An honest appraisal

[CarnTheTiges]

Weaver's post must be the most intelligent thing that has ever been written on BLOS.

 

[Anduril]

Thought intelligent and BLOS was an oxymoron ;D

 

[the claw]

Originally Posted by Weaver
The impatience, irrationality and sheer single-minded blindness of many Richmond supporters is largely responsible for the mediocrity of our once great club.

Too many people don't have the patience to do the genuine hard work needed to build something from the ground-up. 1 or 2 years into a rebuilding plan and there is a clamour for results-now and coaching changes.

Every time we begin the process we shoot ourselves in the foot as the club officials run scared of rabid and moronic fans.

Instead of having the self-belief, competence and leadership to continue building a side, Frawley felt the hot breath on his neck and topped-up with veterans to try and get immediate success. Instead of having the sense of security to let a Gaspar or Holland go, he couldn't face the Richmond fans after a poor season so kept his veterans at any cost.

Greg Miller is a guy who can stare down these fans. Form a plan and stick to it. Terry Wallace is a guy who can stare down these fans. Neither is going to run scared of coteries, player groups, sponsors or guys with trucks of chicken waste.

Neither guy is going to let the players run the club as happened in the past. Both have the reputations and status to make tough decisions and not need to apologise to anyone. Both can give the one finger salute to the fans and get on with the business of running the club ... which is exactly what we need.

The Richmond plan is clear to anyone with eyes who cares to look.

We are going for pace, pace, pace. Guys who run like the wind and kick the ball well. These guys Deledio, JON, Casserley, Tambling, Meyer, Raines will be brought in every year and we will keep turning them over until we have a 15 man midfield. It will take time. These types of players need 4 years, not 1 to get up to the standards of AFL fitness and competence.

We are developing mobile key position players. Guys like Thursfield who are running, rebounding defenders. Guys like Hughes who play more like Tarrant than Rocca.

The plan is there. For the first time in 25 years we have genuine leadership at the club who are committed to sticking to a plan and bringing it to fruition. Not a bunch of nuff-nuffs who will change and panic at the first sign of fan unrest.

The plan might not be he right one, but at least we have blokes with a vision of how the AFL will look in 5 years time and are building a team for that challenge.

Guys who are trying to build a team to challenge for premierships in 5 years and not caring about a finals appearance this year or next.

Eventually people will see that this year and next don't matter. That players like Gaspar, Tivendale, Chaffey and co don't matter. They are not part of the planning, they are not part of the future. They are simply place-holders. Taking the bumps and punishment (and losses) while we develop the kids to take their place.

They'll do their 1-2 years of service and then be pushed aside when the kids are ready. In exchange for being well paid duds for the past decade, they get to suffer the punishment of ending their career as fall-guys attracting the anger of the fans and losing most weeks.

Instead of having rabid fans pointing the finger at Tambling and wondering why he isn't a game-winner by 19, they can take out their anger on Tivendale while Tambling gets to take his time and grow into a player.

Finally thing start heading in the right directions and idiots who want success yesterday only want to tear it all up and start again.



was reading "big footy" dont go over there much but i tell ya this post impressed me....this has been the problem of this club for goddamn too many years... 

p.s.Rosy hope im not breaking any rules here but i saw this and thought it was a good read as im sure some of/most of us dont venture over to BIG FOOTY....

clearly weaver is aiming this post at brightsiders who at the start of the yr were expecting much improvement and possibly even finals. the average feral has never really embraced the concept of building from scratch and starting from the ground up.it seems to me the only areas we disagree on is the job millers doing and how well we have drafted.i even agree wallace has a broad plan in place i just question if we are going the right way of building a team from the ground up. weaver it seems to me is saying cmon everyone you are not allowed to question gm and tw. well imsorry weaver these 2 have got heaps wrong so far and i for one will question them.miller in particular has had no model for the long term future of the team you only have to look at his recruiting to realise this. but inthe main i can only agree with weaver.

 

[Dean3]

clearly weaver is aiming this post at brightsiders who at the start of the yr were expecting much improvement and possibly even finals. the average feral has never really embraced the concept of building from scratch and starting from the ground up.it seems to me the only areas we disagree on is the job millers doing and how well we have drafted.i even agree wallace has a broad plan in place i just question if we are going the right way of building a team from the ground up. weaver it seems to me is saying cmon everyone you are not allowed to question gm and tw. well imsorry weaver these 2 have got heaps wrong so far and i for one will question them.miller in particular has had no model for the long term future of the team you only have to look at his recruiting to realise this. but inthe main i can only agree with weaver.

On the contrary, I'd have thought it was aimed squarely at so-called darksiders who want to call everyone a dud because they don't play like Chris Judd in their first 10 games and continually run the place down when we are 25 games into a long term rebuild. Sound like anyone familiar claw old son? People call me a brightsider, but Weaver's post just about repeats everyting I've been saying ad nauseum on this site for years, so I feel confident that it wasn't aimed at people like me. Only the brightest of brightsiders would have been expecting to play finals this year...but we can all dream, can't we?

Of course Miller and Wallace are open to criticism, but it would be nice if that criticism were well informed. Have you actually sat down with or contacted Greg Miller and taken him through each recruiting decision? I'm sure that would throw a little brightness on your darkside. Certainly I don't expect Greg Miller, Terry Wallace or any other recruiter in the universe to get it right every time. It is in the nature of recruitment that you will get it wrong a lot of the time. If you go over the actual stats (and I have) you are doing very well if you get it more than 50% right (ie a player that you draft goes on to play more than 50 AFL games). Generally speaking I reckon we are getting the direction right — give or take a few quibbles — and that should be supported. I don't see an awful lot of value in highlighting recruitment failures because if you know anything about the game, then those are going to happen and you must be willing to accept that. As I said, I reckon we have got the football department and recruitment pretty right since Miller took the "finals" clause out of Frawley's contract. It was from that moment that we started to operate like a real football club.

 

[shawry]

clearly weaver is aiming this post at brightsiders who at the start of the yr were expecting much improvement and possibly even finals. the average feral has never really embraced the concept of building from scratch and starting from the ground up.it seems to me the only areas we disagree on is the job millers doing and how well we have drafted.i even agree wallace has a broad plan in place i just question if we are going the right way of building a team from the ground up. weaver it seems to me is saying cmon everyone you are not allowed to question gm and tw. well imsorry weaver these 2 have got heaps wrong so far and i for one will question them.miller in particular has had no model for the long term future of the team you only have to look at his recruiting to realise this. but inthe main i can only agree with weaver.

Dean3, another fantastic post.  This is another reason why you are my favorite poster.  Always astute on the ball and actually think about your posts.  Good work fella.
On the contrary, I'd have thought it was aimed squarely at so-called darksiders who want to call everyone a dud because they don't play like Chris Judd in their first 10 games and continually run the place down when we are 25 games into a long term rebuild. Sound like anyone familiar claw old son? People call me a brightsider, but Weaver's post just about repeats everyting I've been saying ad nauseum on this site for years, so I feel confident that it wasn't aimed at people like me. Only the brightest of brightsiders would have been expecting to play finals this year...but we can all dream, can't we?

Of course Miller and Wallace are open to criticism, but it would be nice if that criticism were well informed. Have you actually sat down with or contacted Greg Miller and taken him through each recruiting decision? I'm sure that would throw a little brightness on your darkside. Certainly I don't expect Greg Miller, Terry Wallace or any other recruiter in the universe to get it right every time. It is in the nature of recruitment that you will get it wrong a lot of the time. If you go over the actual stats (and I have) you are doing very well if you get it more than 50% right (ie a player that you draft goes on to play more than 50 AFL games). Generally speaking I reckon we are getting the direction right — give or take a few quibbles — and that should be supported. I don't see an awful lot of value in highlighting recruitment failures because if you know anything about the game, then those are going to happen and you must be willing to accept that. As I said, I reckon we have got the football department and recruitment pretty right since Miller took the "finals" clause out of Frawley's contract. It was from that moment that we started to operate like a real football club.

 

[Richmond United]

Weavers post is one of the best that i have read on this forum!

It is aimed at those individuals who self-righteously claim they can "see" where others can't. In reality, they continually undermine the club not on the basis of any hidden "knowledge" they possess, but rather on nothing more than the benefit of hindsight.

Guard against unrealistic expectations. Yes we have a plan. Yes there will be more pain.

My hope is for gradual, consistent improvement as we move along our journey towards the holy grail......sustained success.

 

[bullus_hit]

Offering up critisism is fine provided it is used in conjunction with positive developments, constantly hounding individuals for even the slightest mistake and then refusing to acknowledge improvement is the mark of a sociopath. Claw, your interpretation of Miller's performance at the club may have more resonance if you gave equal weight to his achievements, few people are making him out to be the messiah but to constantly harp on about his mistakes highlights something of a hidden agenda. Everyone here knows recruiting isn't a perfect science and getting 100% of decisions right is nigh on impossible, in light of this maybe you should try and provide a more balanced viewpoint and give credit where credit is due. The irony of some of the darksiders is that they are so willing to dish out negativity but would turn in their grave if the Richmond coaching staff acted in the same loathsome, self-deprecating manner. Weaver is spot on when he highlights the contribution of fans because believe it or not, people close to the club actually read some of the rubbish written on this website, as they do with other football forums and blogs. It's high time some people started acting like supporters and not some hypocritical lynch mob. 

 

[tigers80]

great replys guys...when i first read Weavers post i thought THANKGOD there is at least 1 person who has got an idea about whats going on.....it seems there are more than one ..... :clap

its year 2 of a 5 year plan to not only get us into playing finals but to build a list that will contest finals regularly...but what i think most importantly is to get this damn club stable and MOVING forward something that hasnt happened for god knows how long......hey lets face it by the end of this year WE could looking for a new coach and sacking our 2nd year players and and sharpening those knives that have been dormant for all of 2 years NOW......i say go for it Terry and Greg full steam ahead those destablising influences will always be around this club, the only way to SHUT them up is to prove them WRONG......

my only confusion is with the so-called FERAL FACTOR.....who/what is a feral within this club...we have brightsiders/darksiders and FERALS.....now in my book CLAW you are the classic example of the FERAL but for some reason you seem to label most of us on here as FERALS.... :confused

anyway guys i thought it was a great read that i felt needed to be posted on here....

 

[the claw]

the only ones on this site over a period of time who have pushed for the kids to be played are the darksiders. the only ones who have continually said get rid of the senior underachievers consistently have been the darksiders we have always said to hell with results just play the kids and *smile* the oldies off. who on here have prefered a spoon almost the best thing to happen to the club in the last 10 yrs over just missing the finals .mainly the darksiders. clearly weavers opening remarks are not aimed at the darkside we are the only ones who have called for all early picks to be used on kids. we have shown thru persistence that we are against quick fixes unfortunately many on here and miller have shown the quick fix is alive and well.
unlike weaver we dont blame bad draws for where we are at this yr. we put the blame squarely at where it should be and thats at the feet of long term underachieving duds,and those in charge who hang onto them as though their lives depend on it..and yet the majority on here defend these hacks thru yhick or thin im sorry to say its not my fault if most on here dont know a decent footballer from a dud. i suppose thats where all the angst comes from ferals just dont like to hear richmond players are no good. i tell you all i would lay off miller if his stuff ups didnt exceed what he has got right.
the only thing the darksiders on here are guilty of is that we are intolerant. intolerant of incompetence and for that i make no apoligies.

 

[craig]

Here here Claw :hihi

Logic, realism and fact will always win out over blind faith and rose coloured visions.

 

[gustiger12]

the only ones on this site over a period of time who have pushed for the kids to be played are the darksiders. the only ones who have continually said get rid of the senior underachievers consistently have been the darksiders we have always said to hell with results just play the kids and *smile* the oldies off. who on here have prefered a spoon almost the best thing to happen to the club in the last 10 yrs over just missing the finals .mainly the darksiders. clearly weavers opening remarks are not aimed at the darkside we are the only ones who have called for all early picks to be used on kids. we have shown thru persistence that we are against quick fixes unfortunately many on here and miller have shown the quick fix is alive and well.

What a load of Crap Clawasaurus. Many people on here are all for playing the kids, its just that most take a balanced approach rather than the all or nothing approach.

Like it or lump it most of our young players do not have the bodies or preseasons under their belts to cope with a full season of football so will be blood in responsible manner.

A couple of questions for you.

1. How many senior games of football have you coached. (at any level)
2. Have you ever been a recruiter/player manager.

They are not meant to be smart arse questions, but if is was as simple as you would like us to believe how come so many get it wrong (and for so long)

By the way I have never done either, but can tell you I don't have the easy answers either, but am prepared to put a bit of faith (not blind faith) in the current coaching staff.

 

[pahoffm]

I can tell you Gus, every one of Claw's picks from the WA boys were excellent. He picked out boys like Thornton & Ibbotsen just name two, well before they became popular.

One thing about Claw, like him or not, he's consistant & knows his stuff.

I listen to him, and respect him.

 

[Scoop]

I think any one who thought we were on the path to th finals this year was way off base.

This is year 2 out of 5. The gloss is off, the new coach factor has worn off and we are starting to get into the nuts and bolts of the five year plan. NO doubt we are going for pace and foot skills. These will be our key objectives when we are trying to build our next premiership side. Guys like CHaffey, Gaspar and Kellaway don't fit the mould and are already being phased out, hopefully. Krak is on his last legs as well.

I didn't put Tivendale in that group because he can supply run and carry but his foot skills can let us down but so far this year IMO he has been above average overall. Clearly he will not be in our next side that has a tilt at the flag but he can fill a spot for the next year or so because he fits the style of football that we desire. Run and carry. If things go pear shape and his performance drops away I am sure he will be out on his ear as well but his style fits were are heading. And hopefully Miller & CO can surround our runners with a spine that can lead us to success.

That is why I am not a advocate of just playing the kids if the don't deserve it, if they warrant a spot pick them but if a spot comes down to a couple of guys who are preforming about the same I would hope that we would pick the youngster.

 

[Tigers of Old]

I can tell you Gus, every one of Claw's picks from the WA boys were excellent. He picked out boys like Thornton & Ibbotsen just name two, well before they became popular.

One thing about Claw, like him or not, he's consistant & knows his stuff.

I listen to him, and respect him.

Well can we put him in charge of the club then because most of us are well over his high and mightiness & constant criticism of those in charge.

 

[Tubytiger]

I can tell you Gus, every one of Claw's picks from the WA boys were excellent. He picked out boys like Thornton & Ibbotsen just name two, well before they became popular.

One thing about Claw, like him or not, he's consistant & knows his stuff.

I listen to him, and respect him.

Well can we put him in charge of the club then because most of us are well over his high and mightiness & constant criticism of those in charge.

:hihi :hihi :hihi Good call ToO

 

[blx]

Claws ins and outs for next week

Outs : Tivendale, Kellaway, Johnson, J Bowden, Hyde, Krakouer, Rodan, Coughlan and Simmonds

Ins : JON, White, Graham, Hughes, Meyer, Casserly, Polo, Mcguane and Limbach :rofl

 

[the claw]

clearly weaver is aiming this post at brightsiders who at the start of the yr were expecting much improvement and possibly even finals. the average feral has never really embraced the concept of building from scratch and starting from the ground up.it seems to me the only areas we disagree on is the job millers doing and how well we have drafted.i even agree wallace has a broad plan in place i just question if we are going the right way of building a team from the ground up. weaver it seems to me is saying cmon everyone you are not allowed to question gm and tw. well imsorry weaver these 2 have got heaps wrong so far and i for one will question them.miller in particular has had no model for the long term future of the team you only have to look at his recruiting to realise this. but inthe main i can only agree with weaver.

On the contrary, I'd have thought it was aimed squarely at so-called darksiders who want to call everyone a dud because they don't play like Chris Judd in their first 10 games and continually run the place down when we are 25 games into a long term rebuild. Sound like anyone familiar claw old son? People call me a brightsider, but Weaver's post just about repeats everyting I've been saying ad nauseum on this site for years, so I feel confident that it wasn't aimed at people like me. Only the brightest of brightsiders would have been expecting to play finals this year...but we can all dream, can't we?

Of course Miller and Wallace are open to criticism, but it would be nice if that criticism were well informed. Have you actually sat down with or contacted Greg Miller and taken him through each recruiting decision? I'm sure that would throw a little brightness on your darkside. Certainly I don't expect Greg Miller, Terry Wallace or any other recruiter in the universe to get it right every time. It is in the nature of recruitment that you will get it wrong a lot of the time. If you go over the actual stats (and I have) you are doing very well if you get it more than 50% right (ie a player that you draft goes on to play more than 50 AFL games). Generally speaking I reckon we are getting the direction right — give or take a few quibbles — and that should be supported. I don't see an awful lot of value in highlighting recruitment failures because if you know anything about the game, then those are going to happen and you must be willing to accept that. As I said, I reckon we have got the football department and recruitment pretty right since Miller took the "finals" clause out of Frawley's contract. It was from that moment that we started to operate like a real football club.

talk about taking liberty with the truth no ill go further uttering downright lies. firstly the only ones labelled duds have been players who in the main have underachieved over a long period of time.so where you get id have thought it was aimed squarely at so called darksiders WHO WANT TO CALL EVERY ONE A DUD BECAUSE THEY DONT PLAY LIKE CHRIS JUDD IN THEIR FIRST 10 GAMES is beyond me. it either shows you dont read posts or are stupid. if thats to your dislike well thats tough they say the truth hurts i guess its true. in fact i have advocated we keep kids in the team even though they have been poor. in the main we have left the kids alone except to make a comment on a percieved weakness ie pattison slow cant kick but no ones labelled him a dud. and when someone questions useing a very early pick on someone like pattison when there were clearly better players available we are miller bashers. people here reckon i bag miller witout giving justification. well i beg to differ i nearly always give my reasons why we could of done better and in the main all i cop is oh yeah its easy in hindsight. unfortunately i am forced to continually repeat myself because the same sort of mistakes are made over and over.

i must say i am pleased to see you recognise we are rebuilding but what you fail to recognise is its pretty hard to rebuild playing senior duds week after week in fact in wallaces time 25 weeks. how many weeks does he need to find out most of the seniors are no good.ah *smile* i shouldnt have said that i forget you will get upset at the thought of someone calling our players no good, even when they clearly are.
as for miller well my criticisms of his performance are well documented. and apart from the odd silly quip i believe they are more than justified and ya know what? a lot of people agree with me.
ya know i sometimes think we should change our emblem from a tiger to a sheep.because every yr those in charge paint a pretty picture of prosperity and the ferals unquestionly soak it up.

finally this perception that i want to playnothing but kids is once again people putting a spin on my posts to suit their argument. let me say i advocate playing our kids over the duds i advocate playing as many kids as possible week in week out regardless of results.i have posted teams to be played that go something like this.but it seems people choose to ignore them.
b thursfield gaspar newman
hb deledio hall bowden
c raines coughlan johnson
hf brown richardson meyer
f hughes schulz tambling
r simmonds tuck foley
int knobel jackson hartigan p bowden.
theres 10 players 21 or under. they are at varios stages of development. there is only 1 first yr player hughes.as players get injured or lose form i would replace them with other kids if possible. i have been forced to play 4 or 5 seniors that i would like to see gone in time but atm we have no option but to play them.again this team has height speed and skill and most importantly run.if anyone can tell theres something wrong with this team please speak up omitted are krakouer *smile* chaffey pettiferstafford hyde never to be seen again except when injuries dictate.
anyway the games starting must go.