Australian Economics | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Australian Economics

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
tigertime2 said:
our population is very small - we lack vision - we lack the desire and the will to create projects that are truly Nation building ala the Snowy River scheme. There is no left wing right wing that is a political excuse to do little and not tackle the issues to grow the Nation together. Government (The People) and Enterprise can work together to create whatever we want - there are only self imposed limits we place upon ourselves as a Nation that stops us from achieving great things. Australia as a Nation has trillions and trillions of dollars of assets - we did not borrow one cent from overseas to build the Snow River Scheme - we have a lack of Vision and political will to create great things in this country.
You sound like Mussolini circa 1932
 

bullus_hit

Whatchu talkin about Jack?
Apr 3, 2006
15,227
5,668
Giardiasis said:
You are mistaken if you think the western economies are capitalist. The previous article I assume you skimmed through for all of 5 seconds goes into more detail. Also I think you'll find Chinas's success hasn't been on the back of Moa's 5 year style economic planning, but by pursuing policies that would have Marx turning in his grave.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the author advocating widespread deregulation? China is one of the most heavily regulated countries in the world, they are also one of the most efficient. Deregulation in the financial sector, health, education, transport, farming, weapons manufacturing and the prison system has been one big fail in America, and it's rotten legacy will remain whilst the ever powerful lobby groups continue to buy off politicians.

We can attach irrelevant labels like capitalism, socialism and Marxism etc, but these are such outdated labels which simply scream fear mongering (note the author's thinly veiled attempt at creating an illusory enemy).

My constant gripe with such broad brush analysis is that it's completely devoid of examples. Theory is one thing but back it up with some facts. It's all too easy to revert to a grab bag of lines from dusty old textbooks, but let's start to frame our arguments with some topical examples.

You seem to be firmly entrenched in your free market dogma so how about providing some evidence of free markets behaving in a way which doesn't gravitate towards monopolistic dominance. After all, isn't this the very thing that the free market fundies have been trying to avoid?
 

1eyedtiger

Tiger Superstar
Jun 2, 2007
1,132
1
Regulation Vs Efficiency?

All I'm advocating for is publicly owned companies in competition with privately owned enterprises in areas of vital importance (utilities, etc). I don't think private enterprise is any more efficient unless you believe that only a very small proportion of the population should have a reasonable life. In this respect, it has been hugely successful because I believe that the vast proportion of the population are effectively slaves. Despite the arguments regarding if you are prepared to work harder, you'll achieve more, I believe this to be simply untrue as there are that there are many jobs that many consider beneath themselves but expect others to do for a pittance.

Competition is the key word here. And at the moment, the major players in many industries are taking this country for a ride.
 

MB78

I can have my cake and eat it too
Sep 8, 2009
8,005
2,154
http://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/surprise-rise-in-australias-capex-20131128-2ybh4.html


Time for some good news. This made great reading. I hope it assists in creating thousands more jobs.
 

poppa x

Tiger Legend
May 28, 2004
5,552
0
Mt Waverley
The car industry is unlike most other industries in Australia because of its emotive nature. We tend to be brand loyal but then over-ride our loyalty because our wallets or car preferences (small/SUV/Hybrid/etc) means we buy something else. But we're still "Ford or Holden" people despite driving a Kia or Mazda.
So our Australian Brand Loyalty is misplaced.
We seem to have this mistaken idea that Commodores and Falcons are "Australian" and we need to support Ford and Holden to keep the car industry in Australian hands.
But as we know they are both American, Toyota is Japanese, and therein lies the problem.
We are capable of manufacturing two of the best mid/large size rear wheel drive cars in the world for a competitive price.
However, the overseas owners will not let us export them, because to do so would mean we'd be competing with their plants in other countries.
So we are locked into the small Australian market with no benefits from economies of scale to drive down costs.

What to do?
The next time the car people scream for money, I'd put some conditions on the money (which we don't at the moment).
1. 50% of all future profits are used to pay back what the Taxpayer has given them.
2. Head Office overseas will allow Australian Plants to export anywhere in the world.
3. Any additional future Taxpayer Funds is conditional upon Australian built cars achieving 33% of Australian Car Sales at the time of requesting the money. This means making cars that we Joe and Jane Public want to buy.
4. The Government takes out a memorandum of understanding with the Car Companies with the provision that if any of the points above are not achieved, then the Government can step in and take over the plant. It can then (a) shut it down, or (b) turn it into a workers co-op or (c) flog it off to an Asian buyer silly enough to cough up the dollars.

I'm a capitalist, but I see the car industry behaving like socialists, and it's time to remind them of how a de-regulated capitalist system works.
 

MB78

I can have my cake and eat it too
Sep 8, 2009
8,005
2,154
I would let the car industry go. I would then pump that money into growth industries that will create long term sustainable industries. And if possible I would favor regional Australia so that it puts less pressure on our major cities with population growth.
 

martyshire

^^ Jack Graham that is
Aug 11, 2007
1,664
8
Rowville...or maybe London
MB78 said:
I would let the car industry go. I would then pump that money into growth industries that will create long term sustainable industries. And if possible I would favor regional Australia so that it puts less pressure on our major cities with population growth.
+1
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is 7!! WTF??
Aug 21, 2007
6,782
1,222
Ireland
MB78 said:
I would let the car industry go. I would then pump that money into growth industries that will create long term sustainable industries. And if possible I would favor regional Australia so that it puts less pressure on our major cities with population growth.

What about let the old guard go then talk Elon Musk about being his base for Tesla Motors in Asia?
 

K3

Tiger Legend
Oct 9, 2006
5,213
972
KnightersRevenge said:
What about let the old guard go then talk Elon Musk about being his base for Tesla Motors in Asia?

And actually do something to help new, innovative Australian businesses who are building electric, hybrid, other powered cars.
 

mld

hi
Apr 1, 2006
9,643
1
Melbs
Giardiasis said:
How about we keep tax payer money out of it all together and tell business to forget rent seeking.

That would certainly be my preferred option.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGiWJIPrzKg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTGiWJIPrzKg

A neat overview of Austrian Economics: it's methodology, how it differs from mainstream economics, and why it is far superior.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
Giardiasis said:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TGiWJIPrzKg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTGiWJIPrzKg

A neat overview of Austrian Economics: it's methodology, how it differs from mainstream economics, and why it is far superior.

Proof God Exist! - Real Evidence of God & Jesus

[youtube]QMLfMrjIdwI[/youtube]
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
Giardiasis said:
Cheap and nasty baloo, expect nothing less! Who needs that pesky tool called thinking hey?

You can find a youtube clip to back any position you want to take. It's not hard. It's not thinking.
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
Baloo said:
You can find a youtube clip to back any position you want to take. It's not hard. It's not thinking.
By that reasoning, youtube is an invalid medium in which to learn. I agree you can generally find a youtube clip that provides viewpoints for different opinions, but why does that automatically make any viewpoint on youtube invalid? Is not the quality of the clip a relevant factor?
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,924
I've never really looked at YT as a medium for learning. For me it's been purely entertainment. And those cute sneezing pandas.

But I guess if you know and trust the source, YT could be an educational tool.
 

KnightersRevenge

Baby Knighters is 7!! WTF??
Aug 21, 2007
6,782
1,222
Ireland
Giardiasis said:
By that reasoning, youtube is an invalid medium in which to learn. I agree you can generally find a youtube clip that provides viewpoints for different opinions, but why does that automatically make any viewpoint on youtube invalid? Is not the quality of the clip a relevant factor?

Reason is overrated by some (under-utilised by others). As our knowledge of the universe grows many concepts cannot be approached through reason, thought if you will, only brute force mathematics and computation will get you there. Could this be true of economics?
 

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
KnightersRevenge said:
Reason is overrated by some (under-utilised by others). As our knowledge of the universe grows many concepts cannot be approached through reason, thought if you will, only brute force mathematics and computation will get you there. Could this be true of economics?
I'm not sure any of that makes sense.
 

AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
27,017
14,792
Cmon guys, the Youtube video is a fair overview of the Austrian School - criticise the Austrians for what they do or don't do, not just the medium.

FWIW I think some of the Austrian school stuff has merit, I'm a big fan of Schumpeter and creative destruction for example - I just don't think it explains everything and some things it gets very badly wrong. As on other threads I think its main failing is its rejection of empiricism.