Are KPP the way of the future

[White Czar]

This debate raises another interesting question: which draft picks should a team use on KPPs?

Look at the super-draft of 2001:  Polak, Molan, Hale and Brooks were recruited in the top 20 while Maguire, Seaby, LRT, Hanson, Playfair, Waite, Miller, Harris and Tristan Walker were outside the top 20.

2002:  Top 20 had *smile*, Mackie and Brennan, outside it were Rivers, Merrett, Perry, Jericho, Staker, Ferguson and Norman

2003: Bradley, Watts, Chaplin, Morrison, Spaanderman, Ryan Murphy vs Chad Jones, Brent Hall, Spencer, Fisher, Hudson

2004: Roughead and Franklin doing well but too soon to make comparisons.

in addition during this period Bock, Rutten and Lynch  have stepped up off the rookie list to become soild KPs, as have ruckmen like Sandilands.

A club with a few early draft choices would have to use most of them on midfielders, wouldn't they?  They are more likely to know what the are getting, there is less risk and the taller players available later could just as easliy develop into the next batch of superstars.

I think the secret with taller players is to take plenty of them and to take them later in the draft.  The next game-breaking CHF is just as likely to be available at pick 20-40 because he is so difficult to recognise at 17-18 when he is still 15kg shy of his AFL weight.

Indeed. Problem is you dont know which kid is going to be a Carey/Jono Brown or a hack.

Otherwise I doubt we should have taken Fiora over Pavlich... *shudder*

 

[pahoffm]

Partially agree on that TOT.

Granted that in the draft teams will always look for the best players available. But what if a tall is in that group of elite players?

Whether it be a Koschitske, or Pavlich, or a Riewoldt, a Hale, a Bradley, a Watts, a Roughead, or a Franklin, if they're amongst the best available then you gotta go after them?

 

[White Czar]

Partially agree on that TOT.

Granted that in the draft teams will always look for the best players available. But what if a tall is in that group of elite players?

Whether it be a Koschitske, or Pavlich, or a Riewoldt, a Hale, a Bradley, a Watts, a Roughead, or a Franklin, if they're amongst the best available then you gotta go after them?

But do you go a Roughead over a Deledio?

a Franklin over a Tambling?

 

[pahoffm]

Partially agree on that TOT.

Granted that in the draft teams will always look for the best players available. But what if a tall is in that group of elite players?

Whether it be a Koschitske, or Pavlich, or a Riewoldt, a Hale, a Bradley, a Watts, a Roughead, or a Franklin, if they're amongst the best available then you gotta go after them?

But do you go a Roughead over a Deledio?

a Franklin over a Tambling?

Well, the 2004 ND showed different clubs' thoughts on this issue.
Tiges went one way, (Deledio & Tambling)
Hawks another, (Roughead & Franklin)
Doggies went both ways, (Griffen @ 3, Williams @ 6)

I think it's still too early to say who was right. Maybe all 3 were right in their own way.

 

[Scoop]

I think that top 5 in time will be the top5 that all drafts are judeged upon.

Also the Hawks had a fair idea that they were yet to bottom out and as happned they got another couple of picks this year and have totally rebuilt there list. So if you now that there is more bad news to come you can afford to focus on one type of player.

I think we did the same thing going after Lids and Tambo and we over achieved this year. And subsquently had no choices at the draft table.

Here is a good question, if we had have had the same picks as the Hawks who would we have picked?

 

[TOT70]

Partially agree on that TOT.

Granted that in the draft teams will always look for the best players available. But what if a tall is in that group of elite players?

Whether it be a Koschitske, or Pavlich, or a Riewoldt, a Hale, a Bradley, a Watts, a Roughead, or a Franklin, if they're amongst the best available then you gotta go after them?

If they are the best available, yes.  

The most impressive part of GM's presentation the other night was logical path they  followed wrt to KPPs.  Ryder, Dowler or Kennedy in a heart beat at 8, every other KP was rated below the mids.  

As you know, Hughes was their fifth rated KP and the opportunity presented at 24 because nearly everyone else was looking at the mids for those picks between 8 and 24, just like RFC were.  Carlton chose Bower instead at 20.  Chances are if they had taken Hughes, we would have had Bower.

If they had been obsessive about a KP at 8, RFC would have ended up taking one ahead of players they rated more highly.  

TAke the best available with the early picks.  Sort out your weaknesses at the trade table when you are looking at challenging for a premiership.  I think WC missed a golden opportunity this year by not getting involved in the Fevola circus.  Trading a quality midfielder for Fevola would have made them more competitive.  Embley, Fletcher, Selwood would all have been jumped at.

Where talls are concerned, I think you need to take several every year.  Some will work out and others will have trade value.

 

[evo]

Here is a good question, if we had have had the same picks as the Hawks who would we have picked?

Iwould've done exactly same as them with 3 and 6.Dowler and Ellis.From what Miller said in an interview he would ve too.

Hawks have had 2 great drafts in a row.

 

[White Czar]

Here is a good question, if we had have had the same picks as the Hawks who would we have picked?

Iwould've done exactly same as them with 3 and 6.Dowler and Ellis.From what Miller said in an interview he would ve too.

Hawks have had 2 great drafts in a row.

I would have gone Ellis & Dowler also I reckon, if I had 3 & 6 for the Tigers. Mind you I'd be very tempted with Kennedy & 3.

Hawks do indeed have a very good future.

 

[Scoop]

I would have jumped at Kennedy and Dowler.

That would have been a dream.  Our KPP's would be restocked with quality youngsters amd then next year it is best available.

 

[geoffryprettyboy]

I keep hearing from everyone that you must have quality talls or KPP to win a flag - well do you

Without a match winning spine, you can forget about winning a premierships, although I don't expect ruckmen to be as tall as they are today, I expect them to be around the mid 190's.

 

[Tango]

and you can have all the gun KPP you like, without quality mids getting and delivering the ball they are starved - just ask Richo
without the likes of Lids, Tambo, JON, Casserlys, Polos, Meyers, we are relying on the likes of Roachs, Tivendales and Chaffeys and we all know about their skills???

 

[pahoffm]

and you can have all the gun KPP you like, without quality mids getting and delivering the ball they are starved - just ask Richo
without the likes of Lids, Tambo, JON, Casserlys, Polos, Meyers,  we are relying on the likes of Roachs, Tivendales and Chaffeys and we all know about their skills???

I think we already saw evidence of that back in 2001.
We had a really good goal to goal line, Gaspar, Holland, Broderick, Richo & Ottens, with Kellers & Hall in the back half for extra measure. We got to the prelim, but that was it.

Equally, in 1995 we got to the prelim too.
We had midfielders such as Knighter, Brodders, Campbo, Bondy, Maxfield, Micky Gale, (Free was out injured). It was our goal to goal line that was "suss".
We, equally, didn't get past the prelim then either.

Tells me that we need all factors hitting at the same time.

 

[davidrodan]

Yes we do not have the best KPP's but history shows that it is easier to develop these types from outside the top draft picks (either lower down or rookie/trade)

If we could find one or two more this year and with our future gun midfield then a premiership is not so far away.

The only problem is IF not WHEN, hopefully TW can see this in the PSD and Rookie drafts

 

[the claw]

What are these players then?

1. Westcoast - Darren Glass(192,93,FB), Quinten Lynch(194,101,CHB/CHF),
Ash Hansen(198,94,CHF), Andy McDougall(197,91,FF)

2. Sydney - Barry Hall(194,101,CHF/FF), Mick O'Loughlin(190,91,FF),
Lew Roberts-Thomson(195,93,CHB)

3. Adelaide - Nathan Bock(193,91,CHB), Ben Rutten(191,98,FB), Scott Welsh(190,91,FF), Ken McGregor(195,95,CHF)

4. Bulldogs - Chris Grant(193,99,CHB/FF), Brian Harris(194,100,FB/CHB), Ryan Hargrave(190,82,FB/CHB)

5. Demons - Ryan Ferguson(195,90,FB), Ben Holland(198,102,FF),
Brad Miller(192,96,CHF/CHB), Alistair Nicholson(197,102,FB), David Neitz(193,100,FF)

Sure, some are better than others. Some are in different stages of development. But they all share similar characteristics, they are >=190cms, and they are around or over the 90kg mark.

Look at our current kpps - Gaspar(193,90,FB), Schulz(193,92,CHB),
Richardson(196,105,FF/CHF), Hall(196,97,CHF?).
So as you can see they all exist. All the top teams have them. So do we, although ours are either in the twilight phase or under-developed.

The point that we are struggling at the moment to develop these kpps, seems to me, that the response is to doubt that we need them. We can see that everyone has them and needs them. And when it comes to that genuine finals threat time, we are going to need them, generally, between the ages of 26-22 too, just like the 15 ruckrovers that our coach tells us about.

My point is that rather than trying to circumvent the game as it is, with someone's as yet unproven idea of what it should be, let's work towards making ourselves the best at where the game is now and will be for the next 5 years.

I hope that I've phrased this correctly.

here here phanto wce melb wb ad and syd have between 16 and 20 talls on their lists at various stages of development. we have 13 with 4 of those ready for retirement or close to it anyway. another 4 more than likely to be delisted and another couple that should be traded.

 

[White Czar]

What are these players then?

1. Westcoast - Darren Glass(192,93,FB), Quinten Lynch(194,101,CHB/CHF),
Ash Hansen(198,94,CHF), Andy McDougall(197,91,FF)

2. Sydney - Barry Hall(194,101,CHF/FF), Mick O'Loughlin(190,91,FF),
Lew Roberts-Thomson(195,93,CHB)

3. Adelaide - Nathan Bock(193,91,CHB), Ben Rutten(191,98,FB), Scott Welsh(190,91,FF), Ken McGregor(195,95,CHF)

4. Bulldogs - Chris Grant(193,99,CHB/FF), Brian Harris(194,100,FB/CHB), Ryan Hargrave(190,82,FB/CHB)

5. Demons - Ryan Ferguson(195,90,FB), Ben Holland(198,102,FF),
Brad Miller(192,96,CHF/CHB), Alistair Nicholson(197,102,FB), David Neitz(193,100,FF)

Sure, some are better than others. Some are in different stages of development. But they all share similar characteristics, they are >=190cms, and they are around or over the 90kg mark.

Look at our current kpps - Gaspar(193,90,FB), Schulz(193,92,CHB),
Richardson(196,105,FF/CHF), Hall(196,97,CHF?).
So as you can see they all exist. All the top teams have them. So do we, although ours are either in the twilight phase or under-developed.

The point that we are struggling at the moment to develop these kpps, seems to me, that the response is to doubt that we need them. We can see that everyone has them and needs them. And when it comes to that genuine finals threat time, we are going to need them, generally, between the ages of 26-22 too, just like the 15 ruckrovers that our coach tells us about.

My point is that rather than trying to circumvent the game as it is, with someone's as yet unproven idea of what it should be, let's work towards making ourselves the best at where the game is now and will be for the next 5 years.

I hope that I've phrased this correctly.

here here phanto wce melb wb ad and syd have between 16 and 20 talls on their lists at various stages of development. we have 13 with 4 of those ready for retirement or close to it anyway.  another 4 more than likely to be delisted and another couple that should be traded.

Rather worrying really.

 

[Tigermad2005]

Will not win to many games without good hard working kkp players.

 

[White Czar]

Will not win to many games without good hard working kkp players.

Key Positions Players

 

[Heather]

I agree that we need to address the lack of KPPs at our club. I think that we are going about it the right way though. We have loaded up on a potentially potent midfield, and hopefully we will draft some more KPPs in this years rookie draft or draft 06 to address our need from 2006 onwards.