lamb22 said:
Long post Redders, pity its based on a wrong premise. Does anyone ever read other peoples's posts before rambling aimlessly about their favourite topics or scapegoats. I never said said Gaspar was the best kick at Richmond or the most skilled player at Richmond. I said he was the straightest kick. The reason he is such a straight kick is ironically because he has such a laboured and mechanical ball drop. The non natural ball drop however means that Gaspar lacks touch and really cant kick around corners, so when you see Gaspar attack the ball and run clear you can guarantee that he will kick it where he is facing 9 times out of ten (whether it is to Richmond's advantage or not).
That same characteristic however makes him a very good shot at goal. Regarding your lecture to me in mathematics, bluster doesn't cut it with me, if you want to prove my maths is askew you will need to provide me with some objective criteria. One way would be to show me how many other league footballers who have had 30 -50 shots at goal have a 70% goal kicking record and how many who have not. I think you will find gaspar is in the top 10% at least. If you cant be bothered doing the exercise I suggest you instead exercise some humility in future.
For what it's worth I'd rate Gaspar a C- in field kicking and an A in goal kicking making him a B- kick overall.
This thread wasn't about overall skill in a player but since you raised the topic a footballer posesses a whole range of skill. One is the ability to close down on an opponent and get in a spoil without infringing. Gaspar gets an A. One is the ability to use your body in a marking contest to prevent your opponent getting the ball. Gaspar gets an A. One is clean hands in the marking contest - Gaspar gets an A. One is the ability to keep the ball in front of you in a loose ball situation in defence - Gaspar gets an A. One is the ability to play on small and tall alike - Gaspar gets an A. One is to stop your opponent getting the ball - Gaspar gets an A. One is the courage to put his body on the line time after time - Gaspar gets an A . And even though you have bagged his use by hand, I cant agree, solid B as a handballer.
You know sometimes the term 'pearls before swine' drifts about in my head. We have been priviledged to see one of the leagues best full back's strut his stuff week after week and without doubt Richmonds greatest ever full back and we winge and moan and pontificate with our superior football intellect and cant actually sit back and say isn't it great to see a great full back play. He would have been awesome in a good team, probably would have got 5 all australians. He has had to cover for some of the most inept excuses for footballers who have shared defensive duties with him these last 10 years which meant that he had to try and cover two or sometimes three players rather than just the team's best forward and his judgement time after time in these situations was impeccable. His worth, for anyone who understood the game, was clearly demonstrated when he went down in round 10 of 2003 with a knee. Up until that point Richmond had the least points kicked against it (even though we were only 6 wins 4 losses )and Gaspar was blitzing. I immediately thought we were stuffed and we of course were. We then had the most points scored against in the rest of the year and in 2004 when Gaspar was but a mere shadow of himself playing with an unrecovered injury.
FFS Silvagni was a woeful kick and yet considered the full back of the century and I loved watching him play as well - aweome player.
Try seeing (and reading posts) with your eyes and support Richmond's best ever full back and one of the best to ever pull on a tiger guernsey.
My post was long ! Geez ! Have you seen what you've just put up !
Firstly, the original post by Linus WAS about overall skill Lamb Chops. Check the first paragraph. That is what I have rated Gaspar on. Not goal kicking….and not ‘straight kicking’ either, which you are using to defend Gaspar’s poor overall skill level.
And just clear something up for me: what exactly does ‘straight kick’ mean anyway ? I can kick the ball ‘straight’ but if it goes over my team mate’s head, or fall’s short of him, or goes ‘straight’ to an opponent, is it a good kick ? No. Focus on how many times Gaspar’s disposals are EFFECTIVE or how many clangers he makes and not all this wishy washy garbage about ‘straight’ kicks or a 70% conversion rate from a pissy 33 shots on goal over a long career.
As Rosy says, she can have 1 shot on goal and make it, and therefore have a 100% conversion rate. Does that make Rosy skilful ? Maybe she is (!) but I’d need further proof !
Lamb Chops, I don’t have to compare Gaspar against other players with a similar amount of attempts (33 or so) because it is completely and utterly irrelevant because of the very simple fact that your sample is way…way... too small. Comparing Gaspar against Bill Smith who has also had 33 shots on goal means absolutely jack sh*t unless you’ve got hundreds of Bill Smith’s. Now comparing Gaspar and Bill Smith who both had 500 shots on goal each, that would mean something. I should have been more specific: its not a maths lesson you need, but a lesson in fundamental statistics. Rating Gaspar as an “A” in goal kicking based on such a low amount of attempts is completely flawed. I suggest you exercise some humility in the application of basic statistics in the future.
Again, the thread IS about overall skill. Looking at some of these other skills that you nominate of Gaspar’s to promote his standing in this regard , I can see where such items as “clean hands in the marking contest” and “keeping the ball in front of you in a loose ball situation” could be considered skills. Fair enough. But how you rate those sorts of skills is highly subjective i.e. how do you measure it ? I could throw in just as many subjective skills like peripheral vision, decision making etc. and say that he was crap in those. At least something like effective disposal is a clear and objective measurement of skill.
Also, since when has “the courage to put his body on the line” ever been considered a skill ? Just where are you drawing the line as to what is considered as being a skill ? Gee, I might go down to the park at lunch time and practice my courage........
You keep drifting to all this non specific and again highly subjective stuff like he’s “Richmond’s best ever full back” ….back blah blah…Again, as Rosy's pointed out nobody’s saying he isn’t a good full back. Again, we’re talking purely about his skill level. I admire your fondness of Gaspar. That’s great. But you’re getting all defensive over the issue of his skill and drifting off the topic by making broad generalisations about how he plays and carrying on as if nobody rates him in any regard at all. That’s not the case. He’s a great stopper. For the most part he’s done his job whilst at Richmond. But sticking specifically to the topic of whether he could be regarded as a skilful player - in the context of what that means to most people - then no. I don’t believe he is.
Incidentally, Gaspar the greatest full back we’ve ever had ? Yet another big call by you Lamb Chops. Team of the Century full-back Vic Thorpe played 263 games for Richmond. 2 times best and fairest winner. 2 times premiership player. AFL Hall of Fame member. Represented Victoria 14 times. But I’ll leave that statement and its level of accuracy up to others.
. It's hardly a 50/50 scenario.
