2006 - The year of the Knob

[Phar Ace]

Here is one for the purests:

Does a ruckman make his midfielders look good, or do the midfielders make the ruckman look good?

I contend (sorry General ) that it is latter in Knobel's case at least. But I give Knobel top marks though over someone like Ottens, cos Brad would go to ground too often after a ruck contest - on his hands an knees and force yet another ball up, while on the other hand the big Knob at least stays on his feet and shepherds, bumps and generally gets in the way of the opposition.

The roving Ruck suits Simmo - it gets him into the tempo of a game, so a 60/25% ruck split look likely, with Staff getting the rest of the time (except when Staff has to break Spider's jaw again of course )

 

[Bill James]

See any guys by the name of Simmonds and Stafford in those stats Chinese Takeaway.  I think both of them could hold down number one ruck at the Saints pretty easily

First of all, Kosi is our number one ruckman, and Ackland is number two. So this is comparing Stafford to our second ruck.

Ackland v Stafford

23 Age 31
196 cm Height 203 cm
96 kg Weight 105 kg
22 2005 Games 15
11.0 Disposals 6.9
6.5 Kicks 4.4
2.7 Long Kicks 1.2
3.4 Marks 2.9
0.4 Contested Marks 0.9
4.6 Handballs 2.5
1.4 Tackles 1.1
0.5 Goals 1.1
0 Behinds 0.6
1.7 Frees For 0.9
1.2 Frees Against 0.9
12.0 Hitouts 5.1
3.2 First Possessions 1.2
2.3 Clearances 0.8
2.5 Inside 50s 0.9
0.3 Rebound 50s 0.2
2.3 Contested Possessions 1.7
7.8 Uncontested Possessions 4.2
2.5 1%ers 1.5
2.5 Errors 2.1
0.1 Bounces 0

No way in hell would Stafford be our number two ruck ahead of Ackland. However, I'm sure Simmonds would be a regular, as we tried to get him from Freo for Black. Although Kosi would still be number one, he averages more marks, more disposals, way more tackles and 1%ers, and only one less hitout, as well as being younger and more damaging.

Even Staff get injured less than the Koz.

Actually in the last 3 years Kos has played 47 games and Stafford has play 45.

You miss the point that Knobs stats are down because we have two others taking the load not one, in fact three if you count Hall taking some games in the ruck.

Re your comparison, you are right Ackland is your second ruck Staff is our third. He spent more time on the bench and in the forward line than Ackland which is why he kicked more goals and took more contested marks.

Re-games played by Staff v Koz, Staff has missed a few through suspension. Koz keeps getting smashed because he is a KPP being forced to play in the ruck which cost the Saints dearly last year when they needed a big body to smash rather than get smashed.

You can debate it all you like but the Saints might have got a flag last year for the sake of few bucks on the Knob.

 

[the claw]

give me kositchke anyday over knobel simmonds and stafford.
imo kosi is being wasted in the ruck he should be playing chf and doing a bit of pinch hitting in the ruck when circumstances demand it.to a degree thomas has been forced to play kosi in the ruck because knobel has not been adequately replaced.

 

[TigerMasochist]

give me kositchke anyday over knobel simmonds and stafford.
imo kosi is being wasted in the ruck he should be playing chf and doing a bit of pinch hitting in the ruck when circumstances demand it.to a degree thomas has been forced to play kosi in the ruck because knobel has not been adequately replaced.

Reckon anyone would take Kosi as a player over our three current ruckmen, the trouble the aints have is they are destroying a quality players career by constantly putting him into a demolition derby situation in the ruck.
At least a coach like Sheedy has the nous to realise that elite players like a Hird or Wanganeen don't have the body size to constantly get smashed and readjusts the way he uses them to try and maximise their careers.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Hey MSG...........They have brought back Futurama!

No, I mean start making new episodes. Fox cancelled it in 2002 after season four, now ten are just showing repeats.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Actually in the last 3 years Kos has played 47 games and Stafford has play 45.

How many of the games missed has Stafford had through suspension? I'd have guessed it was more than kozi - but not an informed guess.

Secondly, one thing that is a limitation to ALL statistics in the AFL is the lack of a "played time" or "time on field" stat. While Ackland's stats appear to be superior to Staff (Likewise comparing Knobel to anyone), without having a record of time spent on the ground, it does become a bit grey. I'd have thought that Knobel spent a lot less time on the ground for us last year than he did the year before for the saints - simply because we have more options.

As for the contract that GT put on the table for Knobel, it was just a few thousand over minimum wage - which I can understand when he has so few disposals/marks. However, it undervalued the other things he provided, Knobel knew it and rejected the offer. The guy wasn't seeking 300k per year, he's not a person of low intellect, and would understand that anything of that magnitude would be for impact players, not tap ruckman who have minimal impact outside.

I'm sure Knobel just wanted a fair and reasonable offer, not superstar wages. Anyone who think's otherwise probably needs to plant their feet back on the ground.

I'm not sure how many games Stafford has missed through suspension, I know he missed three when he kneed Jason Blake in the back and cracked a vertebrea, but Kosi has missed three in the past two years, so it couldn't be too many more.

And yes I realise that Stafford would've spent quite a bit of time on the bench, but Ackland also spent about 5-10 minutes per quater on the bench, and he often played forward for about 30 minutes, so its not like he was rucking the entire game.

I'm also sure Knobel wasn't looking for a huge contract, but he did want a 2-3 year contract that was well over what he was previously earning, and the main thing that made him want to go to another club was GT told him he wasn't a key part of our future plans, and wouldn't play alot of games or get much game time, so he left and tried to go to Carlton, who had terrible ruck stocks and would let him play the entire game.

 

[interested]

Actually MSG - Fox have started making new Futurama episodes due to the large DVD sales.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Actually MSG - Fox have started making new Futurama episodes due to the large DVD sales.

WHAT?????

You might be thinking of the straight to dvd movie they're gonna start making...I haven't heard about any episodes being made.

 

[interested]

It was in the Green Guide

 

[interested]

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,18076,00.html?tnews
This article suggests they are trying to get it back.
I've been told its moved further than that.

BUT lets not hijack The General's very good post.