Anthony Mundine bizarre antigay rant

antman

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Recognised in Maori culture - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takat%C4%81pui

Accounts of h/s in Polynesian culture https://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=9637

To me this is unsurprising - it seems that homosexuality exists in one or another in every culture. It's merely the question of whether it is taboo or accepted by wider society - whether on religious or other grounds.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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antman said:
Nope, the Catholics still believe in Hell as a real place. I read on the weekend that they have offered new programs in exorcism - see https://sacerdos.org/en/exorcism-and-prayer-of-liberation/ for details should you want to enrol.

Yes, they believe that Satan is a real entity and that demons walk the earth and possess people and that Hell exists, and people like you, me and homosexuals (among others) will burn in Hell for all Eternity.

Evangelicals, not quite sure but they tend to be fairly literalist with the Gospels.
Again, not my area, but I can't see anything in the Catechism that describes hell as a physical place. If some Christians have these beliefs then it's possibly because it's difficult to escape the depictions of hell, Satan etc in popular culture. The concepts of hell as a state of being, and angels (including Satan) as non-corporeal beings necessitate a healthy amount of poetic licence in order to illustrate them.
 

Djevv

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MD Jazz said:
So it’s ok to express your faith freely despite if it causes damage to others?

Poor persecuted Israel hey.
He damaged RA's reputation and has been issued with a high level breach. What he said is a legitimate expression of the gospel and he has every right to state it but given how sensitive society is about this issue it was not wise for him to do so in his position. Refusing to back down or apologise is not helping his cause either. He seem to think by doing so he will be denying the faith! I wish he would get some better theological advice.

So no he is not being persecuted but only a few years ago such a statement was pretty mainstream and would have attracted little attention now its a 'high-level breach' (of PC orthodoxy). As someone said recently its like Christians have become 'big tobacco'.
 

antman

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LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Again, not my area, but I can't see anything in the Catechism that describes hell as a physical place. If some Christians have these beliefs then it's possibly because it's difficult to escape the depictions of hell, Satan etc in popular culture. The concepts of hell as a state of being, and angels (including Satan) as non-corporeal beings necessitate a healthy amount of poetic licence in order to illustrate them.
The Catechism applies to Catholics, not other christians. I'm sure some more enlightened Catholic priests see these areas as more metaphorical than their more pedantic brothers and sisters, but from the official viewpoint of the Catholic church these things are real places and entities.

Other Christians vary in their beliefs and degree of fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible of course.
 

YinnarTiger

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antman said:
The Catechism applies to Catholics, not other christians. I'm sure some more enlightened Catholic priests see these areas as more metaphorical than their more pedantic brothers and sisters, but from the official viewpoint of the Catholic church these things are real places and entities.

Other Christians vary in their beliefs and degree of fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible of course.
Do you have a link to the "official viewpoint of the Catholic church" of Hell?
 

antman

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YinnarTiger said:
Do you have a link to the "official viewpoint of the Catholic church" of Hell?

Here you go, from the good ol' Catechism which Lee is so fond of quoting.

"1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2O.HTM
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

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antman said:
Here you go, from the good ol' Catechism which Lee is so fond of quoting.

"1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P2O.HTM
Just describes a state of eternal suffering for mine, although the word ‘descend’ is interesting.
 
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easy_tiger

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I thought Ian Roberts comments were good.

basically said young gay people commit suicide everyday as a result of hate and confusion,

and the last thing we need is Falou peddling hate and confusion.

Obviously Issy isnt terribly bright.

Maybe he'll inherit a little bit of the earth to help him cope with his sudden financial downturn?

He could pray for a little bit in Barangaroo ?
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

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easy said:
I thought Ian Roberts comments were good.

basically said young gay people commit suicide everyday as a result of hate and confusion,

and the last thing we need is Falou peddling hate and confusion.

Obviously Issy isnt terribly bright.

Maybe he'll inherit a little bit of the earth to help him cope with his sudden financial downturn?

He could pray for a little bit in Barangaroo ?
Ian Roberts keeps being wheeled out for these things, but I'm not sure he's the best spokesperson after his "involvement" with a murdered streetkid. Bit like Ablett snr going into bat for the church!
 
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easy_tiger

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LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Ian Roberts keeps being wheeled out for these things, but I'm not sure he's the best spokesperson after his "involvement" with a murdered streetkid. Bit like Ablett snr going into bat for the church!
My understanding of his involvement, was he was trying his darnedest to prevent him ending up murdered?

you have to be careful reading the womens weekly while your lining up at the checkout.
 

Djevv

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easy said:
I thought Ian Roberts comments were good.

basically said young gay people commit suicide everyday as a result of hate and confusion,

and the last thing we need is Falou peddling hate and confusion.
This is the PC narrative. That gays commit suicide because of 'hate'. Maybe it is for other reasons - who knows. You can hardly blame Izzy!

Same as aboriginal kids committing suicide. Maybe it is inter-generational trauma (the PC response). But maybe it is substance abuse, sexual abuse, fetal alcohol or even attention seeking.
 
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easy_tiger

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Djevv said:
This is the PC narrative. That gays commit suicide because of 'hate'. Maybe it is for other reasons - who knows. You can hardly blame Izzy!

Same as aboriginal kids committing suicide. Maybe it is inter-generational trauma (the PC response). But maybe it is substance abuse, sexual abuse, fetal alcohol or even attention seeking.
sorry Djevv, that's dreadful.

edit: its way worse than dreadful. attention seeking suicide? C'mon. there's enough sh!t horrible talk in this world without PRE'ers adding to it.

You barrack for a great, socially progressive club that sends blokes to Mardi Gras and has Treaty Victoria on our jumper. Act like it fella
 

Djevv

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easy said:
sorry Djevv, that's dreadful.

edit: its way worse than dreadful. attention seeking suicide? C'mon. there's enough sh!t horrible talk in this world without PRE'ers adding to it.

You barrack for a great, socially progressive club that sends blokes to Mardi Gras and has Treaty Victoria on our jumper. Act like it fella
Yes I have read that the attention kids get from suicide can be a trigger. Yes thats dreadful. You discount it for what reason?

One mans socially progressive is another' socially engineered nightmare.
 

Djevv

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Djevv said:
Yes I have read that the attention kids get from suicide can be a trigger. Yes thats dreadful. You discount it for what reason?

One mans socially progressive is another's socially engineered nightmare.
 
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easy_tiger

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LeeToRainesToRoach said:
I don't read daily telegraph.

assuming the teenager was of consensual age?

irregardless, I thought Robert take on Falous comments were measured and fair.

I don't really understand mud slinging at people who say reasonable things.

you want proper grubby and shadowy, have a scratch about Alan Jones

Djevv said:
You discount it for what reason?
because its a really horrible thing to say.

one man's horrible speech is another man's horrible speech

over and out
 

Djevv

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easy said:
because its a really horrible thing to say.

one man's horrible speech is another man's horrible speech

over and out
OK maybe 'attention seeking' had the wrong connotation. The context I was talking about was suicide clusters in aboriginal remote communities. This was what I was talking about:

'The way people talk about suicide can
also influence the risk of contagion.
For some young people, particularly
those who have experienced significant
disadvantage, the perceived attention
given to the person who has passed
away may make them feel that the
tragic event is actually a positive
outcome.'

from https://headspace.org.au/assets/School-Support/Suicide-contagion-for-Aboriginal-and-Torres-Strait-Islander-young-people-web.pdf

Anyway my point is that we don't always know the factors involved suicide and blaming them on un-PC speech is just a disingenuous method the left use to shut down any speech they disagree with. IMO.
 

antman

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LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Just describes a state of eternal suffering for mine, although the word ‘descend’ is interesting.
Honestly don't know how they can make it more explicit for you Lee. Orthodox Catholicism sees Hell as a place where people go and burn in fire for all eternity. Your interpretation of the Catechism (or mine) as a non-Catholic doesn't matter. That's what these people teach and believe. They also believe that demons still possess people and must be exorcised.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

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Jun 4, 2006
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antman said:
Honestly don't know how they can make it more explicit for you Lee. Orthodox Catholicism sees Hell as a place where people go and burn in fire for all eternity. Your interpretation of the Catechism (or mine) as a non-Catholic doesn't matter. That's what these people teach and believe. They also believe that demons still possess people and must be exorcised.
It's not explicit at all.

Demons in that sense are a good example. They're spiritual forces rather than physical entities.