a summation

[tigerdave]

We're Richmond supporters....Been down for a long time,have thick skin & can't wait to give it back when the sleeping giant arrives. :beer

 

[johnson2richo2003]

no comment madcow i have been pmed telling me ive been out of line and i sincerely apologise. i would never ever knowingly put this site at risk of prosecution. i have only said what i said because i have a very good contact where it counts who has never been wrong.atm let me say its my opinion of what may have happened.
Thats ok Clawster.Afterall we all know your veiwpoint when it comes to krakour and his ol man for that matter that anything you suggest MAY have happened wouldnt be summed up as anything but a non biased view on your part. ;D

 

[Rosy]

no comment madcow i have been pmed telling me ive been out of line and i sincerely apologise.

Apology accepted. With such serious allegations I'd be nervous if an alledgedly or two were chucked in but to claim things as fact could lead to a legal minefield. No matter what anyone has been told or believes it's up to the courts to determine what actually happened.

 

[gustiger12]

But I think, or at least I hope, your comments were aimed at one Post that may have inpired Claw to make refence to his wife, which was probably a bit out of line.

Yeah, it was the first reference to his wife that I felt was out of line. He took it in his stride and bantered back, full credit to him, and then others joined in. But it was the first reference that I felt was a low blow. Once he responded in kind it was all fair game.

Thanks Baloo. No problem there.

Cheers

 

[Scoop]

Claws views are as valid as anyones on PRE and if he wants to express them so be it.

We are getting better but there still is a truckload of work to be done.

I like the good and bad views. Read it all form your own.

 

[meltiger]

I think most peoples problem with Claw stems from the fact that he is so negative the majority of the time.

If you hadn't noticed we have been on the negative side of finals action the majority of the last 20 years, maybe he's right.

& being negative 110% of the time changes that how?


Claw is more than entitled to his opinion as others have said, but at the same time, others should be free to express their own opinions about his opinions and be free to slam them.


If you want to know why these completely negative attitudes annoy me so much it's that i'm strongly of the belief that negative attitudes and the 'eat our own' mentality is what has kept us down for the last 25 years, the club has been too scared to take steps to change the long term direction of the club for fear of the members.


We now finally have an off-field team that has almost the full support of everyone around the club and are taking steps to change our club, yet still, all people can do is constantly whinge about the direction we are heading in. Thankfully, the off-field staff have such strong support that they are at this point able to ignore these people.


How long that lasts before we fall back into the 'same old Richmond' cycle remains to be seen.


But hey, at least then the likes of Claw and yourself will he happy, we'll be sh!t, but you'll still have something to b!tch about.

 

[the claw]

let me say the only thing i consider my self guilty of is thinking we could do things better. when everybody is running around patting themselves on the back and the likes of wallace miller and co are running around putting a bright spin on any and everything, i tend to sit back and say hey wait a minute, are we going about it the right way. have we selected the right players, have we done the hard yards and made the tough but right decisions.

i have never been critical of our youngsters in fact im one of the few who has had the patience to let the kids prove themselves one way or the other. i havent criticised even when i think they arent good enougth.the worst i have done is point out obvious deficiencies.

but there comes a time when one is going to be critical.ie schulz who i have never rated i still dont think hes got the goods and i doont think hes made any significant improvement since his first yr. as far as im concerned he has this yr to achieve a significant improvement or i will begin to call for his head that means i have given him 5 yrs to show he can make a half decent contribution to our team thats more than enough as far as im concerned.list sizes demand we continue to turn over players.

everyone knows im critical of miller and to a lesser extent wallace. people carry on as if they are incapable of making mistakes well miller has made an inordinate amount of mistakes as far as im concerned and i will be happy when he has nothing to do with drafting at all. this man has set us back 5 yrs. as for wallace i have grave concerns about our list structure like many on this site. i have also disagreed with hanging on to sub standard players because it may enable us to win the odd game i continue to disagree with it. long term it can only prolong the rebuilding process and cost us quality nd picks.

as for positives there have been plenty mixed in with what we have got wrong. the list is improving all be it very slowly we are slowly turning our finances around we are weeding out the dead wood and we are putting structures in place for long term sustainability both on and of the field. i still maintain we could do better.

imo the point of real debate is the pace of change for me its only been piecemeal two steps forward one step back but forward at least. most improvements that have happened was going to happen no matter who was in charge. we were on the bottom of the heap and even stareing possible extinction in the eye. i would be so bold to say even i would have got our list to its current state if not better. wallaces real worth to our club really starts now i i hope he and the rest of them get it right. as for being negative well if looking to do better is negative then im negative,

 

[Baloo]

The pace of change ? haven't we turned over 20 players from our list of 38 about 3 years ago ? That's a pretty hefty rate of change in my books. You may question whether the changes were the right ones, but the changes have happened.

 

[craig]

let me say the only thing i consider my self guilty of is thinking we could do things better. when everybody is running around patting themselves on the back and the likes of wallace miller and co are running around putting a bright spin on any and everything, i tend to sit back and say hey wait a minute, are we going about it the right way. have we selected the right players, have we done the hard yards and made the tough but right decisions.

i have never been critical of our youngsters in fact im one of the few who has had the patience to let the kids prove themselves one way or the other. i havent criticised even when i think they arent good enougth.the worst i have done is point out obvious deficiencies.

but there comes a time when one is going to be critical.ie schulz who i have never rated i still dont think hes got the goods and i doont think hes made any significant improvement since his first yr. as far as im concerned he has this yr to achieve a significant improvement or i will begin to call for his head that means i have given him 5 yrs to show he can make a half decent contribution to our team thats more than enough as far as im concerned.list sizes demand we continue to turn over players.

everyone knows im critical of miller and to a lesser extent wallace. people carry on as if they are incapable of making mistakes well miller has made an inordinate amount of mistakes as far as im concerned and i will be happy when he has nothing to do with drafting at all. this man has set us back 5 yrs. as for wallace i have grave concerns about our list structure like many on this site. i have also disagreed with hanging on to sub standard players because it may enable us to win the odd game i continue to disagree with it. long term it can only prolong the rebuilding process and cost us quality nd picks.

as for positives there have been plenty mixed in with what we have got wrong. the list is improving all be it very slowly we are slowly turning our finances around we are weeding out the dead wood and we are putting structures in place for long term sustainability both on and of the field. i still maintain we could do better.

imo the point of real debate is the pace of change for me its only been piecemeal two steps forward one step back but forward at least. most improvements that have happened was going to happen no matter who was in charge. we were on the bottom of the heap and even stareing possible extinction in the eye. i would be so bold to say even i would have got our list to its current state if not better. wallaces real worth to our club really starts now i i hope he and the rest of them get it right. as for being negative well if looking to do better is negative then im negative,

Well said Claw - very articulated and concise. Agree with much of that.

 

[tigers80]

let me say the only thing i consider my self guilty of is thinking we could do things better. when everybody is running around patting themselves on the back and the likes of wallace miller and co are running around putting a bright spin on any and everything, i tend to sit back and say hey wait a minute, are we going about it the right way. have we selected the right players, have we done the hard yards and made the tough but right decisions.

i have never been critical of our youngsters in fact im one of the few who has had the patience to let the kids prove themselves one way or the other. i havent criticised even when i think they arent good enougth.the worst i have done is point out obvious deficiencies.

but there comes a time when one is going to be critical.ie schulz who i have never rated i still dont think hes got the goods and i doont think hes made any significant improvement since his first yr. as far as im concerned he has this yr to achieve a significant improvement or i will begin to call for his head that means i have given him 5 yrs to show he can make a half decent contribution to our team thats more than enough as far as im concerned.list sizes demand we continue to turn over players.

everyone knows im critical of miller and to a lesser extent wallace. people carry on as if they are incapable of making mistakes well miller has made an inordinate amount of mistakes as far as im concerned and i will be happy when he has nothing to do with drafting at all. this man has set us back 5 yrs. as for wallace i have grave concerns about our list structure like many on this site. i have also disagreed with hanging on to sub standard players because it may enable us to win the odd game i continue to disagree with it. long term it can only prolong the rebuilding process and cost us quality nd picks.

as for positives there have been plenty mixed in with what we have got wrong. the list is improving all be it very slowly we are slowly turning our finances around we are weeding out the dead wood and we are putting structures in place for long term sustainability both on and of the field. i still maintain we could do better.

imo the point of real debate is the pace of change for me its only been piecemeal two steps forward one step back but forward at least. most improvements that have happened was going to happen no matter who was in charge. we were on the bottom of the heap and even stareing possible extinction in the eye. i would be so bold to say even i would have got our list to its current state if not better. wallaces real worth to our club really starts now i i hope he and the rest of them get it right. as for being negative well if looking to do better is negative then im negative,

Well said Claw - very articulated and concise. Agree with much of that.

as night follows day hey craig....

 

[gustiger12]

The pace of change ? haven't we turned over 20 players from our list of 38 about 3 years ago ? That's a pretty hefty rate of change in my books. You may question whether the changes were the right ones, but the changes have happened.

You are right Baloo. We have changed a lot. Taking step to delist club stalwarts like Andy Kellaway show that the club is prepared to make hard and unpopular decisions. Wallace gave everyone a chance in his first year. Fair enough too.

Now the cull has started and it will continue. It is the epitemy of the old cliche that "Rome wasn't built in a day"

I agree with Claw that we may have done better, but life in the footy world is always a gamble to some extent and some of the decisions that may have appeared better may have actually turned out worse.

For me I think we have put in place the processes to give us long term sustainability.

 

[the claw]

The pace of change ? haven't we turned over 20 players from our list of 38 about 3 years ago ? That's a pretty hefty rate of change in my books. You may question whether the changes were the right ones, but the changes have happened.

not if another 12 or 15 players are not taking us to where we want. and certainly not if of the remaining 6 or 8 players most of them are 29 +.

lets not get into wheather the changes have been the right ones or not. even if 60% of them are right it will still require another turning over of at least half the list to make us a power. as i have said wallace basically had to put a broom thru 90 % of the players hes done 50%, roughly 40% of his recruits wont make it. hes got the list to a point where we are no longer a rabble but he will take all of his 5 yrs just to make us regular finals contenders yet alone premiership contender.

 

[Rosy]

roughly 40% of his recruits wont make it.

How do you arrive at that figure santa? Is it exclusive to Terry or a general stat at most clubs? Of course recruiting won't have a 100% success rate but it's hard to be too critical before the kids have had a fair chance. After all there have been players you've jumped up and down about because we didn't draft them but they've not lived up to expectation and hardly been heard of since.

 

[Tigers of Old]

he will take all of his 5 yrs just to make us regular finals contenders yet alone premiership contender.

I agree Claw, I guess that's why Terry asked for 5 years. He knows too well he inherited a basket case.

It's all very well to say anyone could have moved us up the ladder but if that's the case, how are Carlscum going with premiership coach Pagan?

It's a credit to his Wallace's coaching prowess that he's done as well as he has with the sh!t list he inherited. To be able to knock out wins against more fancied opponents like Adelaide is testament to his abilities.

He is also ringing the changes or aren't you watching.
As pointed out by gustiger12, the unpopular Kellaway decision highlights this. Chaffey and Stafford would likely have gone too if they had not retired. The rules only allow TW to cull so much.

Also have a look at how many kids we used last season compared to the rest of the competition. It's added significantly to our depth this year with some key players set to return from injury.

As I've said before to you Claw, Terry leans towards the darkside. He's a professional, a realist & not at Tigerland for a quick fix. He's there to make us a damn good football side and win a premiership. 8)

 

[the claw]

roughly 40% of his recruits wont make it.

How do you arrive at that figure santa? Is it exclusive to Terry or a general stat at most clubs? Of course recruiting won't have a 100% success rate but it's hard to be too critical before the kids have had a fair chance. After all there have been players you've jumped up and down about because we didn't draft them but they've not lived up to expectation and hardly been heard of since.

not criticising the kids at all just stating a fact. 60%+ success rate is very good. most clubs have not achieved it but i suspect in the near future it will improve. because of this i get very testy when we dont utilise our early picks as a large percentage of them make it.
how did i arrive at the figure. each clubs success rate was published somewhere about 18mnths 2 yrs ago cant remember where. and yes rosmerta i have got my fair share wrong but i do get more right than wrong. if i got them all right i would be at some club full time instead of on a computer playing silly buggers.

 

[the claw]

he will take all of his 5 yrs just to make us regular finals contenders yet alone premiership contender.

I agree Claw, I guess that's why Terry asked for 5 years. He knows too well he inherited a basket case.

It's all very well to say anyone could have moved us up the ladder but if that's the case, how are Carlscum going with premiership coach Pagan?

It's a credit to his Wallace's coaching prowess that he's done as well as he has with the sh!t list he inherited. To be able to knock out wins against more fancied opponents like Adelaide is testament to his abilities.

He is also ringing the changes or aren't you watching.
As pointed out by gustiger12, the unpopular Kellaway decision highlights this. Chaffey and Stafford would likely have gone too if they had not retired. The rules only allow TW to cull so much.

Also have a look at how many kids we used last season compared to the rest of the competition. It's added significantly to our depth this year with some key players set to return from injury.

As I've said before to you Claw, Terry leans towards the darkside. He's a professional, a realist & not at Tigerland for a quick fix. He's there to make us a damn good football side and win a premiership. 8)

people say kellaway was a tough decision only for the ferals. he should have been one of the first to go along chaffey stafford and others that have gone and others that are still on the list. if tw wants to be a truly professional darksider im willing to give him a few tips. :hihi

 

[Tigers of Old]

he will take all of his 5 yrs just to make us regular finals contenders yet alone premiership contender.

I agree Claw, I guess that's why Terry asked for 5 years. He knows too well he inherited a basket case.

It's all very well to say anyone could have moved us up the ladder but if that's the case, how are Carlscum going with premiership coach Pagan?

It's a credit to his Wallace's coaching prowess that he's done as well as he has with the sh!t list he inherited. To be able to knock out wins against more fancied opponents like Adelaide is testament to his abilities.

He is also ringing the changes or aren't you watching.
As pointed out by gustiger12, the unpopular Kellaway decision highlights this. Chaffey and Stafford would likely have gone too if they had not retired. The rules only allow TW to cull so much.

Also have a look at how many kids we used last season compared to the rest of the competition. It's added significantly to our depth this year with some key players set to return from injury.

As I've said before to you Claw, Terry leans towards the darkside. He's a professional, a realist & not at Tigerland for a quick fix. He's there to make us a damn good football side and win a premiership. 8)

people say kellaway was a tough decision only for the ferals. he should have been one of the first to go along chaffey stafford and others that have gone and others that are still on the list. if tw wants to be a truly professional darksider im willing to give him a few tips. :hihi

I said 'leans' towards the darkside.

He ain't Lucifer :devilsmiley

 

[TigerMasochist]

The pace of change ? haven't we turned over 20 players from our list of 38 about 3 years ago ? That's a pretty hefty rate of change in my books. You may question whether the changes were the right ones, but the changes have happened.

not if another 12 or 15 players are not taking us to where we want. and certainly not if of the remaining 6 or 8 players most of them are 29 +.

Lets see now 20 from 38 leaves 18 players from our squad of three years ago.
Yet you reckon another 12 to 15 won't take us anywhere, specially the older ones.
So that means you reckon we should have turfed out all bar 3 to 6 players over the last three years and replaced them with kids kids and more kids.
Hate to tell you this Claw but I'm glad you have nothing to do with running the club.
Under your system we would have won the last few spoons and imploded under a mountain of psycopathic supporters, not to mention the total collapse of any revenue streams.





lets not get into wheather the changes have been the right ones or not. even if 60% of them are right it will still require another turning over of at least half the list to make us a power. as i have said wallace basically had to put a broom thru 90 % of the players hes done 50%, roughly 40% of his recruits wont make it. hes got the list to a point where we are no longer a rabble but he will take all of his 5 yrs just to make us regular finals contenders yet alone premiership contender.

You have got the last little bit right, it will take five years to build a good list. One that will be around finals for a few years and then you hope for a little bit of luck to maybe make you a premiership contender