911 Truth Movement

[Disco08]

You're talking about WTC7?

Without reading any of the conspiracy theories, any idea what % of architects and engineers feel there was a controlled demolition ? I wonder if it's a similar % of say Doctors who believe in Intelligent Design over evolution.

I'm not sure of the percentage, but I always find reasoning more convincing that appeals to consensus. Having read and watched a lot about it it looks to me as though the official report was prepared by Answers In Genesis rather than a team of engineering experts.

 

[Harry]

Sure it will. But feel free to disagree. A series of never before seen nor tested for events happened resulting in the spectacular failure of engineering under conditions that simply couldn't have been conceived during design and construction. I don't see anything that I find requires an alternate explanation.

How can all steel supports melt and give way at the exact same time causing a symmetrical collapse at free fall into its greatest point of resistance? Defies logic.

 

[tigersnake]

How can all steel supports melt and give way at the exact same time causing a symmetrical collapse at free fall into its greatest point of resistance? Defies logic.

It doesn't defy logic, or the principles of structural engineering. If one point gives way, the loads are distributed in such a way that the remaining points are weakened, as all points ely on each other. Its more unlikely/ illogical that the structure would tip. I only have a very basic understanding of it, but its all been blown open in a few studies. Popular Mechanics US did an engineering analysis debunking the conspiracies in the mid 00s. They also found a lot of what seemed to be anomolies or inconsistencies were based only on mis-reporting of details, which became to be accepted as facts, which was understandable in all the chaos.

 

[billyb#40]

How can all steel supports melt and give way at the exact same time causing a symmetrical collapse at free fall into its greatest point of resistance? Defies logic.

p
The towers had a central concrete core - lifts stairs etc and outer steel columns
The towers were designed for sections of the outer steel shell to be able to be taken out by a plane and that's why the towers stood up for some time after the planes hit.
Fire from the planes fuel raged for some time and over time the intense heat reduces the strength of the steel columns which became overloaded with their reduced strength and collapsed.
Once the collapse started the overload just went straight down the building.

 

[JB11]

i find the intense heat theory a crock

if you look at the footage from any of the news crews you will see people actually standing at gaping holes in the building where the plane went thru

why didnt the people die from the said heat

thats a lot of dust remaining from steel and concrete, ive looked up if fire can damage buildings to that extent , its never happened in history
they can burn , but the steel will not melt to dust , its impossible

bombs were placed in the buildings , ask the fireman how they were blown metres across the lobby before the buildings came down

cordite was used to level the buildings, watch loose change its all explained there by the experts

seriously too many questions here

i believe it was an inside job and alot of friends in the US say the same

 

[JB11]

p
The towers had a central concrete core - lifts stairs etc and outer steel columns
The towers were designed for sections of the outer steel shell to be able to be taken out by a plane and that's why the towers stood up for some time after the planes hit.
Fire from the planes fuel raged for some time and over time the intense heat reduces the strength of the steel columns which became overloaded with their reduced strength and collapsed.
Once the collapse started the overload just went straight down the building.

each floor is hermitically sealed

 

[WesternTiger]

each floor is hermitically sealed

So where were the explosives set and when? Were they on the same levels as where the planes impacted? if so great flying by the terrorists who I assume were in the know.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

So where were the explosives set and when? Were they on the same levels as where the planes impacted? if so great flying by the terrorists who I assume were in the know.

Seems we have got off track a bit. Much of what we were actually talking about was the implosion of WTC7 a building that fell almost symmetrically many hours after the twin towers fell. There is a conspiracy theory that it was deliberately demolished but that for no logical reason authorities choose not to admit this.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

How can all steel supports melt and give way at the exact same time causing a symmetrical collapse at free fall into its greatest point of resistance? Defies logic.

This is an assumption that can't be tested. Because the building "appeared" to fall symmetrically doesn't mean that a simultaneous failure occurred.

 

[Harry]

So where were the explosives set and when? Were they on the same levels as where the planes impacted? if so great flying by the terrorists who I assume were in the know.

would appear explosives were set at all levels, which would explain the building crumbling at all levels. the smoke from the fires was dark, virtually black suggesting it was oxygen starved and not that intense. also office buildings don't have enough material to fuel intense fires. why would all the levels below the impact zone pulverise and turn to dust? could be plausible if the levels at and above the crash site did, but not the levels below.

Building 7 wasn't hit by planes and was accross the road. some debris hit this building and it caught on fire. buildings closer to the towers were more damaged and didn't collapse like a deck of cards. they were gutted by fires and smashed apart from the tower collapses, but they still stood up. they had to be pulled down later.

steel framed buildings are designed to withstand fires. a building in spain in 2005 burnt for 2-3 days and didn't collapse.

 

[WesternTiger]

Seems we have got off track a bit. Much of what we were actually talking about was the implosion of WTC7 a building that fell almost symmetrically many hours after the twin towers fell. There is a conspiracy theory that it was deliberately demolished but that for no logical reason authorities choose not to admit this.

Yeah knighters it appears two different discussions are going on.

 

[Disco08]

Sure it will. But feel free to disagree. A series of never before seen nor tested for events happened resulting in the spectacular failure of engineering under conditions that simply couldn't have been conceived during design and construction. I don't see anything that I find requires an alternate explanation.

The conditions inside WTC7 were neither extreme nor unique. People all around it heard explosions right before it collapsed. Numerous experts all agree its collapse has all the trademarks of controlled demolition. The official explanation is ridiculed by many experts.

Are you an expert? Have you studied the evidence and the official report?

 

[tigersnake]

steel framed buildings are designed to withstand fires. a building in spain in 2005 burnt for 2-3 days and didn't collapse.

irrelevant. structural design systems for tall buildings vary a lot. The WTC was a revolutionary design at the time, 1960s. Obviously its fallen out of favour now. But don't take my word for it, check out the Popular Mechanics engineering study into the mechanics of the disaster and the conspiracy theories.

 

[tigersnake]

The conditions inside WTC7 were neither extreme nor unique. People all around it heard explosions right before it collapsed. Numerous experts all agree its collapse has all the trademarks of controlled demolition. The official explanation is ridiculed by many experts.

Are you an expert? Have you studied the evidence and the official report?

Many many more experts ridicule the conspiracies. A quick google search will yield plenty.

 

[tigersnake]

Sure it will. But feel free to disagree. A series of never before seen nor tested for events happened resulting in the spectacular failure of engineering under conditions that simply couldn't have been conceived during design and construction. I don't see anything that I find requires an alternate explanation.

The building designers actually did consider and test for the event of a 707 crashing into the building as a result of getting lost in fog on the way to the airport. A bomber had crashed into the Empire State years earlier. The results of the design were lost in the destruction.

 

[TigerForce]

irrelevant. structural design systems for tall buildings vary a lot. The WTC was a revolutionary design at the time, 1960s. Obviously its fallen out of favour now. But don't take my word for it, check out the Popular Mechanics engineering study into the mechanics of the disaster and the conspiracy theories.

IIRC, Popular Mechanics have been debunked by now. Just an attention-seeking, media-driven magazine. I'd rather hear from real engineers and not magazine journos.

 

[tigersnake]

IIRC, Popular Mechanics have been debunked by now. Just an attention-seeking, media-driven magazine. I'd rather here from real engineers and not magazine journos.

Commissioned by the Mag, done by engineers. But, the conspiracy stuff is fact and the conspiracy debunking stuff is all half-arsed right? They're all in on it.

 

[Baloo]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center#9.2F11_and_collapse

Sounds pretty straight forward to me but then I'm not one to don aluminum foil hats.

 

[TigerForce]

Commissioned by the Mag, done by engineers. But, the conspiracy stuff is fact and the conspiracy debunking stuff is all half-arsed right? They're all in on it.

I always find it somehow funny/strange on how 9/11 gains the 'inside job' tag when compared to other terrorist attacks of the past. It must mean something. If corruption is alive and kicking around the world, especially in the US, then a conspiracy must be close to being true.

Everybody keep debating about the 'pancake collapse' of the buildings, but there are other questions to be asked.

 

[U2Tigers]

Is the US GOVT hiding Elvis as well, maybe he set the explosives for the controlled demolition.