot speed in the backline anymore. I'd be watching my back if I was Newman.

Jack for Petts is like for like in the speed stakes, but at least Jack is 190+ so gives a stronger contest.
 
Did anyone see that Team show on Foxfooty last night? They said (something like) before Terry dropped Joel he commented about not having players in the team with no defensive side...and they named the 2 worst culprits that week as Richo and Browny. I think they were the only 2 in the team without a tackle? Then again I think it was Tony Shaw and he's full of it.

Joel can be as flexible as anyone given the chance, but he's been used as a key defender to cover our deficiencies. By the sounds of it Kayne hasn't improved the defensive side of his game at Coburg yet he's an emergency this week.

I hope Terry is designing a team of players who sacrifice their own glory at times, doing the "team" things and never giving an opponent an easy moment. I can't wait to see the new kids stake their claim on a regular basis.
 
Just Tony nitpicking rosy...I believe Thursty didn't lay a tackle in that game against the Collingwood either (if that is the game he was referring to). He is just looking at one thing in isolation to justify his petty vendetta against the Tiges, it's big picture Tony. Richo & Browny vs Tivva & Bowdo - it's like chalk and cheese. It's not just the non tackling that got JB and co punted from the side
 
Tigers of Old said:
In looking through our current side and thinking more about the Joel Bowden omission this week, it has become apparent that TW attempting to buid a side based on the premise of this thread.

He's obviously after players who can fulfill two of these things.

- Be flexible ie play in any number of positions and or roles.

- Have a defensive half to your game as well as a good skill set ie well rounded footballers.


Looking at some of the guys that some seem to think should be getting a game they don't have one or the other of these aspects.

Bowden (Somewhat one dimensional other than a HBF and has questionable defensive capabilities - LMID)

Hughes (Somewhat one dimensional other than a sporadic CHF and has questionable defensive capabilities up forward)

Petiffer (Somewhat one dimensional other than a HFF and questionable defensive capabilities up forward)

When you look through the players in our 22 atm there are many that excel in both these areas.
I may be wrong but these two criteria seem to have been high priority on Wallace's check list in '08.
Click to expand...

Good post and does have some truths however bit harsh to throw Cleve in this category. Hes hardly been given a chance really.
 
tigersforever06 said:
Good post and does have some truths however bit harsh to throw Cleve in this category. Hes hardly been given a chance really.
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Because he doesn't deserve it!!!!
 
The key term "one-dimensional" hits the nail on the head in more than the examples mentioned ToO.
The "one-dimensional" debate has been around at Richmond long before Wallace arrived;
Take a look at the numerous left footers we once showcased in the Herald Sun before an Essendon game in 2001;
Someone close to me remembers me stating Richmond's playing list was far too "one-dimensional" in 2002, not so much in the lack of position flexibility, but, the style of game most players were capable of playing;
Classic examples of this are found in players such as Pettifer: where the ball needs to sit properly for him to have any chance of using it;
Again, Tivendale: needs the right amount of space around him to win clean possession and be damaging;
These are just two examples, but there are numerous others - too many to state here;

IMO, it's not that these players are "one-dimensional" purely on the limitation of position roles, but more to do with the style the like to play their football.
 
rosy23 said:
Joel can be as flexible as anyone given the chance, but he's been used as a key defender to cover our deficiencies.
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Sure rosy Joel fulfilled those roles quite admirably but it was only because we had zero structure in our side that he was even asked to play on the likes of J Brown etc.
He was never, ever a KPD and the hard facts are that as a side we were hopeless when he was being asked to plug such gaping holes.
Poor list management and recruiting made him somewhat of a sacrificial lamb and it took him out of his comfort zone.
As we are beginning to now see it was only a matter of time when someone bigger, stronger and faster replaced him in those key defensive positions.
Once he was no longer needed there he was homeless because TW had been trying everyone he could to replace Bowdo in that LMID role.
Joel, almost 4 years on from where he played his best football was suddenly left homeless.
How flexible is he now? We have many more younger options waiting at the door.

tigersforever06 said:
Good post and does have some truths however bit harsh to throw Cleve in this category. Hes hardly been given a chance really.
Click to expand...

Two way footballers.
Is Cleve Hughes a pimple on J Brown's backside re his defensive game up forward?
Certainly not from what we have seen yet.
If he works hard on this part of his game he'll get promoted.
He's also got to show he can play as more than just a forward IMO if he's to fall into Terry's plans.

Skills said:
IMO, it's not that these players are "one-dimensional" purely on the limitation of position roles, but more to do with the style the like to play their football.
Click to expand...

I see your point but that's not really where I was going with this thread.
I think Terry is looking to build a team of utilities.

- Key position players who can play forward and back.

- Mids & forwards who have a defensive side to their game.

- Defenders who can also attack.
 
sorry to say it but if this is the case , why in god's holy name is chris hyde getting a game over daniel connors and daniel jackson who both not only have decent skills but also know the defensive side of the game ( as well as having a bit of mongrel in them?? )
 
Because as has been said quite a few times now Connors is unfit and lately hasn't been doing the team things from all reports and Jackson is simply not up to it skill and decision making wise.
 
IanG said:
Because as has been said quite a few times now Connors is unfit and lately hasn't been doing the team things from all reports and Jackson is simply not up to it skill and decision making wise.
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what is wrong with jacko's skills Ian?
 
BIGNIGE said:
sorry to say it but if this is the case , why in god's holy name is chris hyde getting a game over daniel connors and daniel jackson who both not only have decent skills but also know the defensive side of the game ( as well as having a bit of mongrel in them?? )
Click to expand...

Didn't appreciate his stopping jobs on Cross & Bateman the past fortnight?
Add this to his 3 goals against Freo the week before and Hyde has shown different sides to his game.
Sure he might be replaced at some point but right now he's doing what's being asked of him.
 
MrRuss said:
Because he doesn't deserve it!!!!
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I disagree with this. Has shown plenty at reserve level, and in the 2 games at senior level this year was not afraid to get his hands dirty. Needs an extended run to prove himself.
 
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