Bachar Houli - بشار حولي,

[tigerdell]

with all due respect to Tom Hafey, who knew more than I ever could, the thinking about football has changed considerably. Brodders explained a reasoning for why players bounce early and often.
Not all players can explode and gain clear air plus have the balance to kick truly at high speed.
Both approaches have value. Each player needs to use what suits them

 

[tigerdell]

i havent missed the nuance of the argument.
You implied that players pad their stats for personal gain.
You said that Bachar deliberately kicked long to contests due to unnecessary bouncing.
And now you have implied that coaches are prioritising stats due to media focus on supercoach ratings.
Those are damning statements that would need clear evidence to back it up.
Especially for a team that you support and have proven successful.

An alternative viewpoint is that kicks long down the line to a contest has been a key part of the gameplan.
The aim is to gain territory, to create a contest on the wing, to allow time to structure behind the ball.
It may be simpler to chip kick but does that style stand up in finals?
We are built to play in a predictable style.
This was very evident in the first half of the season so that the youngsters can gel and get to the right position.
Consistently doing the same thing indicates that the team plays to the coaches instructions. Dimma and Leppacellafly.
In my opinion Houli more than any other player is playing to Dimma's instructions. Not Hafeys.

The gamestyle has changed in the last month.
No doubt. Exciting times.

 

[AngryAnt]

I've never been a professional AFL player, but if I was I reckon I'd be 100% focused on doing the job I'd been given by the coaching staff, and not stuffing that job up. And I reckon if coaches became aware I was taking unnecessary bounces to pad my bounce stats, or doing stupid give and goes to pad my disposal stats, or always kicking it long to pad my metres gained stats instead of taking the right option then I'd expect them to tear me a new one pronto.

And I reckon I'd be more motivated by the coach saying "good job today son" than getting more *smile*' Supercoach points than some other joker. Just IMO.

 

[Brodders17]

I've never been a professional AFL player, but if I was I reckon I'd be 100% focused on doing the job I'd been given by the coaching staff, and not stuffing that job up. And I reckon if coaches became aware I was taking unnecessary bounces to pad my bounce stats, or doing stupid give and goes to pad my disposal stats, or always kicking it long to pad my metres gained stats instead of taking the right option then I'd expect them to tear me a new one pronto.

And I reckon I'd be more motivated by the coach saying "good job today son" than getting more *******' Supercoach points than some other joker. Just IMO.

thats a pretty radical view you hold.

 

[Tiger68]

To a large extent I agree with what has been said, Houli is generally following team instruction.

But.....So players never pad their stats for personal gain ? It's not a new problem, just ask Cotch, Dusty or Ablett. It happens from time to time, if you think it doesn't you are naive. Coaches work on curbing this natural tendency but its a hard one to talk about with players.

I see in the clubs most recent article on Houli 200th that he is the second best player in the league for run and carry....oh wait... it's bounces. They are the same thing right ? I wonder if Saad would agree?

 

[Tiger68]

Just watched Essendon's Merrett kick the goal of the week on 360. He exploded after he collected the ball, ran his full measure and then kicked a long goal. But where was the bounce in this 80m play ? He will never make it in this modern game unless he learns to take a quick bounce before he sets off

 

[AngryAnt]

Can't say I've noticed Houli doing the magical early bounce as soon as he gets the ball and I've been watching a long time. Mind you, haven't really been looking for that so could be wrong.

 

[TigerMasochist]

Can't say I've noticed Houli doing the magical early bounce as soon as he gets the ball and I've been watching a long time. Mind you, haven't really been looking for that so could be wrong.

Crept into his game a few times this year, but he's not the only player in the comp that does it. Frustrates the hell out of me when players take their eyes of what is unfolding ahead of or around them to bounce the ball before they've moved three paces.
If they're playing in space when they take the ball, first look for your options and use your allotted time and distance to assess, then if you've got no options take a bounce and look again. So many times players start presenting to the ball carrier as he breaks clear who then misses the option because he's to busy trying to watch how he's bouncing the ball after two or three steps.

 

[TOT70]

What a cunning concept. Pad out your stats by getting the ball, kicking it and hand balling it, just to impress the coach, so he picks you again. Then get so much of it that your team plays in a Grand Final, where you get the ball all day. Then, keep doing it until you play 200 games.

Geez, he is sneaky,

It is a wonder no one else has thought of this.

 

[Tiger68]

Can't say I've noticed Houli doing the magical early bounce as soon as he gets the ball and I've been watching a long time. Mind you, haven't really been looking for that so could be wrong.

Granted it is largely inconsequential, not a big deal, and it's easily fixed.

The most obvious occasions are when he plays on out of the square and bounces soon after he leaves the square. My estimation is that he has done this on 10 occasions this season, and a couple of times he has got himself in to trouble as a result.

Last week against Port at the17:24 minute mark of Q2, he sees an upfield option, puts in a quick bounce then delivers the ball all within about 4 steps. No harm done, but the imperative on that occasion would be to get the ball upfield quickly to prevent an intercept.

Short also did the same thing, took 2 bouncers within the space of about 10m. I might be a bit of a dinosaur, as one poster alluded to, but sure bouncing in those situations doesn't help the team.

 

[Baloo]

Nathan Foley would take his first bounce as soon as he took off.

Where does Houli come in the leagues bounce stats? Is he a chance to win bouncer of the year?

 

[tigerlove]

Granted it is largely inconsequential, not a big deal, and it's easily fixed.

The most obvious occasions are when he plays on out of the square and bounces soon after he leaves the square. My estimation is that he has done this on 10 occasions this season, and a couple of times he has got himself in to trouble as a result.

I'm struggling to see the issue to be honest. Makes total sense to me to bounce early particularly when running out of the square. The potential then to run extra meterage gives you more options.

 

[Tony Braxton-Hicks]

I'm struggling to see the issue to be honest. Makes total sense to me to bounce early particularly when running out of the square. The potential then to run extra meterage gives you more options.

I used to take an early bounce if I had clear space ahead of me. I always felt more balanced somehow by getting it out of the way and then accelerating into the kick. I'm a lefty, too.

 

[Harry]

Does the running too far rule apply for a kick in from a behind? So many players now run too far without the umpires calling it.

 

[bigwow]

Nathan Foley would take his first bounce as soon as he took off.

Where does Houli come in the leagues bounce stats? Is he a chance to win bouncer of the year?

Wayne Campbell & Nick Daffy virtually dribbled like basketball when they ran with the ball, they'd bounce every couple of steps.

 

[MD Jazz]

Does the running too far rule apply for a kick in from a behind? So many players now run too far without the umpires calling it.

Its the most transgressed but least paid free there is. I often think the umps get the 10m bounce/15m kick distance rules mixed up. Always appears kicks travelling less than 15m get paid as marks and players can easily run in excess of 10m. You just need to count the steps, most players when running would take strides in excess of 1.2-1.4m, that only gives you 7-9 paces. Players often take 20 strides before bouncing. I understand its a lot easier watching at the ground or on TV but it does get frustrating when they apparently decide to apply the rule in a game out of nowhere.

 

[Don’t Argue]

Just watched Essendon's Merrett kick the goal of the week on 360. He exploded after he collected the ball, ran his full measure and then kicked a long goal. But where was the bounce in this 80m play ? He will never make it in this modern game unless he learns to take a quick bounce before he sets off

So he kicked it 65m? Gee I hate that Houli doesn’t do that.

 

[Don’t Argue]

I used to take an early bounce if I had clear space ahead of me. I always felt more balanced somehow by getting it out of the way and then accelerating into the kick. I'm a lefty, too.

Didn’t think your primary school yard was that long?

 

[TigerMasochist]

What a cunning concept. Pad out your stats by getting the ball, kicking it and hand balling it, just to impress the coach, so he picks you again. Then get so much of it that your team plays in a Grand Final, where you get the ball all day. Then, keep doing it until you play 200 games.

Geez, he is sneaky,

Yep. Them bald headed blokes with beady eyes n bushy beards are sneaky bastards, never quite sure what they've got goin on. Bloody nerve of him sneaking up to 200 games n starring in a Granny of all things.

 

[Tiger68]

It's not cunning or sneaky that he pads his stats, its bloody obvious! But I concede it's not a massive crime for a running HBF'er, heaps of other players do it. I'm merely shining a light on the fact that occurs. (and it bothers me more than it should).

Can we please stop the racist inferences and focus on debating the issues. At least we have moved past that Houli doesn't bounce unnecasility, we are now debating if matters. That's a start. Perhaps we could take a similar leap on his apparent focus on racking up disposal numbers. It's understandable. To a large extent that's his role and he currently doesn't have a contact beyond 2019.

More appropriately......I wish Bachar all the best for his 200th, he has been an excellent ambisitor for the club and he has done exceptionally well in 2019. Last week was his best game for the season imo, and he continues to improve his game. He deserves another 12 month contract extension. I would not have said that at the start of the year, as I thought some combination of Short, Naish, Menadue or Markov would replace his aging body. But he is clearly better than those on current form and he deserves another 12 month extension. Credit to him.

I feel if the club gave him a contract extension now it would be good for his football and the clubs finals campaign.