40-120 game players

[Braddles]

It has been well documented that our list is short on players in the middle bracket of experience. For the sake of this thread I have placed this bracket at 40-120 games (I think I heard TW use these numbers somewhere, not sure). At 40 games most players have been in the system for between two and four years and we could expect that most of them will go on to become at least handy players.

I have devised a ladder based on the percentage of players on each clubs' list who fall within this range. If the percentage is the same, the team whose average games played within the bracket is highest gets the higher position. The results are quite interesting.

1. Geelong:       41% - 16 players
2. Carlton:        41% - 16
3. Bulldogs:       35% - 14
4. St. Kilda:       34% - 13
5. Adelaide:       33% - 13
6. West Coast:  32% - 12
7. Sydney:         29% - 11
8. Melbourne:    28% - 11

9. Essendon:     26% - 10
10. Hawthorn:   26% - 10
11. Fremantle:   25% - 10
12. Kangaroos:  23% - 9
13. P. Adelaide:  23% - 9
14. RICHMOND:  23% - 9
15. Collingwood: 20% - 8
16. Brisbane:      14% - 5

So we see that generally the better teams have a higher percentage of players in this bracket. With this in mind it looks like we're in for a pretty long season (but we knew that, right?). Our low percentage of players in this bracket is coupled by the fact that the average games played by our players in this bracket is the lowest in the league (66.3 games), this average is 18 below west coast, and 13 behind Geelong and St. Kilda; well over half a season.

Looks like we're going to have to be VERY patient, people. We're a couple of seasons behind the big guns, no doubt about it. Add to this the fact that players within this bracket include some of the regular whipping boys of this site (Rodan, Pettifer, Krakouer, Hyde and Knobel), and I think even the most optomistic of us can expect a fair bit of pain this year.

This trend MIGHT help a bit with the old footy tips too, who would've thought Carlton would be up there? Maybe that goes some way to explaining their surprising early season form. With this in mind it should be noted that Brisbane, Collingwood, and Port Adelaide have Much higher percentages of players with 120+ games behind them; this will certainly help those sides be more competitive than their ladder positions above would suggest.

 

[RROFO]

And of our 9 how many of these are top quality. I think claw would agree we probably only have 2 or 3. Also if we look at our experienced (> 120 games) how do these guys compare with the older guys in the lists of the other teams around us on your ladder? I suspect that although most of them are serviceable their quality would be less overall.

There is a lot riding on our young guys. Lets hope they're up to it. Personally I think it is far too early to make a judgement but it's going to be a fair wait. I am beginning to think 5 years is optimistic. Not TW's fault, just a measure of the poor management in the past. The RFC is like the QE2, takes a hell of a lot of time and space to turn it around.

 

[Braddles]

Our 9 players in this bracket are:

Patrick Bowden (50)
Mark Coughlan (71)
Ray Hall (86)
Chris Hyde (47)
Trent Knobel (72)
Andrew Krakouer (76)
Chris Newman (76)
Kayne Pettifer (59)
David Rodan (60)

All games played are effective at the start of the season. So it seems we only have two players in this group (Newman and Coughlan) who have shown they can play the game to a high standard. The rest are plodders, doubtful, or honest toilers. All have improvement left in them, I just doubt whether we can build a team around them.

Next season this group should include Deledio and Tuck, with Schulz and Hartigan possibilities. Hopefully in another few years we will have similar amounts to Geelong and St. Kilda, this should see us pushing towards finals withthe confidence that we can perform well at the highest level.

 

[Tigerfan]

it might be a while to get these types

We have 1 player in the 30 - 40 bracket, Chris Hyde 48 games.
If he plays the next 2 then we're down to 0 players in the 30-40 game bracket.

The question remains...do we clean out the seniors and pump games into the kids, or develop them at Coburg?

 

[Tigers of Old]

The question remains...do we clean out the seniors and pump games into the kids, or develop them at Coburg?

We've got to get games into the kids, even at the risk of short term pain. The serial disappointments have had their chances and are past their best in many cases.

Fast track the youth now. We can expect a few more floggings, but I'd rather the new generation be there and learn than the same old, same old.

 

[Tigerfan]

Fast track the youth now. We can expect a few more floggings, but I'd rather the new generation be there and learn than the same old, same old.

well tezza reckons that if the team aren't producing by round 6.... :veryupset

we'll find out then, i suppose

 

[TOT70]

This problem will address itself, but it will take two seasons.  Tuck, Schulz, Deledio, Tambling, Jackson, Hartigan and Raines could all be in this group by 2008 and all of the players there already will still have less than 120 games, if they are still at the club.

Youngsters like Meyer, Pattison, McGuane, Roach, Hughes, Thursfield, Limbach, JON, Cassserly and White could have 10-30 games by then, assuming they remain at the club and make progress.  In two years, this weakness will be a strength.

TW does not need to panic just yet.  However, if these players don't make any progress over the next two years then it will be panic stations all round.

The plan should be to turn players over in a managed way for the next two seasons and then reap the benefits, probably when Wallace's contract is up for renewal around late 2008, early 2009.

 

[Braddles]

it might be a while to get these types

We have 1 player in the 30 - 40 bracket, Chris Hyde 48 games.
If he plays the next 2 then we're down to 0 players in the 30-40 game bracket.

The question remains...do we clean out the seniors and pump games into the kids, or develop them at Coburg?

We have one now, but by mid season (assuming they all play most games) we should find Deledio, tuck, Schulz, Hartigan in the 30-40 range. That looks a lot more healthy.

If we play mostly kids, then you'd find Foley, Jackson, Meyer, Raines, Tambling and Thursfield pushing up to around the 20 game mark by mid year. Those boys would certainly be worth playing, and it wouldn't just be a matter of pumping games into the kids, I think they all deserve the opportunity to play senior football.

The question is whether to play some of the younger boys who haven't really been tested at the highest level. Perhaps we could introduce an Australian cricket one day scenario that sees us rotating a couple of young players into the team for a couple of weeks to give some of the older players a "rest".

We can't play too many kids or you end up with a Fitzroy 1996 scenario where you just get belted every week, and the players end up with no confidence, that would likely do more harm than good. Maybe we could reserve the bench of the named players for the youngsters, with two coming from the Foley, Jackson, etc. group, and two of the newer kids. That way if the older guys aren't seen to be in our best 18 they don't play. I think we'd see some pretty competitive performances at Coburg the new boys knew there were at least two spots up for grabs each week.

 

[Tigerfan]

rotating a couple of young players into the team for a couple of weeks to give some of the older players a "rest".

Rotating is a great idea, injuries will open doors too

Maybe we could reserve the bench of the named players for the youngsters, with two coming from the Foley, Jackson, etc. group, and two of the newer kids. That way if the older guys aren't seen to be in our best 18 they don't play.

I totally agree with this one. Allocating places for youth development is essential.

I think we'd see some pretty competitive performances at Coburg the new boys knew there were at least two spots up for grabs each week.

Again, brilliant. We need them motivated and going for it with hunger. Hopefully they can fast track themselves in terms of gymwork, fitness and skills.

Well done Braddles :clap

 

[Scoop]

TW said this morning on SEN, the elders group have six week to prove themselves, otherwise we play the kiddies.

I think this stat is more a reflection of the type of players we have in the bracket of 40 to 120 games.

How many of this guys have room for improvement?

I think most have already peaked.

How many would gt a game in the Bulldogs side that destroyed us?
Newman, maybe Cogs. The rest all all maybes or no way.

 

[dcstar]

.......
How many of this guys have room for improvement?

I think most have already peaked.
.......

Hall improves every season (whether people acknowledge it or not).

Coughlan could be a lot better if he ever got fully fit (and that seems to be a big "if").

Newman is still a possibly more valuable player.

Krakouer needs to show something this year, as the longer things go without delivering the more people come to the conclusion he never will (at least, not in the manner this club needs).

The others are debatable as to whether they can step up further, only time will tell.........