2016 Draft | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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2016 Draft

spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
15,923
11,218
Melbourne
Harry said:
Ah ok. Bris weren't interested in Taranto?
Taranto probably only went #2 because McGrath went #1. If Essendon took McCluggage, GWS would have taken McGrath, and Brisbane Ainsworth.
 

TigerPort

Tiger Superstar
Jun 29, 2006
1,883
1,284
NSW
It was a strategy thing from GWS moving from 3 to 2 in the draft order.

Staying at 3 left Brisbane open to bid on one of the GWS academy kids and GWS would have had to use pick 3. By moving they got two top end kids.

GWS are playing the game very well......although they were given a 25m head start in a 100m race
 

Maxwell

Tiger Matchwinner
Jul 23, 2003
975
24
Melbourne
TigerPort said:
It was a strategy thing from GWS moving from 3 to 2 in the draft order.

Staying at 3 left Brisbane open to bid on one of the GWS academy kids and GWS would have had to use pick 3. By moving they got two top end kids.

GWS are playing the game very well......although they were given a 25m head start in a 100m race

Don't worry there was another part o f the agreement about not bidding on GWS academy player (I hear this happened with a number of clubs in trade week).
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
19,698
2,865
Quote from Emma quayle in her draft wrap"

"The Giants started with picks 2, 15, 37, 39, 45 and 52. They became 2, 5, 14, 20, 54 and 58 after bids for their academy players were made and matched."

Its a rort. Other sides battle away trading trying to upgrade picks and improve their posi, GWS get heaps of picks anyway with their surplus of guns, then they upgrade them at will. Pick 5 appears from thin air. 14 up to 15. 37 and 39 for 20.

adjustment of 45 and 52 for 54 and 58, which they probably didn't use anyway so its meaningless like the 10 and 5 cent bits on the floor of your car. (edit, checked, they did use the last picks, but they would have got De Boer with any late pick so meaningless, and a player at 54 v 45 or 52 is a raffle and hardly going to have any structural impact, so the loose change point stands)

Its total *smile*, a double armchair ride.
 

footballmonk

Tiger Matchwinner
Oct 7, 2008
625
251
Yep, GWS managed to move forward by a total of 52 picks in return for a slide of 15 of their later picks. I don't really understand how this can happen as that's obviously a lot more than the 20% discount they get for academy kids. I was fully expecting them to have to take the last couple of picks in the draft at 75+, but instead their downgraded picks were still higher than the 3rd pick we took.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
23,010
8,293
It's a joke and surprised other clubs aren't making more noise. Where's Eddie to take up the battle for the Vic clubs coz our president doesn't really give a stuff let alone know what's going on.
 

WesternTiger

Tiger Legend
Nov 7, 2004
13,434
1,331
Harry said:
It's a joke and surprised other clubs aren't making more noise. Where's Eddie to take up the battle for the Vic clubs coz our president doesn't really give a stuff let alone know what's going on.

To busy trying to find a new head of football...
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
13,436
2,370
footballmonk said:
Yep, GWS managed to move forward by a total of 52 picks in return for a slide of 15 of their later picks. I don't really understand how this can happen as that's obviously a lot more than the 20% discount they get for academy kids. I was fully expecting them to have to take the last couple of picks in the draft at 75+, but instead their downgraded picks were still higher than the 3rd pick we took.

The 25% discount combined with a positive loop effect which drags all their junk picks up the order. For example, Setterfield gets an early bid and they use pick 15, 37 & 39. All their other picks then move up the order by two spots and in turn manufacture more points in the process. Given GWS started with 10 picks this effect can be quite pronounced. The AFL need to scrap the discount, the benefit of having first dibs on a player is more than adequate compensation.
 

footballmonk

Tiger Matchwinner
Oct 7, 2008
625
251
bullus_hit said:
The 25% discount combined with a positive loop effect which drags all their junk picks up the order. For example, Setterfield gets an early bid and they use pick 15, 37 & 39. All their other picks then move up the order by two spots and in turn manufacture more points in the process. Given GWS started with 10 picks this effect can be quite pronounced. The AFL need to scrap the discount, the benefit of having first dibs on a player is more than adequate compensation.

Thanks for explaining, Bully. And thanks for all your draft analysis, always really enjoy reading it.
 

Jonesracing82

Tiger Champion
Sep 30, 2011
3,698
1,809
bullus_hit said:
The 25% discount combined with a positive loop effect which drags all their junk picks up the order. For example, Setterfield gets an early bid and they use pick 15, 37 & 39. All their other picks then move up the order by two spots and in turn manufacture more points in the process. Given GWS started with 10 picks this effect can be quite pronounced. The AFL need to scrap the discount, the benefit of having first dibs on a player is more than adequate compensation.
GWS are effectively double dipping, they basically have thier own "zone" system as used to be in place as well as the open Draft.
before the Draft they had 2 top 15 picks which, ok they traded for so good luck to them.
after bidding etc they end up with 3 inside the top 14!
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
19,698
2,865
Harry said:
4 inside 20.

went from 1 inside top 10 and 2 inside top 20, to 2 inside top 10 and 4 inside top 20, with no real penalty.

Putting aside the concessions already granted and how powerful GWS already are as a result, the system is just out of whack regardless. There are all these complicated values and weightings and discounts, but when you look at what actually happens, how big the 'penalties' are, its a joke. The points weighting must be flawed, and the discount is too high.
 

turk-d-tiger

Welcome to Richmond Football Club - Daniel Rioli
Dec 1, 2007
3,929
1,609
melbourne
bullus_hit said:
The 25% discount combined with a positive loop effect which drags all their junk picks up the order. For example, Setterfield gets an early bid and they use pick 15, 37 & 39. All their other picks then move up the order by two spots and in turn manufacture more points in the process. Given GWS started with 10 picks this effect can be quite pronounced. The AFL need to scrap the discount, the benefit of having first dibs on a player is more than adequate compensation.

The problem is that after the 20% dicount their junk picks value becomes more valuable as they are moved up to cover the bid, If the bid is to come in the 2nd round then their initial 2nd round pick should be used if not available then their following picks should be used as points but the compensationary pick should be put at the back of the draft with no points allocated to them.

But lets hope it happens aftef we get Naish into the club lol
 

Jonesracing82

Tiger Champion
Sep 30, 2011
3,698
1,809
tigersnake said:
went from 1 inside top 10 and 2 inside top 20, to 2 inside top 10 and 4 inside top 20, with no real penalty.

Putting aside the concessions already granted and how powerful GWS already are as a result, the system is just out of whack regardless. There are all these complicated values and weightings and discounts, but when you look at what actually happens, how big the 'penalties' are, its a joke. The points weighting must be flawed, and the discount is too high.
when i have questioned "journo's" on this issue all they say is "without the Academy's the kids would be lost to the game".

this completely avoids the actual issue. no1 has an issue with the Academy's developing these players, it's how they are "distributed" across the competition that is the issue.
for the perfect example of the issue just look at GWS drafting this year & how they got to those pick as they were taken. that is why opposition supporters feel shafted by the system!
 

TOT70

I'm just a suburban boy
Jul 27, 2004
9,443
2,495
Melbourne
The GWS Academy should be in and around Bankstown. That's it. It's purpose is to promote AFL in a barren zone, not to build a super team.

Go to Bankstown, drop a line 10 km in each direction, make it a circle, find an oval near the middle of your circle, letter bomb the neighbourhood, run an Auskick clinic every Saturday for 20 years, find a few Lebanese kids, a couple of Tongans, keep a few Bogan kids off Ice. That is your Academy.

Sorry if that all sounded a bit racist. I guess us elitist, sexist, racist white males have become a bit emboldened lately, given recent World events.
 

Harry

Tiger Legend
Mar 2, 2003
23,010
8,293
If they packaged up picks then how did they get 54 and 58?

Does anyone know how they packaged up their picks?
 

TOT70

I'm just a suburban boy
Jul 27, 2004
9,443
2,495
Melbourne
Harry said:
If they packaged up picks then how did they get 54 and 58?

Does anyone know how they packaged up their picks?

Let's try an example. They needed to match pick 5 for Setterfield. That is 1878 points. They get a 20% discount. After the discount they needed 1502 points. They used picks 13 and 37. That is 1212 and 483 points, adding up to 1695. So they match and have 193 points left over. Pick 56 is worth 194 points, so pick 56 has just materialised for them out of thin air from their leftover points and is slotted in accordingly. Remember how they used 13 and 37 to do it? They have been cancelled so all later picks move forward 2 places. Pick 56 becomes pick 54 and is worth 220, in readiness for their next bid.

So there is pick 54.

Next to the word "rort" in the dictionary, you will soon see a photo of the GWS Academy.

Essendon should have bid on Setterfield. That would have cost them 2400 and it would have cancelled out their ability to match anything else. Carlton should have then bid on Perryman.

In all likelihood, they would not have matched these bids and they would have ended up with just the picks they already had. If they did match, they would have taken the two players and been done for the night until pick 80.

Sadly, clubs only look at it from their own perspective. That's why GWS have become so strong. All the other clubs are happy to trade with them because that us where the best deal is. We saw it with Deledio. Directing him towards GWS got us the best deal.
 

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
19,698
2,865
TOT70 said:
Let's try an example. They needed to match pick 5 for Setterfield. That is 1878 points. They get a 20% discount. After the discount they needed 1502 points. They used picks 13 and 37. That is 1212 and 483 points, adding up to 1695. So they match and have 193 points left over. Pick 56 is worth 194 points, so pick 56 has just materialised for them out of thin air from their leftover points and is slotted in accordingly. Remember how they used 13 and 37 to do it? They have been cancelled so all later picks move forward 2 places. Pick 56 becomes pick 54 and is worth 220, in readiness for their next bid.

So there is pick 54.

Next to the word "rort" in the dictionary, you will soon see a photo of the GWS Academy.

Essendon should have bid on Setterfield. That would have cost them 2400 and it would have cancelled out their ability to match anything else. Carlton should have then bid on Perryman.

In all likelihood, they would not have matched these bids and they would have ended up with just the picks they already had. If they did match, they would have taken the two players and been done for the night until pick 80.

Sadly, clubs only look at it from their own perspective. That's why GWS have become so strong. All the other clubs are happy to trade with them because that us where the best deal is. We saw it with Deledio. Directing him towards GWS got us the best deal.

so they get to upgrade later picks for top 10 picks, with a discount, but they also get to use the leftover points change to upgrade later picks? That is beyond stupid, the very least they could do would be that if there is some change after pulling off a rort you do your change dough. Who came up with this system? santa?

In all seriousness its beyond a joke. The entry requirements for the academy should be strictly Rugby League territory, points re-structured and discounts wound in. The main rort, which is buttressed by a heap of smaller rorts, is the parcelling-up of low percentage picks for a banker.

The competition is brutal, the GWS are already looking depressingly good, and we have to cop this *smile*.