Beams & Bookies

MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
3,337
48
Another mental health.......puuuuuuuuuulease!!!!

What a laughter this is becoming. Maybe the govt should introduce this as another type of annual leave for employees....
Poor form. Completely ignorant post. The bloke has serious issues, gambling addictions kill people.

Let's hope you never suffer any mental illness hey?
 

TigerForce

Richmond has a better list.
Apr 26, 2004
47,207
206
Poor form. Completely ignorant post. The bloke has serious issues, gambling addictions kill people.

Let's hope you never suffer any mental illness hey?
I've suffered and mentioned it on here before. I miss my Dad too by the way. I can understand certain players suffering from this especially Majak Daw but from what we know/hear about types like Beams, it doesn't click. I also wonder why there are so many claiming they have this problem now. Seems like a new fad. Do they REALLY have it??
 

lukeanddad

Tiger Champion
Nov 17, 2008
2,778
34
I've suffered and mentioned it on here before. I miss my Dad too by the way. I can understand certain players suffering from this especially Majak Daw but from what we know/hear about types like Beams, it doesn't click. I also wonder why there are so many claiming they have this problem now. Seems like a new fad. Do they REALLY have it??

This is exactly what Wayne Schwass is trying to address at the Royal Commission. There's no formula - it's a bloody illness. I am surprised with your attitude given you have first hand experience.

I wish the kid well.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,031
283
I think TigerForce is entitled to be cynical about the mental health card.

Im not saying mental illness isnt dreadful and prevalent and deserving of understanding and compassion.

Im also not saying Beams isnt suffering poor mental health.

However, players and clubs always say they are bravely trying to demystify and destigmatise it, but then just say

'he's taking an indefinite break due to mental health'

its actually mystifying it.

when a bloke has a syndiamosis injury, he doesn't go

'im stepping away due to a poor skeletal health'

If they really want to demystify it, they would go, for example

'He's been diagnosed with bipolar and has been self-medicating with booze and punting. The docs are onto it and working to stabilise his mood and we are doing some cognitive work, hoping to lay a foundation for some positive lifestyle change and long-term health. He should be right in 6-8 weeks'
 
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TigerForce

Richmond has a better list.
Apr 26, 2004
47,207
206
I think TigerForce is entitled to be cynical about the mental health card.

Im not saying mental illness isnt dreadful and prevalent and deserving of understanding and compassion.

Im also not saying Beams isnt suffering poor mental health.

However, players and clubs always say they are bravely trying to demystify and destigmatise it, but then just say

'he's taking an indefinite break due to mental health'

its actually mystifying it.

when a bloke has a syndiamosis injury, he doesn't go

'im stepping away due to a poor skeletal health'

If they really want to demystify it, they would go, for example

'He's been diagnosed with bipolar and has been self-medicating with booze and punting. The docs are onto it and working to stabilise his mood and we are doing some cognitive work, hoping to lay a foundation for some positive lifestyle change and long-term health. He should be right in 6-8 weeks'
Exactly right eZyT. It's a case by case situation and we don't know what the true facts are, but Majak's case is more believable than most at the moment. Any player copping racism is believable enough in that they suffer from depression. Just saying that what we know of Beams doesn't click much, but I can understand how losing a father can affect you.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
34,111
76
It's a tough one. Being depressed doesn't mean you have depression. But then again depression is an illness that is hard to quantify because there are many different manifestations of it.

I try and take announcements of mental illness on face value but the one I did struggle with was Garry Lyon's "mental health issues" that were declared when the world found out he was shagging his mates ex-wife.
 
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spook

It is only the intellectually lost who ever argue.
Jun 18, 2007
10,452
83
While I like Ez's demystification process and I am cynical that Lyon's problem was anything greater than feeling sorry for himself, Beams has spoken in an interview previously of having suicidal thoughts. You gotta take that seriously.
 

eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,031
283
While I like Ez's demystification process and I am cynical that Lyon's problem was anything greater than feeling sorry for himself, Beams has spoken in an interview previously of having suicidal thoughts. You gotta take that seriously.
Certainly. Which is my point. By just saying

'Mental health hes stepping away'

Theres is no differentiation between being suicidal and possibly actuating it in poor majaks case, or having a bit of a bender on coke.

It muddies the water on a misunderstood and stigmatised illness further imo.

Im not saying privacy needs invading but some diagnoses and recovery time frames would be helpful
 

lukeanddad

Tiger Champion
Nov 17, 2008
2,778
34
Certainly. Which is my point. By just saying

'Mental health hes stepping away'

Theres is no differentiation between being suicidal and possibly actuating it in poor majaks case, or having a bit of a bender on coke.

It muddies the water on a misunderstood and stigmatised illness further imo.

Im not saying privacy needs invading but some diagnoses and recovery time frames would be helpful

... because it's impossible to quantify. Jack Steven steps away, comes back - and realises he was not as well as he thought he was. Putting a time frame (Mental illness, 6 weeks) is likely to increase stress, rather than alleviate it.

And while we might look down on the guy whose depression manifests itself as benders, I feel just as sad for them (eg Ben Cousins) as I do others, like Majak.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,031
283
... because it's impossible to quantify. Jack Steven steps away, comes back - and realises he was not as well as he thought he was. Putting a time frame (Mental illness, 6 weeks) is likely to increase stress, rather than alleviate it.

And while we might look down on the guy whose depression manifests itself as benders, I feel just as sad for them (eg Ben Cousins) as I do others, like Majak.
its not impossible to quantify. Im not saying its simple, but a psychiatrist studies for about 20 years and the brain is just an organ. saying its impossible to quantify is adding to the mystification IMHO. Ostis Pubis is hard to quantify, doesn't stop them taking a guess.

and Im not looking down on any blokes self-medicating through booze drugs and punting. I do it all the time.

Im just saying that Majak jumping off a bridge is on different bit of the mental illness spectrum than say Buddy missing the finals and that by just saying

'mental health',

we are muddying the waters. A broken and displaced femur is very different to hamstring awareness, so we don't say 'leg health', is my point.
 

lukeanddad

Tiger Champion
Nov 17, 2008
2,778
34
its not impossible to quantify. Im not saying its simple, but a psychiatrist studies for about 20 years and the brain is just an organ. saying its impossible to quantify is adding to the mystification IMHO. Ostis Pubis is hard to quantify, doesn't stop them taking a guess.

and Im not looking down on any blokes self-medicating through booze drugs and punting. I do it all the time.

Im just saying that Majak jumping off a bridge is on different bit of the mental illness spectrum than say Buddy missing the finals and that by just saying

'mental health',

we are muddying the waters. A broken and displaced femur is very different to hamstring awareness, so we don't say 'leg health', is my point.
I lived with someone who suffered from depression for a decade. Some weeks were good, most were horrible. There were no psychs around prepared to say that if she was treated with A, B and C, she could go back to work...

Let's agree to disagree. (The good news is that for the most part, I agree with your material.)
 

The Big Richo

Moderator
Aug 19, 2010
940
73
The home of Dusty
I don't think the comparison stands up because we don't reveal the true nature of most physical injuries and we definitely don't if the player wouldn't be comfortable having the information shared in public.

I also don't think the questioning the validity of mental health issues based on circumstances is sound either.

Just because the responsibility for circumstances lies with the individual, doesn't preclude them from suffering issues because of the same circumstances.
 
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TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
17,948
88
Had a young bloke 19 from work topped himself last week. Seemed a chirpy enough young fella n no - one had any idea he had any issues, certainly not serious enough to call quitting time. As far as we know, he never spoke to anyone at work about any issues or to the free counselling service the company provides.

I'm old school n always run along the harden up princess line of thinking, but I'm just gunna shut the **** up when mental health issues hit the boards. Might chirp the club
( Colonwood ) over the deal they did. but I'm leaving comments about the person well alone.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,031
283
I lived with someone who suffered from depression for a decade. Some weeks were good, most were horrible. There were no psychs around prepared to say that if she was treated with A, B and C, she could go back to work...

Let's agree to disagree. (The good news is that for the most part, I agree with your material.)
Happy to leave it there and agree that mental illness is nasty and dangerous.
 

Stylo

Tiger Champion
Oct 13, 2012
3,494
8
I think TigerForce is entitled to be cynical about the mental health card.

Im not saying mental illness isnt dreadful and prevalent and deserving of understanding and compassion.

Im also not saying Beams isnt suffering poor mental health.

However, players and clubs always say they are bravely trying to demystify and destigmatise it, but then just say

'he's taking an indefinite break due to mental health'

its actually mystifying it.

when a bloke has a syndiamosis injury, he doesn't go

'im stepping away due to a poor skeletal health'

If they really want to demystify it, they would go, for example

'He's been diagnosed with bipolar and has been self-medicating with booze and punting. The docs are onto it and working to stabilise his mood and we are doing some cognitive work, hoping to lay a foundation for some positive lifestyle change and long-term health. He should be right in 6-8 weeks'
I'm not sure if you're serious but in case you are, and with due respect, that is completely ridiculous. Mental health issues are indefinite by nature with complex causes and symptoms. You can't compare them to physical injuries with precise diagnoses/prognoses. They're also very private and personal by nature. Fans have no entitlement to know the finer details.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
10,031
283
I'm not sure if you're serious but in case you are, and with due respect, that is completely ridiculous. Mental health issues are indefinite by nature with complex causes and symptoms. You can't compare them to physical injuries with precise diagnoses/prognoses. They're also very private and personal by nature. Fans have no entitlement to know the finer details.
Physical health issues are indefinite by nature with complex causes and symptoms too.

newsflash, the brain is physical.

Thats the point im making.

mental/physical are inextricably linked, and as long as we segregate mental health as private and personal,

it stays stigmatised, misunderstood, undiagnosed, and unnecessarily deadly.
 

craig

Tiger Legend
Aug 19, 2004
24,055
238
melbourne
Shame for Dayne if its fair dinkum, and best to him.

I'm just stoked theres a few hundred thousand $$ less in the cap with him returning to Collingwood and I hope like heck it helps cost them Brodie Grundy cos that will be the end of them.
 

Stylo

Tiger Champion
Oct 13, 2012
3,494
8
Physical health issues are indefinite by nature with complex causes and symptoms too.

newsflash, the brain is physical.

Thats the point im making.

mental/physical are inextricably linked, and as long as we segregate mental health as private and personal,

it stays stigmatised, misunderstood, undiagnosed, and unnecessarily deadly.
So because the brain is physical mental health is comparable to physical health?
 

Saladin

Better to fight for something than live for nothin
Oct 1, 2003
1,298
2
Joe Citizens cynicism with AFL clubs, and indeed the AFL is unfortunately a given due to the fact that over the years they have been less than truthful about any number of issues.

Beams has had a history of mental health issues so it is likely not a smokescreen, and it is entirely possible that gambling issues are part of the overall picture of his ongoing struggle with mental health.

All that aside...I am very happy to see Collingwood implode...
 
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