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500K extra for that hack? / Ben Holland sues Richmond [Merged]
- Thread starter BalmyArmy
- Start date
Seems Ben Holland may have originally decided to leave or was thinking about it, then asked to Richmond to match the offer to stay who used Demetriou to prove to Holland that they couldn't afford to. As a sweetener they used Casey to provide some 'opportunities'.
Feeling confident there will be no ramification for the Tigers.
Feeling confident there will be no ramification for the Tigers.
Did anyone catch the interview with Griffen and then the discussion with the Spudster afterwards on Dribble M yesterday arvo?
The Old Spudster managed to redeem himself with me by almost a full notch of the hate ladder.
I missed most of the Griffen interview but he had a sook about Shitetruck missing out on the investment opportunities he'd been "promised" and also mentioned a meeting he'd had with our people and in his 27 years of legal practice he'd never felt such naked and vicious aggression directed his way. They wound up the interview and then Spud was questioned by Jimbob about what happened.
Spud claimed that Shitetruck was offered the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of some investments, the same as he and others had taken up, some had lost money.
The meaty bit was that during the discussions over Shitetruck going to Adelaide Shitetruck and his manager disappeared for virtually all of trade week.
They wouldn't answer phonecalls, weren't at home or in the office for five days leading up to just before trading closed.
The club had no idea if Shitetruck was coming or going and couldn't enter trade discussions with Adelaide.
At a subsequent meeting with Griffen and our people in the boardroom Spud abused the suitcase out of Griffen and gave him about twenty seconds to remove himself or be evicted.
Also interesting to read in some of the articles that Shitetruck didn't even have the decency to tell the club he wanted to stay at Tigerland. The dirty cockaroach hid in his dark and smelly cupboard for trade week and then crawled out and got Dunc to tell the club that maybe he would be happy to stay for a few extra sweeteners thrown in.
Take the bastard to court and I hope he gets crapped on from a great height and cops both lots of legal fees.
The Old Spudster managed to redeem himself with me by almost a full notch of the hate ladder.
I missed most of the Griffen interview but he had a sook about Shitetruck missing out on the investment opportunities he'd been "promised" and also mentioned a meeting he'd had with our people and in his 27 years of legal practice he'd never felt such naked and vicious aggression directed his way. They wound up the interview and then Spud was questioned by Jimbob about what happened.
Spud claimed that Shitetruck was offered the opportunity to get in on the ground floor of some investments, the same as he and others had taken up, some had lost money.
The meaty bit was that during the discussions over Shitetruck going to Adelaide Shitetruck and his manager disappeared for virtually all of trade week.
They wouldn't answer phonecalls, weren't at home or in the office for five days leading up to just before trading closed.
The club had no idea if Shitetruck was coming or going and couldn't enter trade discussions with Adelaide.
At a subsequent meeting with Griffen and our people in the boardroom Spud abused the suitcase out of Griffen and gave him about twenty seconds to remove himself or be evicted.
Also interesting to read in some of the articles that Shitetruck didn't even have the decency to tell the club he wanted to stay at Tigerland. The dirty cockaroach hid in his dark and smelly cupboard for trade week and then crawled out and got Dunc to tell the club that maybe he would be happy to stay for a few extra sweeteners thrown in.
Take the bastard to court and I hope he gets crapped on from a great height and cops both lots of legal fees.
Everyone tells stories to suit their own cause. As if Danny would go on air saying we promised Dutchy a half a million in extras to make up the shortfall to retain his services when he's got his own hide to cover.
Playing devil's advocate here, and if promises to Ben were actually reneged on, how many here would be happy to be ripped off on such a large amount of money?
If Ben is genuine and didn't receive what he was promised, and I suspect many here wouldn't give up half a million bucks without a fight, then good luck to him. If he's fabricating stories then his name will be dirt.
People are saying club's do these kind of deals all the time but the sticking point seems to be that Ben thinks Richmond were all fluff and no substance in regard to promises made to keep him at the club.
I don't understand Ben lodging the writ then saying he'd rather sort it out through the players' association rather than the courts and won't spend too much emotional energy on something I don't have a clue about.
You'd better take care TM...I reckon you're close to doing a phoofer valve. :hihi
Playing devil's advocate here, and if promises to Ben were actually reneged on, how many here would be happy to be ripped off on such a large amount of money?
If Ben is genuine and didn't receive what he was promised, and I suspect many here wouldn't give up half a million bucks without a fight, then good luck to him. If he's fabricating stories then his name will be dirt.
People are saying club's do these kind of deals all the time but the sticking point seems to be that Ben thinks Richmond were all fluff and no substance in regard to promises made to keep him at the club.
I don't understand Ben lodging the writ then saying he'd rather sort it out through the players' association rather than the courts and won't spend too much emotional energy on something I don't have a clue about.
You'd better take care TM...I reckon you're close to doing a phoofer valve. :hihi
Caroline Wilson's article in todays Age makes it pretty clear that Holland was the agent of his own demise. He apparently stopped working as a podiatrist and so couldn't continue those opportunities in Casey's aged care facilities and when the properties at Sandhurst came up for buying Holland wasn't there on the day. Another interesting thing which I didn't know, the original Kane Johnson deal fell through because Johnson increased his asking price significantly right at the death knock.
Holland's cautionary tale. (realfooty)
Holland's cautionary tale
Caroline Wilson | April 6, 2008
BEN Holland, in the words of his manager, is a player spurned. In the eyes of some members of the media, he could prove the missing link to alleged subtle and systematic salary-cap cheating at Richmond during Clinton Casey's presidency.
But on all of the evidence presented to date, surely there is also a very strong case arguing that Ben Holland is a bitter footballer nearing the end of his career and demanding money for next to nothing?
Holland has presented himself as a cautionary tale. Having sued his former president Casey and former club Richmond for $530,000, his case should send a warning not to footballers who settle for significantly less money to stay at their club but instead to players who believe they will succeed in business or anything involving finances simply because they are a footballer.
Casey clearly made undertakings to Holland. According to the player, he was "going to be like a financial planner". You would hope for Holland's sake that the notes he took after that coffee at Koko restaurant at Crown and the subsequent letter Casey sent him provided more concrete monetary promises than that.
Richmond, as it turns out, could have been a frontrunner among AFL clubs in making available share and property packages, some which have proved successful for players and some which have not. But the AFL investigated those deals and cleared them, just as they have cleared Chris Judd's third-party deal with Carlton president *smile* Pratt.
Remember when Tony Lockett retired and believed he had been promised a massive lump of retirement money from the AFL as part of his Sydney contract? And then when the AFL actually demanded he do some significant ambassadorial work for the money, Lockett spat the dummy and became bitter and twisted with the game?
It is true that Holland was promised podiatry opportunities via Casey but that they never amounted to much does not seem to be Casey's fault. The player worked briefly as a podiatrist in one of Casey's aged-care facilities but it was not a job he was keen to continue, given that he worked for a brief period of time, earning only $4000.
In fact, it is staggering to believe that Holland has chosen to say some embarrassing things. He was quoted in The Australian yesterday bleating: "Other players got parcels of land at Sandhurst. I wanted to get involved but it never eventuated. Nothing ever happened."
Our memory of those land sales is that plenty of potential buyers, including some Richmond players and officials, turned up on the day they became available and purchased accordingly. Did Holland expect his financial mentor Casey would drive him there or even buy the land for him with Casey's cash?
Certainly, if Casey promised the latter, then both he and Richmond are in a great deal of trouble. But the AFL, the players' association and Griffin all deny a salary cap issue at this stage.
No, this ageing player's story reeks of yet another footballer who has failed to take responsibility for bad decisions, injury and his subsequent struggles with form.
If the basis of Holland's case is as it appears — that Casey promised to identify business opportunities and did not — then his claim looms as a tough one to prove because it takes two to tango.
Hopefully, for Holland's sake, he is not simply another player, despite all of the off-field opportunities provided nowadays from the players' union via the AFL, who struggles to pay his own bills.
Holland's gripe from this recent passage of football history offers a cautionary lesson, too, for all clubs and specifically Richmond — not that the Tigers need to be told again — about the mistakes a club can make when it believes it is on the brink of greatness.
Richmond finished third in 2001 but was smashed by both grand finalists Essendon and Brisbane Lions during September, particularly in the midfield at the Gabba. Rather than concede it had gone as far as it could with that group of players, it took short cuts, picking up the likes of Paul Hudson and Greg Stafford — albeit in exchange for Nick Daffy and some cash.
One reason Ben Holland never made it to Adelaide is because the Kane Johnson trade — where Richmond was to receive Johnson a year earlier than it eventually did along with at least one draft pick — fell through when Johnson significantly lifted his price at the death-knell. So Holland would have had to place himself at the mercy of the pre-season draft.
Brendon Gale, who will now try to resolve his old teammate's issue via the association's grievance procedure, left the Tigers in some bitterness because the money going to players like Holland had squeezed him out financially. Paul Broderick also retired that year.
Gale's bitterness was short-lived but the loss of those two club leaders was another nail in the coaching career of Danny Frawley and the leadership at Richmond has never truly recovered.
And Gale? He is just another in a long list of Tigers who remains a successful player in the football world but no longer at Tigerland.
Richmond looks likely to survive allegations of salary-cap rorting but it would do well to take some extra wisdom from this unsavoury story.
Holland's cautionary tale
Caroline Wilson | April 6, 2008
BEN Holland, in the words of his manager, is a player spurned. In the eyes of some members of the media, he could prove the missing link to alleged subtle and systematic salary-cap cheating at Richmond during Clinton Casey's presidency.
But on all of the evidence presented to date, surely there is also a very strong case arguing that Ben Holland is a bitter footballer nearing the end of his career and demanding money for next to nothing?
Holland has presented himself as a cautionary tale. Having sued his former president Casey and former club Richmond for $530,000, his case should send a warning not to footballers who settle for significantly less money to stay at their club but instead to players who believe they will succeed in business or anything involving finances simply because they are a footballer.
Casey clearly made undertakings to Holland. According to the player, he was "going to be like a financial planner". You would hope for Holland's sake that the notes he took after that coffee at Koko restaurant at Crown and the subsequent letter Casey sent him provided more concrete monetary promises than that.
Richmond, as it turns out, could have been a frontrunner among AFL clubs in making available share and property packages, some which have proved successful for players and some which have not. But the AFL investigated those deals and cleared them, just as they have cleared Chris Judd's third-party deal with Carlton president *smile* Pratt.
Remember when Tony Lockett retired and believed he had been promised a massive lump of retirement money from the AFL as part of his Sydney contract? And then when the AFL actually demanded he do some significant ambassadorial work for the money, Lockett spat the dummy and became bitter and twisted with the game?
It is true that Holland was promised podiatry opportunities via Casey but that they never amounted to much does not seem to be Casey's fault. The player worked briefly as a podiatrist in one of Casey's aged-care facilities but it was not a job he was keen to continue, given that he worked for a brief period of time, earning only $4000.
In fact, it is staggering to believe that Holland has chosen to say some embarrassing things. He was quoted in The Australian yesterday bleating: "Other players got parcels of land at Sandhurst. I wanted to get involved but it never eventuated. Nothing ever happened."
Our memory of those land sales is that plenty of potential buyers, including some Richmond players and officials, turned up on the day they became available and purchased accordingly. Did Holland expect his financial mentor Casey would drive him there or even buy the land for him with Casey's cash?
Certainly, if Casey promised the latter, then both he and Richmond are in a great deal of trouble. But the AFL, the players' association and Griffin all deny a salary cap issue at this stage.
No, this ageing player's story reeks of yet another footballer who has failed to take responsibility for bad decisions, injury and his subsequent struggles with form.
If the basis of Holland's case is as it appears — that Casey promised to identify business opportunities and did not — then his claim looms as a tough one to prove because it takes two to tango.
Hopefully, for Holland's sake, he is not simply another player, despite all of the off-field opportunities provided nowadays from the players' union via the AFL, who struggles to pay his own bills.
Holland's gripe from this recent passage of football history offers a cautionary lesson, too, for all clubs and specifically Richmond — not that the Tigers need to be told again — about the mistakes a club can make when it believes it is on the brink of greatness.
Richmond finished third in 2001 but was smashed by both grand finalists Essendon and Brisbane Lions during September, particularly in the midfield at the Gabba. Rather than concede it had gone as far as it could with that group of players, it took short cuts, picking up the likes of Paul Hudson and Greg Stafford — albeit in exchange for Nick Daffy and some cash.
One reason Ben Holland never made it to Adelaide is because the Kane Johnson trade — where Richmond was to receive Johnson a year earlier than it eventually did along with at least one draft pick — fell through when Johnson significantly lifted his price at the death-knell. So Holland would have had to place himself at the mercy of the pre-season draft.
Brendon Gale, who will now try to resolve his old teammate's issue via the association's grievance procedure, left the Tigers in some bitterness because the money going to players like Holland had squeezed him out financially. Paul Broderick also retired that year.
Gale's bitterness was short-lived but the loss of those two club leaders was another nail in the coaching career of Danny Frawley and the leadership at Richmond has never truly recovered.
And Gale? He is just another in a long list of Tigers who remains a successful player in the football world but no longer at Tigerland.
Richmond looks likely to survive allegations of salary-cap rorting but it would do well to take some extra wisdom from this unsavoury story.
Haaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgh! Not a hope in hell Rosy. It's just been fully reconditioned and very carefully run in. The old phoofer is in perfect working order 8) 8).rosy23 said:
Interesting article by Caro. Looks very much like someone is very twisted and bitter about his own failure to do anything about the opportunities presented to him and has decided to create a hell of a drama for anyone he can get in the gun.
rosy23 said:
I believe the writ was lodged due to statute of limitations Rosy. He was running out of time to lodge his claim and hoped his case would only come to light once he had retired.
Now its out in the public, he's starting to backtrack and say he'd rather it go through the Players Association.
I think he wants it both ways, maybe he thinks the Supreme Court writ was a big enough threat to bluff RFC and casey to settle quietly.
I hope it goes to the Supreme Court (after P.A. realise he has no case) and he has to bear all costs once its thrown out.
How could he have a case? plenty of players have been "spurned" by their clubs and missed out on "opportunities".
Tell you what if vlad and afl think this will be of interest, wait until other "spurned" players beat a path to the courts. The old salary cap may be danger of getting tossed out.
Players missing out on money, restraint of trade scenarios etc etc.
I wouldn't be surprise if holland gets an ex gratia payment from afl, to shut the hell up. He can even massage the feet (and egos) of demented and panderson, to "earn" the money.
Re: Holland's cautionary tale. (realfooty)
That really strengthens the integrity of the salary cap.
Is that how we missed out on Lockett coming to the Tigers. The afl wanted a big name to market the sydney swans. Stop Lockett coming to us and promise him a "superannuation" payout.
Blimey!!!
another player "spurned" and who missed out on "opportunities". Precedent set.
Geez the afl promising reward money to a player to go to another club.rosy23 said:
That really strengthens the integrity of the salary cap.
Is that how we missed out on Lockett coming to the Tigers. The afl wanted a big name to market the sydney swans. Stop Lockett coming to us and promise him a "superannuation" payout.
Blimey!!!
another player "spurned" and who missed out on "opportunities". Precedent set.I heard the Griffen interview also. Gee, he didn't come across too well IMO. I remember how he tried to hold us to ransom back then, bleating to the Adelaide papers until the club refused to deal with him anymore. Telling Ben to go to ground to force our hand. He has got a pretty bad reputation as a player manager.
He didn't really offer up anything concrete, other than Ben and his Dad had taken copious amounts of notes after they returned to their hotel following the meeting.
Maybe when people are talking about "opportunities" and it sounds really promising, in your own mind you take it as being a guarantee that you are going to get these things. But if nothing has been stated as being concrete, then I can't see that this is anything other than an aging player, thinking, gee, my career is nearly over, this is the last big money I am going to make.
I'm sure he was offered opportunities, but as CW states, he didn't even bother to turn up on the day of the sale of land. You have the chance to get in the deal, but you have to have the fortitude to do it yourself. You may also lose money, as Danny Frawley said, a couple of his Casey recommended investments went belly Up.
Griffen kept using the word "spurned" as though Ben was a jealous ex lover, no longer wanted. That seems to be the centre of his grievance, feeling that he was the golden boy and when he got injured and lost form (don't think he was worth the money in the first place on the back of one promising year) that Casey turned his affection to Nathan Brown and others. Ben feels hard done by.
He didn't really offer up anything concrete, other than Ben and his Dad had taken copious amounts of notes after they returned to their hotel following the meeting.
Maybe when people are talking about "opportunities" and it sounds really promising, in your own mind you take it as being a guarantee that you are going to get these things. But if nothing has been stated as being concrete, then I can't see that this is anything other than an aging player, thinking, gee, my career is nearly over, this is the last big money I am going to make.
I'm sure he was offered opportunities, but as CW states, he didn't even bother to turn up on the day of the sale of land. You have the chance to get in the deal, but you have to have the fortitude to do it yourself. You may also lose money, as Danny Frawley said, a couple of his Casey recommended investments went belly Up.
Griffen kept using the word "spurned" as though Ben was a jealous ex lover, no longer wanted. That seems to be the centre of his grievance, feeling that he was the golden boy and when he got injured and lost form (don't think he was worth the money in the first place on the back of one promising year) that Casey turned his affection to Nathan Brown and others. Ben feels hard done by.
After hearing that Frawley did us a favour on radio and far more light being bought onto the issue, it is clear that Ben Holland wants to be paid for "investments", which means that like Carro said, Casey was acting like a financial planner. Clinton Casey can afford for this to go to court, he can pay the legal fees at the end of the day most of these matters get settled out of court.
Holland may have made a fool out of himself. He will always be remembered as the brother of Nick Holland.
Holland may have made a fool out of himself. He will always be remembered as the brother of Nick Holland.
Counter-sue Ben Holland
I believe we should take a class action against Ben Holland for, what the police would call,
"Obtaining property by deception... by impersonating a footballer"
How could we lose????
:spin :rofl
I believe we should take a class action against Ben Holland for, what the police would call,
"Obtaining property by deception... by impersonating a footballer"
How could we lose????
:spin :rofl
I thought I'd drag this one up again as I need a laugh, how is cement head going?
anyone please...
anyone please...
