A-League threads [Merged] | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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A-League threads [Merged]

MD Jazz

Nuance is hard to find
Feb 3, 2017
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In terms of power v endurance ratio i would assume footy is up there pretty high. But in terms of skill level, its very poor IMO.

The vast majority of players are one sided. Many players can’t hit a target from 20m. Many players can’t kick between a set of goals 6.4m in width from 30m. Players can’t stick a bloody tackle. I can’t think of a sport that has a worse record of inaccuracy/failure when it comes to the key skills of a game.

Tony Locket was considered one of the most accurate kicks for goal in AFL history and has a career accuracy record of 69.74%. I will also add that they do not count any “out of bounds on the full” in these stats (which would no doubt reduce these numbers).

Jonny Wilkinson was considered the best goal kicker in Rugby and had a career accuracy record of 86.23% (this is all time stats for club and country). And goal posts have a much smaller width at 5.6m in that sport.
That's an unbelievably nieve/biased post. Comparing completely different skillsets.

Ultimately its a pointless conversation. Elite players in both sports have fantastic skills. The very best have the ability to execute these elite skills under pressure.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
8,988
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Every time you turn on the TV and watch footy you hear the commentators lamenting missed shots. But, you know what, watch a soccer game and you hear the same thing. The reality is there are plenty of shots missed in both sports despite the amazing skill levels at the top end. Another reality is that players are shooting for goal under pressure, it is all well and good to say the goal posts are 7 yards apart, and the soccer net is however big it is these days, but in both sports there is pressure from opponents and pressure on the player to make the score.

Pointless to claim that somehow soccer players are better at soccer than Australian Rules players are at football, at the top level the best soccer players would be woeful at football and the same goes the other way.

DS
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
15,289
6,955
Pointless to claim that somehow soccer players are better at soccer than Australian Rules players are at football, at the top level the best soccer players would be woeful at football and the same goes the other way.
Every Aussie NBA player supposedly turned down AFL stardom to go to the US instead, and I think Ive heard at least 1 AFL player- cant think who tho- played some basketball when he was younger.

But yes, any conversation around which sport is "more skilled" is a waste of time.
 
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tigertim

something funny is written here
Mar 6, 2004
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Every Aussie NBA player supposedly turned down AFL stardom to go to the US instead, and I think Ive heard at least 1 AFL player- cant think who tho- played some basketball when he was younger.
I believe it was Angus Graham.
 
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Legends of 2017

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 24, 2005
5,797
4,206
Melbourne
Every Aussie NBA player supposedly turned down AFL stardom to go to the US instead, and I think Ive heard at least 1 AFL player- cant think who tho- played some basketball when he was younger.

But yes, any conversation around which sport is "more skilled" is a waste of time.
BT might know
 

TigerPort

Tiger Superstar
Jun 29, 2006
2,291
2,231
NSW
Every Aussie NBA player supposedly turned down AFL stardom to go to the US instead, and I think Ive heard at least 1 AFL player- cant think who tho- played some basketball when he was younger.

But yes, any conversation around which sport is "more skilled" is a waste of time.

Surely AFL needs more skill to play than soccer given you have to use 4 limbs in AFL V 2 in Soccer (unless you are Maradona)

Just a thought :peepwall
 

mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
14,870
14,463
Its always difficult to compare sports in terms of skill etc, but for me personally I have always felt that soccer has a higher skill level than footy (and will explain that in a bit), but having watched a lot of soccer in the UK, the thing that I realised when I arrived in Australia and started going to games was the sheer size of the ground. Now before I came here I though soccer players were fit, but it was a sort of "hold my beer" moment with the AFL players. Even if you look at time on ground, I think they play for longer and cover much greater average distances.

Now in terms of skill, one of the best ways to review overall skill level isn't looking at the best players, but at the weakest players playing at the top level. So I look at some of the guys playing AFL and their kicking ability etc, and to me its far weaker than the technical skills that you might see from defenders / goalkeepers playing at the lower end of the EPL. The skill level required to kill the ball in soccer is high (anyone who has played it knows how easy it is to attempt to control the ball to see it bounce off your foot around 2m or more away from your body, add in chest control etc.

I do tend to agree though with PT. Soccer is much easier to play at a younger age though than AFL is, particularly in a full game sim. You look at some of the auskick kids, and I love their endeavour but there are a heap of fresh air kicks etc. You don't see this in soccer, sure you see the same "follow the ball" mentality (though this is evident in almost every sport at a young age, its how you can tell who the kids are that really understand the game as they tend to skirt the packs that form). The skill level for kicking, by dropping the ball to foot, is certainly harder than most kicks in soccer (think of the skill of a volley in soccer, thats a normal kick in footy right) and I agree again with PT, that you will see a better standard with young kids at soccer, but you will also see the standard increase quicker.

I would tend to think of myself as a good soccer player, but years ago I was playing Sunday league football with a guy who had played in the 2nd or 3rd division in Scotland (not generally regarded as a great standard), but compared to most of us chumps, you could see the big increase in quality, its hard to imagine how much quicker and higher skilled it is to take the leap from that level to EPL but its a quantum shift.

I'd suspect that shift is probably more related to fitness and the really good players the higher you go up in AFL.

They are both highly skilled games but in different ways, I think there is a more varied level of skills in soccer, but in AFL mastering the kicking technique is difficult. I've never been taught to kick a footy, but I can see how easy it is to hook the kick, probably far easier than it is than in soccer, so the degree of difficulty is much higher, which is why I think I love watching Dusty so much, the degree of difficulty in his kicks is huge, but he's been so good at nailing them.
 

Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
21,517
3,478
Melbourne
Monday's away game against Western United is proceeding with crowds.

In fact, I am hearing the club has been told there will be no games played behind closed doors.
 

MD Jazz

Nuance is hard to find
Feb 3, 2017
10,694
9,681
Its always difficult to compare sports in terms of skill etc, but for me personally I have always felt that soccer has a higher skill level than footy (and will explain that in a bit), but having watched a lot of soccer in the UK, the thing that I realised when I arrived in Australia and started going to games was the sheer size of the ground. Now before I came here I though soccer players were fit, but it was a sort of "hold my beer" moment with the AFL players. Even if you look at time on ground, I think they play for longer and cover much greater average distances.

Now in terms of skill, one of the best ways to review overall skill level isn't looking at the best players, but at the weakest players playing at the top level. So I look at some of the guys playing AFL and their kicking ability etc, and to me its far weaker than the technical skills that you might see from defenders / goalkeepers playing at the lower end of the EPL. The skill level required to kill the ball in soccer is high (anyone who has played it knows how easy it is to attempt to control the ball to see it bounce off your foot around 2m or more away from your body, add in chest control etc.

I do tend to agree though with PT. Soccer is much easier to play at a younger age though than AFL is, particularly in a full game sim. You look at some of the auskick kids, and I love their endeavour but there are a heap of fresh air kicks etc. You don't see this in soccer, sure you see the same "follow the ball" mentality (though this is evident in almost every sport at a young age, its how you can tell who the kids are that really understand the game as they tend to skirt the packs that form). The skill level for kicking, by dropping the ball to foot, is certainly harder than most kicks in soccer (think of the skill of a volley in soccer, thats a normal kick in footy right) and I agree again with PT, that you will see a better standard with young kids at soccer, but you will also see the standard increase quicker.

I would tend to think of myself as a good soccer player, but years ago I was playing Sunday league football with a guy who had played in the 2nd or 3rd division in Scotland (not generally regarded as a great standard), but compared to most of us chumps, you could see the big increase in quality, its hard to imagine how much quicker and higher skilled it is to take the leap from that level to EPL but its a quantum shift.

I'd suspect that shift is probably more related to fitness and the really good players the higher you go up in AFL.

They are both highly skilled games but in different ways, I think there is a more varied level of skills in soccer, but in AFL mastering the kicking technique is difficult. I've never been taught to kick a footy, but I can see how easy it is to hook the kick, probably far easier than it is than in soccer, so the degree of difficulty is much higher, which is why I think I love watching Dusty so much, the degree of difficulty in his kicks is huge, but he's been so good at nailing them.
The other things abvout AFL are there is never a dead ball situation in AFL. The ball is always moving when you kick it. And it's oval shaped with a much smaller margin for error.

IMO it's much easier to perfect a penalty kick or a shot from a free kick in soccer or rubgy league/union than it is a set shot in the AFL.

And the argument about stealing tactics is another inane pointless one. Of course tactics are going to be taken from team sports that have existed and been developed for a much longer period.

The good thing is at least these ridiculous arguments about fan behaviour at respective sports have been settled.

It's been a bad week for the bin man.
 
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MD Jazz

Nuance is hard to find
Feb 3, 2017
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Monday's away game against Western United is proceeding with crowds.

In fact, I am hearing the club has been told there will be no games played behind closed doors.
Light up the flares hey!
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,337
1,366
Its always difficult to compare sports in terms of skill etc, but for me personally I have always felt that soccer has a higher skill level than footy (and will explain that in a bit), but having watched a lot of soccer in the UK, the thing that I realised when I arrived in Australia and started going to games was the sheer size of the ground. Now before I came here I though soccer players were fit, but it was a sort of "hold my beer" moment with the AFL players. Even if you look at time on ground, I think they play for longer and cover much greater average distances.

Now in terms of skill, one of the best ways to review overall skill level isn't looking at the best players, but at the weakest players playing at the top level. So I look at some of the guys playing AFL and their kicking ability etc, and to me its far weaker than the technical skills that you might see from defenders / goalkeepers playing at the lower end of the EPL. The skill level required to kill the ball in soccer is high (anyone who has played it knows how easy it is to attempt to control the ball to see it bounce off your foot around 2m or more away from your body, add in chest control etc.

I do tend to agree though with PT. Soccer is much easier to play at a younger age though than AFL is, particularly in a full game sim. You look at some of the auskick kids, and I love their endeavour but there are a heap of fresh air kicks etc. You don't see this in soccer, sure you see the same "follow the ball" mentality (though this is evident in almost every sport at a young age, its how you can tell who the kids are that really understand the game as they tend to skirt the packs that form). The skill level for kicking, by dropping the ball to foot, is certainly harder than most kicks in soccer (think of the skill of a volley in soccer, thats a normal kick in footy right) and I agree again with PT, that you will see a better standard with young kids at soccer, but you will also see the standard increase quicker.

I would tend to think of myself as a good soccer player, but years ago I was playing Sunday league football with a guy who had played in the 2nd or 3rd division in Scotland (not generally regarded as a great standard), but compared to most of us chumps, you could see the big increase in quality, its hard to imagine how much quicker and higher skilled it is to take the leap from that level to EPL but its a quantum shift.

I'd suspect that shift is probably more related to fitness and the really good players the higher you go up in AFL.

They are both highly skilled games but in different ways, I think there is a more varied level of skills in soccer, but in AFL mastering the kicking technique is difficult. I've never been taught to kick a footy, but I can see how easy it is to hook the kick, probably far easier than it is than in soccer, so the degree of difficulty is much higher, which is why I think I love watching Dusty so much, the degree of difficulty in his kicks is huge, but he's been so good at nailing them.
It’s interesting what you say about packs and “follow the ball” mentality in kid’s sports Posh. And what it means regarding their understanding of the game.

I coached my son’s 6yo team this year. I’d say he is middle of the pack skills wise of their team. Doesn’t really star in games, but isn’t one of the timid kids not getting any ball either.

What was interesting though. It’s his second season, and rather than chasing the pack (like 70% of them did), he was one of those kids dropping back into a defensive position away from the pack for the ball to pop out, where he could run onto it in space.

Initially I thought it was because he was being a bit lazy, just couldn’t be arsed relentlessly going after the ball like a couple of his teammates did. But it appears that he is actually starting to think about where the ball will pop out of the pack that is crowding the ball (with no real instructions from me to do it). Generally when he got it he would be able to go on a good run with the ball. His limited dribbling skills meant that he didn’t have the capability to get around defenders in situations that the really capable kids would have turned into certain goals. But did manage a couple if he was able to dribble for a bit, then hoof a long range attempt accurately into the net. I’d like to get him practicing a bit more of his dribbling when we play muck around together, but he just wants to put his hoof into it and have big shots when he’s playing for fun. No real interest in technical aspects. :)
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
15,289
6,955
Monday's away game against Western United is proceeding with crowds.

In fact, I am hearing the club has been told there will be no games played behind closed doors.
One could say it will be hard to tell the difference at a Western United game.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,337
1,366
Every time you turn on the TV and watch footy you hear the commentators lamenting missed shots. But, you know what, watch a soccer game and you hear the same thing. The reality is there are plenty of shots missed in both sports despite the amazing skill levels at the top end. Another reality is that players are shooting for goal under pressure, it is all well and good to say the goal posts are 7 yards apart, and the soccer net is however big it is these days, but in both sports there is pressure from opponents and pressure on the player to make the score.

Pointless to claim that somehow soccer players are better at soccer than Australian Rules players are at football, at the top level the best soccer players would be woeful at football and the same goes the other way.

DS
Apparently top level rugby league players can play top level Australian rules though David. ;)
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
14,870
14,463
It’s interesting what you say about packs and “follow the ball” mentality in kid’s sports Posh. And what it means regarding their understanding of the game.

I coached my son’s 6yo team this year. I’d say he is middle of the pack skills wise of their team. Doesn’t really star in games, but isn’t one of the timid kids not getting any ball either.

What was interesting though. It’s his second season, and rather than chasing the pack (like 70% of them did), he was one of those kids dropping back into a defensive position away from the pack for the ball to pop out, where he could run onto it in space.

Initially I thought it was because he was being a bit lazy, just couldn’t be arsed relentlessly going after the ball like a couple of his teammates did. But it appears that he is actually starting to think about where the ball will pop out of the pack that is crowding the ball (with no real instructions from me to do it). Generally when he got it he would be able to go on a good run with the ball. His limited dribbling skills meant that he didn’t have the capability to get around defenders in situations that the really capable kids would have turned into certain goals. But did manage a couple if he was able to dribble for a bit, then hoof a long range attempt accurately into the net. I’d like to get him practicing a bit more of his dribbling when we play muck around together, but he just wants to put his hoof into it and have big shots when he’s playing for fun. No real interest in technical aspects. :)

A long time ago when I was a later teenager, I decided to become a soccer referee in the UK. I tended to referee kids between 10 and 14 and you'd still see this sort of behaviour. It was very easy to pick out those that would be good, they'd either need to be in the pack and exceptionally skillful / strong, or like you son, be able to read the game well. Impressive that he can do that at 6 as I saw so many kids getting close to 14 that were still ball followers.

It was actually funny watching the kids around 10, as so many of the kids were bees to the honeypot, the better kids would hang out on the side, and would usually end up scoring 5+ goals each game. You could just see it happening from a long way away.

Wasn't the most fun job I've ever done, I actually told someone I didn't want a linesman in 1 game because he was cheating so much. I just told him to put his flag down, bit intimidating for a 17 year old to have to do that to a 40 year old man, but cheats are cheats right.
 
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Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,337
1,366
A long time ago when I was a later teenager, I decided to become a soccer referee in the UK. I tended to referee kids between 10 and 14 and you'd still see this sort of behaviour. It was very easy to pick out those that would be good, they'd either need to be in the pack and exceptionally skillful / strong, or like you son, be able to read the game well. Impressive that he can do that at 6 as I saw so many kids getting close to 14 that were still ball followers.

It was actually funny watching the kids around 10, as so many of the kids were bees to the honeypot, the better kids would hang out on the side, and would usually end up scoring 5+ goals each game. You could just see it happening from a long way away.

Wasn't the most fun job I've ever done, I actually told someone I didn't want a linesman in 1 game because he was cheating so much. I just told him to put his flag down, bit intimidating for a 17 year old to have to do that to a 40 year old man, but cheats are cheats right.
Yeah, my cousin umpired that kind of age group for Aussie rules footy in his late teens. Up in Sydney actually, where junior Australian Rules footy was still fairly niche at the time. Generally didn’t attract the bogan types we get in the southern states. That demographic tend to be at Rugby League up there.

But even with those dynamics, he had one incident that got so heated with an assistant coach/parent of one side, that my uncle had to step in and intervene in my cousin’s defence.
 
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