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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
A couple of years ago I tried to illustrate that Richmond was indeed heading in the right direction regarding it's list management by showing the make up of some successful sides and then looking at the progression of Richmond's list since the arrival of Greg Miller. I'm now going to repeat that exercise to try and illustrate the opposite.
Here's a look at a couple of the most successful recent sides. Please be gentle if I've missed someone out or you don't agree with the way I've categorized some of the players, obviously this is a fairly subjective exercise. Most of the categories explain themsleves, but keep in mind that inside midfielders are not only the guys that are always on the bottom of the pack. They are the players for each team that can win a significant amount of contested possession and clearances. Outside midfielders include forward flankers in most cases and are typically players that win very little contested ball.
West Coast 2005:
Key Defenders - 3 (Glass, Hunter, Gaspar, McDougall, Spangher)
Key Forwards - 2/3 (Lynch, Staker, Hansen, Graham, Edwards)
Small/Marking Forwards - 1/2 (Matera, Sampi, LeCras)
Rucks - 2 (Cox, Gardiner, Seaby)
Inside Midfielders - 6 (Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Fletcher, Braun, Selwood, Adkins, Butler, McConnell)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Stenglein, Embley, Banfield, R Jones, Rosa, Green, Morton)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Wirrpunda, Nicoski, Chick, B Jones, Wooden, Waters)
This is short a couple of players because I could only find stats for players who actually played in their seniors that year. Despite this note the number of KPP's and keep in mind that they have added 6 players 194cm or taller in the last two drafts.
Geelong 2007:
Key Defenders - 3/4 (Scarlett, Harley, Egan, Mackie, Spencer, S Hunt)
Key Forwards - 2/3 (Mooney, N Ablett, Hawkins, Lonergan, Playfair, Grima)
Small/Marking Forwards - 1/2 (S Johnson, Stokes, Varcoe, Gardiner, Djerkurra)
Rucks - 2 (Ottens, King, Blake, West)
Inside Midfielders - 6/7 (Bartel, G Ablett, Chapman, Corey, Enright, Ling, Kelly, Selwood, Prismall, Callan, Davenport)
Outside Midfielders - 3/4 (Wojcinski, Tenace, Byrnes, D Johnson, Gamble, Hogan, Bedford)
Medium Defenders - 2/3 (Milburn, Rooke, D Johnson, J Hunt, Owen, Reynolds)
Not sure on the placement of a couple of players so if anyone who watches more VFL than I do sees a mistake or two.......
Footscray 2007:
Key Defenders - 3/4 (Harris, Hargrave, Williams, Everitt, Skipper, Baird, Pask)
Key Forwards - 1/2 (Grant, Macdougal, Tiller, Walsh, West, O'Shae)
Small/Marking Forwards - 4/5 (Johnson, Robbins, Akermanis, Murphy, Higgins, Harbrow, F a u l k n e r, Lynch)
Rucks - 2 (Darcy, Street, Minson, Wight)
Inside Midfielders - 5/6 (Cooney, West, Cross, Boyd, Hahn, Eagleton, Hughes)
Outside Midfielders - 3/4 (Giansiracusa, McMahon, Ray, Power, Hill, Stack, Addison)
Medium Defenders - 2/3 (Gilbee, Griffen, Morris, Montgomery, McCormack)
Out of interest.
Now, trying to use these templates and starting with the 2004 draft, here's a look at Richmond's structure and progression after Greg Miller arrived:
Team for 2003:
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, D. Kellaway, Vardy)
Key/Marking Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Holland, Schulz)
Small Forwards - 2 (Pettifer, Krakouer, McGrath)
Rucks - 2 (Stafford, Ottens, Hall)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, King, Fleming, Chaffey, Nicholls, Dragacevic)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Tivendale, Cameron, Campbell, Fiora, Biddiscombe, Houlihan, Hilton, Hyde, Mills, Blumfield, Rodan)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Newman, Zantuck)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Cameron, Holland, McGrath, King, Mills, Vardy, Biddiscombe
Players added: Brown, Marsh, Fletcher, Gilmore, Roach, Morrison, Jackson, Hartigan, Raines, Tuck, Archibald, Foley, Weller
Team for 2004
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, D. Kellaway, Hall, Morrison)
Key/Marking Forwards - 2/3 (Richardson, Schulz)
Small Forwards - 2 (Pettifer, Krakouer)
Rucks - 2 (Stafford, Ottens, Marsh)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Fleming, Nicholls, Fletcher, Dragacevic, Tuck)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Brown, Tivendale, Campbell, Fiora, Houlihan, Hilton, Hyde, Blumfield, Rodan)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Zantuck, Newman, Jackson)
Wallace arrives
Players traded/delisted/retired: Ottens, Fiora, Marsh, Fletcher, Nicholls, Fleming, Dragacevic, Zantuck, Houlihan, Blumfield, D. Kellaway, Weller (thanks DDT)
Players added: Simmonds, Knobel, Graham, Deledio, Tambling, Meyer, Pattison, Polo, McGuane, Limbach, Thursfield,
Team for 2005
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, Hall, Graham, Thursfield)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz, Morrison, Pattison)
Small/Marking Forwards - 2 (Pettifer, Krakouer)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Stafford, Knobel)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Chaffey, Hartigan, Foley)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Brown, Tivendale, Campbell, Deledio, Hyde, Hilton, Tambling, Rodan, Meyer)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Newman, Jackson, Roach, Raines)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Graham, Campbell, Hilton, Morrison, Archibald, Gilmore
Players added: P. Bowden, Oakley-Nicholls, Hughes, Casserley, White, Graham, Humm, Howat
Team for 2006
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, Hall, Thursfield, McGuane, Moore)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz,Hughes, Pattison, Limbach)
Small/Marking Forwards - 1 (P. Bowden, Pettifer, Krakouer)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Stafford, Knobel, Graham)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Hartigan, Polo, Humm, White, Chaffey)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Brown, Tivendale, Deledio, Hyde, Tambling, Oakley-Nicholls, Rodan, Meyer, Casserley, Howat)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Newman, Raines, Jackson, Roach)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Kellaway, Limbach, Stafford, Humm, Chaffey, Rodan, Roach
Players added: Polak, Kingsley, Reiwoldt, Edwards, Connors, Collins, Peterson, King, Clingan
Team for 2007
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, Polak, Thursfield, McGuane, Hall)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz, Kingsley, Hughes, Reiwoldt)
Small/Marking Forwards - 2 (Brown, Pettifer, Krakouer,P Bowden, Peterson)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Pattison, Knobel, Graham)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Polo, White, Connors)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Tivendale, Deledio, Hyde, Tambling, Howat, EdwardsOakley-Nicholls, Meyer, Collins)
Medium Defenders - 4 (Bowden, Newman, Raines, King, Moore, Casserley, Hartigan)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Gaspar, Hall. Kingsley, Knobel,
Players added: McMahon, Morton
Team as it stands right now:
Key Defenders - 3 (Polak, Thursfield, McGuane)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz, Hughes, Reiwoldt)
Small/Marking Forwards - 2 (Brown, Pettifer, Krakouer, P Bowden, Peterson)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Pattison, Graham)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Polo, Connors)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Tivendale, Deledio*, Hyde, Tambling*, McMahon, Morton, Howat, Edwards, Oakley-Nicholls, Meyer, Collins)
Medium Defenders - 4 (Bowden, Newman, Raines, King, Moore, White, Casserley, Hartigan)
You can make a case that Deledio and Tambling have the ability to become the type of player that wins clearances and contested possessions but by no means are they there right now, nor have they been playing that role to date so it would only be an assumption.
We are left with picks 2, 18 & 51, PSD pick 1 and the rookie draft to fill the holes.
So, what do people make of the evidence? Are you happy with the way our team stacks up against the competition?
Here's a look at a couple of the most successful recent sides. Please be gentle if I've missed someone out or you don't agree with the way I've categorized some of the players, obviously this is a fairly subjective exercise. Most of the categories explain themsleves, but keep in mind that inside midfielders are not only the guys that are always on the bottom of the pack. They are the players for each team that can win a significant amount of contested possession and clearances. Outside midfielders include forward flankers in most cases and are typically players that win very little contested ball.
West Coast 2005:
Key Defenders - 3 (Glass, Hunter, Gaspar, McDougall, Spangher)
Key Forwards - 2/3 (Lynch, Staker, Hansen, Graham, Edwards)
Small/Marking Forwards - 1/2 (Matera, Sampi, LeCras)
Rucks - 2 (Cox, Gardiner, Seaby)
Inside Midfielders - 6 (Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Fletcher, Braun, Selwood, Adkins, Butler, McConnell)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Stenglein, Embley, Banfield, R Jones, Rosa, Green, Morton)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Wirrpunda, Nicoski, Chick, B Jones, Wooden, Waters)
This is short a couple of players because I could only find stats for players who actually played in their seniors that year. Despite this note the number of KPP's and keep in mind that they have added 6 players 194cm or taller in the last two drafts.
Geelong 2007:
Key Defenders - 3/4 (Scarlett, Harley, Egan, Mackie, Spencer, S Hunt)
Key Forwards - 2/3 (Mooney, N Ablett, Hawkins, Lonergan, Playfair, Grima)
Small/Marking Forwards - 1/2 (S Johnson, Stokes, Varcoe, Gardiner, Djerkurra)
Rucks - 2 (Ottens, King, Blake, West)
Inside Midfielders - 6/7 (Bartel, G Ablett, Chapman, Corey, Enright, Ling, Kelly, Selwood, Prismall, Callan, Davenport)
Outside Midfielders - 3/4 (Wojcinski, Tenace, Byrnes, D Johnson, Gamble, Hogan, Bedford)
Medium Defenders - 2/3 (Milburn, Rooke, D Johnson, J Hunt, Owen, Reynolds)
Not sure on the placement of a couple of players so if anyone who watches more VFL than I do sees a mistake or two.......
Footscray 2007:
Key Defenders - 3/4 (Harris, Hargrave, Williams, Everitt, Skipper, Baird, Pask)
Key Forwards - 1/2 (Grant, Macdougal, Tiller, Walsh, West, O'Shae)
Small/Marking Forwards - 4/5 (Johnson, Robbins, Akermanis, Murphy, Higgins, Harbrow, F a u l k n e r, Lynch)
Rucks - 2 (Darcy, Street, Minson, Wight)
Inside Midfielders - 5/6 (Cooney, West, Cross, Boyd, Hahn, Eagleton, Hughes)
Outside Midfielders - 3/4 (Giansiracusa, McMahon, Ray, Power, Hill, Stack, Addison)
Medium Defenders - 2/3 (Gilbee, Griffen, Morris, Montgomery, McCormack)
Out of interest.
Now, trying to use these templates and starting with the 2004 draft, here's a look at Richmond's structure and progression after Greg Miller arrived:
Team for 2003:
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, D. Kellaway, Vardy)
Key/Marking Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Holland, Schulz)
Small Forwards - 2 (Pettifer, Krakouer, McGrath)
Rucks - 2 (Stafford, Ottens, Hall)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, King, Fleming, Chaffey, Nicholls, Dragacevic)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Tivendale, Cameron, Campbell, Fiora, Biddiscombe, Houlihan, Hilton, Hyde, Mills, Blumfield, Rodan)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Newman, Zantuck)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Cameron, Holland, McGrath, King, Mills, Vardy, Biddiscombe
Players added: Brown, Marsh, Fletcher, Gilmore, Roach, Morrison, Jackson, Hartigan, Raines, Tuck, Archibald, Foley, Weller
Team for 2004
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, D. Kellaway, Hall, Morrison)
Key/Marking Forwards - 2/3 (Richardson, Schulz)
Small Forwards - 2 (Pettifer, Krakouer)
Rucks - 2 (Stafford, Ottens, Marsh)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Fleming, Nicholls, Fletcher, Dragacevic, Tuck)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Brown, Tivendale, Campbell, Fiora, Houlihan, Hilton, Hyde, Blumfield, Rodan)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Zantuck, Newman, Jackson)
Wallace arrives
Players traded/delisted/retired: Ottens, Fiora, Marsh, Fletcher, Nicholls, Fleming, Dragacevic, Zantuck, Houlihan, Blumfield, D. Kellaway, Weller (thanks DDT)
Players added: Simmonds, Knobel, Graham, Deledio, Tambling, Meyer, Pattison, Polo, McGuane, Limbach, Thursfield,
Team for 2005
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, Hall, Graham, Thursfield)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz, Morrison, Pattison)
Small/Marking Forwards - 2 (Pettifer, Krakouer)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Stafford, Knobel)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Chaffey, Hartigan, Foley)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Brown, Tivendale, Campbell, Deledio, Hyde, Hilton, Tambling, Rodan, Meyer)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Newman, Jackson, Roach, Raines)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Graham, Campbell, Hilton, Morrison, Archibald, Gilmore
Players added: P. Bowden, Oakley-Nicholls, Hughes, Casserley, White, Graham, Humm, Howat
Team for 2006
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, A. Kellaway, Hall, Thursfield, McGuane, Moore)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz,Hughes, Pattison, Limbach)
Small/Marking Forwards - 1 (P. Bowden, Pettifer, Krakouer)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Stafford, Knobel, Graham)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Hartigan, Polo, Humm, White, Chaffey)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Brown, Tivendale, Deledio, Hyde, Tambling, Oakley-Nicholls, Rodan, Meyer, Casserley, Howat)
Medium Defenders - 3 (Bowden, Newman, Raines, Jackson, Roach)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Kellaway, Limbach, Stafford, Humm, Chaffey, Rodan, Roach
Players added: Polak, Kingsley, Reiwoldt, Edwards, Connors, Collins, Peterson, King, Clingan
Team for 2007
Key Defenders - 3 (Gaspar, Polak, Thursfield, McGuane, Hall)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz, Kingsley, Hughes, Reiwoldt)
Small/Marking Forwards - 2 (Brown, Pettifer, Krakouer,P Bowden, Peterson)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Pattison, Knobel, Graham)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Polo, White, Connors)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Tivendale, Deledio, Hyde, Tambling, Howat, EdwardsOakley-Nicholls, Meyer, Collins)
Medium Defenders - 4 (Bowden, Newman, Raines, King, Moore, Casserley, Hartigan)
Players traded/delisted/retired: Gaspar, Hall. Kingsley, Knobel,
Players added: McMahon, Morton
Team as it stands right now:
Key Defenders - 3 (Polak, Thursfield, McGuane)
Key Forwards - 3 (Richardson, Schulz, Hughes, Reiwoldt)
Small/Marking Forwards - 2 (Brown, Pettifer, Krakouer, P Bowden, Peterson)
Rucks - 2 (Simmonds, Pattison, Graham)
Inside Midfielders - 5 (Coughlan, Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Polo, Connors)
Outside Midfielders - 5 (Tivendale, Deledio*, Hyde, Tambling*, McMahon, Morton, Howat, Edwards, Oakley-Nicholls, Meyer, Collins)
Medium Defenders - 4 (Bowden, Newman, Raines, King, Moore, White, Casserley, Hartigan)
You can make a case that Deledio and Tambling have the ability to become the type of player that wins clearances and contested possessions but by no means are they there right now, nor have they been playing that role to date so it would only be an assumption.
We are left with picks 2, 18 & 51, PSD pick 1 and the rookie draft to fill the holes.
So, what do people make of the evidence? Are you happy with the way our team stacks up against the competition?