2021 Draft Thread | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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2021 Draft Thread

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
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He is no superstar ,but his consistent in gws best alot compared to others and that's not playing always in his natural position. I reckon get him in the Tigers environment he will thrive better coaching and environment and settle him in the midfield.

His disposal is at 69% , but let's be honest Petracca , Oliver and Cotch are similar to.
As long as people accept he'll be our 3rd or 4th ranked mid (presuming we get a couple of elites). I'm not anti Taranto, he's easily best 22 but scanning over the cattle I'd rather spend the dough on Grundy & grab Matt Crouch on the cheap.
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
3,312
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As long as people accept he'll be our 3rd or 4th ranked mid (presuming we get a couple of elites). I'm not anti Taranto, he's easily best 22 but scanning over the cattle I'd rather spend the dough on Grundy & grab Matt Crouch on the cheap.
Bullus where would Grundy play?
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
14,206
3,435
Bullus where would Grundy play?
He'd play first ruck, Nank as insurance & a viable option to double team. If Melbourne start running around with Gawn & Grundy, to add to their blue ribbon mids in Oliver & Petracca, I struggle to see how we could compete, Geelong also sniffing around. Those are the benchmarks & will be formidable opponents with the second best ruck in the competition. Massive drop off from there, Witts is more B grade, Darcy not consistent enough for A list qualifiication. Naitanui nearing the end. I'm actually quite staggered Collingwood are cutting ties based off 1 season, Darcy Cameron has been a fringe player for nearly a decade, this season is an outlier in my opinion.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
23,304
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I cannot recall too many games that he's grabbed by the scruff of the neck and been the game changer. If it was McCluggage then I would be more interested, he's the one from the 2017 draft class who has an extra gear.
Reckon that's the most crucial aspect of any player you want to take from opposition clubs to bring into the team. Needs to have that extra gear that enables them to have the burst of impact that can change games.
 
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tigerdell

Hope springs infernal
Mar 29, 2014
3,312
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He'd play first ruck, Nank as insurance & a viable option to double team. If Melbourne start running around with Gawn & Grundy, to add to their blue ribbon mids in Oliver & Petracca, I struggle to see how we could compete, Geelong also sniffing around. Those are the benchmarks & will be formidable opponents with the second best ruck in the competition. Massive drop off from there, Witts is more B grade, Darcy not consistent enough for A list qualifiication. Naitanui nearing the end. I'm actually quite staggered Collingwood are cutting ties based off 1 season, Darcy Cameron has been a fringe player for nearly a decade, this season is an outlier in my opinion.
Understand the thinking, though it can be fraught to get a player to prevent improving another club.

I can see how Grundy over Nank improves us, assuming Grundy has 2018-2020 form. In that sense it's a good acquisition.

But it's high risk due to age/contract length.
Will be 29 at the start of next season, another 5 years on the contract (reported to be 950k). So goes until he is 33 and a half.

Even allowing for the pies to pay 300 per season, is that for all 5 seasons? It's still a significant payment for a player at 31yo, 32 and 33.
Will he be elite for those 5 years?
There are doubts
 
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spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
19,152
19,302
Melbourne
We're not getting Grundy. Richmond doesn't spend big money in the ruck division, we spend it where you should, on match-winning key forwards and match-winning midfielders. Because they win you more games than any ruckman.

That strategy has made Nankervis a three-time premiership ruckman. Million-dollar men Grundy and Naitanui have zero between them. Goldstein, Zero. Sandilands, zero. Ryder, zero. Grundy played in a losing grand final to a team that covered the loss of Naitanui with Lycett and Vardy.

Through accident of injury Collingwood has seen the light, is thriving with Cameron and Cox and now seeks to dump Grundy so it can at least bring in a C-grade key forward.

We're getting Taranto. We have a three-time premiership ruckman as our captain, and another premiership ruckman in the twos, and the exciting developer Ryan. We need footballers. Okay, Taranto is not Prestia. Who is. But he is a very good footballer, in our area of maximum need.

Bring in an expensive ruckman to take our captain's spot instead of a much-needed footballer? No.

Get Crouch Potato instead? Crouch!? FMD. A fat, slow, hybrid crab-slash-slug who doesn't run and only uses the ball sideways and short. Does that scream Richmond to you? Even the 15th-placed Crows have moved past him.

Not gonna happen.
 
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Leysy Days

Tiger Legend
Feb 26, 2004
20,236
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One million percent.

For all the reasons Spook mentioned Grundy and Crouch Potato are not coming to Richmond while Blair and Dimma are in charge.

Just not gunna happen so not worth typing about.
 
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Leysy Days

Tiger Legend
Feb 26, 2004
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Saying that It is fair to debate Taranto's worth.

He's the one most available, but not necessarily most suited for us ILO.

We'll need to re program his body to shed some weight and get more mobile.
 
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spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
19,152
19,302
Melbourne
Saying that It is fair to debate Taranto's worth.

He's the one most available, but not necessarily most suited for us ILO.

We'll need to re program his body to shed some weight and get more mobile.
He'll finally get some coaching, leyser. Richmond coaching.
 
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tigerman

It's Tiger Time
Mar 17, 2003
20,907
14,586
He'd play first ruck, Nank as insurance & a viable option to double team. If Melbourne start running around with Gawn & Grundy, to add to their blue ribbon mids in Oliver & Petracca, I struggle to see how we could compete, Geelong also sniffing around. Those are the benchmarks & will be formidable opponents with the second best ruck in the competition. Massive drop off from there, Witts is more B grade, Darcy not consistent enough for A list qualifiication. Naitanui nearing the end. I'm actually quite staggered Collingwood are cutting ties based off 1 season, Darcy Cameron has been a fringe player for nearly a decade, this season is an outlier in my opinion.
Grundy is a no for me, even if the Pies pay some of his contract, the cost would still be too much.

Blair has got a good record in trading in Ruckmen. Maric :love:, Hampson meh, not so good, and then there's triple :cupgold:cupgold:cupgoldNank:love:

Soldo will be better next year when he gets more confidence in his knee.

With Ryan developing and old Mate', i'm not sure a ruckman is a priority.

If we must, Meek might be gettable at a bargain basement price like Nank.
 
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bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
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We're not getting Grundy. Richmond doesn't spend big money in the ruck division, we spend it where you should, on match-winning key forwards and match-winning midfielders. Because they win you more games than any ruckman.

That strategy has made Nankervis a three-time premiership ruckman. Million-dollar men Grundy and Naitanui have zero between them. Goldstein, Zero. Sandilands, zero. Ryder, zero. Grundy played in a losing grand final to a team that covered the loss of Naitanui with Lycett and Vardy.

Through accident of injury Collingwood has seen the light, is thriving with Cameron and Cox and now seeks to dump Grundy so it can at least bring in a C-grade key forward.

We're getting Taranto. We have a three-time premiership ruckman as our captain, and another premiership ruckman in the twos, and the exciting developer Ryan. We need footballers. Okay, Taranto is not Prestia. Who is. But he is a very good footballer, in our area of maximum need.

Bring in an expensive ruckman to take our captain's spot instead of a much-needed footballer? No.

Get Crouch Potato instead? Crouch!? FMD. A fat, slow, hybrid crab-slash-slug who doesn't run and only uses the ball sideways and short. Does that scream Richmond to you? Even the 15th-placed Crows have moved past him.

Not gonna happen.
This being the same Crouch who was AA in 2017, broke the record for most disposals in that year and won his club's B&F? You were just as cold on Brodie when I mentioned him last year, sometimes the handlers don't know how to manage the thoroughbreds, the formula for Brodie was put on display this year & has made the GC look a tad bit silly.

For a player who is still only 27, has battled persistent groin injuries & will be as a cheap as they come, he's value & could fulfill the role Taranto plays, quite comfortably. They are actually pretty similar when it comes to hurt factor with the disposals, Crouch has always been a high accumulator, his defensive side is fine, he's a 5 tackle a game player at his best, often hitting double figures. his clearance work also very good. But the most important aspect is he will come virtually free so if he's a bust we can move on and make a play for a genuine A list footballer (I just don't see it with Taranto).

As for the ruck debate, depth in this area is critical, 2 A graders are better than one, I think you have overlooked the fact that Melbourne are the reigning premiers who also happen to have the best ruck in the comp, a club captain as well. Grundy is the only guy who can consistently match it with Gawn, it makes perfect sense that the 2 clubs with the best lists are chasing him. Don't forget we are playing catch-up at this point & will continue to do so over the next few years.

Understand the thinking, though it can be fraught to get a player to prevent improving another club.

I can see how Grundy over Nank improves us, assuming Grundy has 2018-2020 form. In that sense it's a good acquisition.

But it's high risk due to age/contract length.
Will be 29 at the start of next season, another 5 years on the contract (reported to be 950k). So goes until he is 33 and a half.

Even allowing for the pies to pay 300 per season, is that for all 5 seasons? It's still a significant payment for a player at 31yo, 32 and 33.
Will he be elite for those 5 years?
There are doubts
I'd have no problem having two top tier rucks in that age group on similar dosh, you probably extend the life of both all things considered. If Nank goes down we're in trouble in this area, that's just my take on the situation, others may disagree but Soldo & co. aren't good enough to match it with the best.
 
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spook

Tiger Legend
Jun 18, 2007
19,152
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Melbourne
No, Bully. I'm not overlooking Melbourne. They might have Gawn but they wouldn't win a damn thing without Oliver and Petracca. And they only spent pick 34 to get him.

As for your AA argument from five years ago for Crouch Potato?! You must be unaware of the contempt AA status holds around here. It's the All Home and Away Supercoach points team. They pick the likes of Crouch Potato ahead of Trent Cotchin. They have no idea. It's a laughable argument.
 
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Smoking Aces

Batten Down The Hatches
Sep 21, 2007
18,133
12,643
This being the same Crouch who was AA in 2017, broke the record for most disposals in that year and won his club's B&F? You were just as cold on Brodie when I mentioned him last year, sometimes the handlers don't know how to manage the thoroughbreds, the formula for Brodie was put on display this year & has made the GC look a tad bit silly.

For a player who is still only 27, has battled persistent groin injuries & will be as a cheap as they come, he's value & could fulfill the role Taranto plays, quite comfortably. They are actually pretty similar when it comes to hurt factor with the disposals, Crouch has always been a high accumulator, his defensive side is fine, he's a 5 tackle a game player at his best, often hitting double figures. his clearance work also very good. But the most important aspect is he will come virtually free so if he's a bust we can move on and make a play for a genuine A list footballer (I just don't see it with Taranto).

As for the ruck debate, depth in this area is critical, 2 A graders are better than one, I think you have overlooked the fact that Melbourne are the reigning premiers who also happen to have the best ruck in the comp, a club captain as well. Grundy is the only guy who can consistently match it with Gawn, it makes perfect sense that the 2 clubs with the best lists are chasing him. Don't forget we are playing catch-up at this point & will continue to do so over the next few years.


I'd have no problem having two top tier rucks in that age group on similar dosh, you probably extend the life of both all things considered. If Nank goes down we're in trouble in this area, that's just my take on the situation, others may disagree but Soldo & co. aren't good enough to match it with the best.
With all due respect BH you can’t say in one breadth that Tarranto has already reached his ceiling with his stellar year in 2019 and then spruik Crouch with his AA selection back in 2017.

Tarranto is 4 years younger than Crouch, and a far better player than Crouch will ever be. That’s why you pay the big bucks for him.

I agree with your Brodie analysis. Brodie can run. Crouch can’t.
 
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bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
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No, Bully. I'm not overlooking Melbourne. They might have Gawn but they wouldn't win a damn thing without Oliver and Petracca. And they only spent pick 34 to get him.

As for your AA argument from five years ago for Crouch Potato?! You must be unaware of the contempt AA status holds around here. It's the All Home and Away Supercoach points team. They pick the likes of Crouch Potato ahead of Trent Cotchin. They have no idea. It's a laughable argument.
B&F in a GF year not a pass for you?

Crouch has fallen out with Nicks, for whatever reason, but he's still playing a level above in the SANFL, 40 touches a game on a regular basis, he's the value bet in the bargain bin this year. If he gets a gig somewhere he's even money to match the output of Taranto, happy to revisit this comparison in 12 months (presuming he gets a clean bill of health).

And your point about Gawn being pick 34 is moot, I'm talking about the best players irrespective of their draft position, Grundy & Gawn are the elite rucks of the competition, they value add once the ball hits the turf, they are for all intents & purposes, midfield additions. If there was a bona fide A lister available I'd be all ears but Taranto isn't that guy in my opinion.
 
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bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
14,206
3,435
With all due respect BH you can’t say in one breadth that Tarranto has already reached his ceiling with his stellar year in 2019 and then spruik Crouch with his AA selection back in 2017.

Tarranto is 4 years younger than Crouch, and a far better player than Crouch will ever be. That’s why you pay the big bucks for him.

I agree with your Brodie analysis. Brodie can run. Crouch can’t.
Missing my point, I know what Crouch can offer & he comes free of charge, Taranto will come with a hefty price tag & from all evidence to date he's probably reached his ceiling. The love affair with GWS mids generally ends up in disappointment, Sheil was meant to lift Essendon into the top tier, Treloar got booted from Collingwood, Scully ended up on the scrap heap. Even when SOS double dipped with half a dozen players none became stars. There's nothing to suggest that GWS development has been woefully managed like some are suggesting.
 

fastin bulbous

I Dig Syd
Mar 30, 2010
3,553
3,077
Darwin
Bugger them all and draft mids, back our process and only trade first round picks for proven a graders like Prestia and lynch. That’s my 2c mantra. So risky to draft gws cast off ‘star’ mids, they are too full of themselves to work hard IMO.
 

Tigertough1974

Tiger Champion
Oct 1, 2013
2,792
756
We dont pay big bucks for ruckman, as much as your suggesting Crouch is a cheaper version of taranto, nank in the cheap bull midfielder that your suggesting grundy is (a better ruck at his prime i agree), but the point was essentially another clearance player which is exactly what Nank is.
 

DuD_Delist

Tiger Matchwinner
Sep 30, 2014
735
826
Interested on your thoughts on Harry Lemmey BH or anyone
Was a highly rated KP 12 months ago but now has dropped off the earth.
Considering we're in need of a Jack and eventually Lynch replacements over the next 3yrs is he worth the gamble?
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
15,106
6,571
We're not getting Grundy. Richmond doesn't spend big money in the ruck division, we spend it where you should, on match-winning key forwards and match-winning midfielders. Because they win you more games than any ruckman.

That strategy has made Nankervis a three-time premiership ruckman. Million-dollar men Grundy and Naitanui have zero between them. Goldstein, Zero. Sandilands, zero. Ryder, zero. Grundy played in a losing grand final to a team that covered the loss of Naitanui with Lycett and Vardy.

Through accident of injury Collingwood has seen the light, is thriving with Cameron and Cox and now seeks to dump Grundy so it can at least bring in a C-grade key forward.

We're getting Taranto. We have a three-time premiership ruckman as our captain, and another premiership ruckman in the twos, and the exciting developer Ryan. We need footballers. Okay, Taranto is not Prestia. Who is. But he is a very good footballer, in our area of maximum need.

Bring in an expensive ruckman to take our captain's spot instead of a much-needed footballer? No.

Get Crouch Potato instead? Crouch!? FMD. A fat, slow, hybrid crab-slash-slug who doesn't run and only uses the ball sideways and short. Does that scream Richmond to you? Even the 15th-placed Crows have moved past him.

Not gonna happen.
I reckon you are under rating Nank there. Like a lot of our guys they arent Home and Away stars, but come finals time it is a very different story. Nank is one of the best rucks in the league comes September.

I would gladly add Grundy to our list, but he would be competing for a spot with a guy who has been crucial to our 3 premierships. (and he would cost too much)