By Jobe he's lucky he's not a Tiger

[Bill James]

Not one mention of the #8 draft pick amongst them.


[quote author= link=topic=25827.msg592531#msg592531 date=1182338569]
Lucky he was our number one pick two years ago or he would be gone.

[/quote]

 

[Skills]

Maybe we should get off their backs and support them.

The Richmond members have given 30K reasons this year in support of the players.

 

[Rosy]

I edited your post to make sense BJ. There was no need to quote my entire post.   I offer my sincere apologies for stuffing up by posting an inaccurate comment  but I'm happy you were kind enough to correct a mere farmer . :sheep  Still doesn't alter the fact that what santa claimed was piffle.  I could find plenty more quotes to replace the incorrect one but I'm sure most people understand my point. :baa

 

[Rosy]

The Richmond members have given 30K reasons this year in support of the players.

Going by that logic there must be quite a few non-members on PRE. ;D

 

[craig]

Our kids struggle cos apart from Brown and Richo the rest of the senior core are not leaders as far as i am concerned.

The tigers so called Senior Players simply do not measure up to these senior groups!

Adelaide- Ricciuto, McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Johncock, Rutten

WCE - Judd, Kerr, Cox, Cousins, Embley, Glass, Stenglein etc

Stk - Hayes, Ball, Del Santo, Riewoldt, and Harvey.

Gee - Ling, Bartel, Scarlett, Harley, Chapman, Corey, Ablett, Milburn.

Port - Chad and Kane Cornes, Tredrea, Peter and Shaun Burgoyne, Lade

Sydney - Kirk, Hall, Goodes, J Bolton, OKeefe, Barry, Kennelly.


Our leaders just dont stack up against groups such as these and thats why these guys are all part of successful sides and our leaders have been anchored around the also rans and the basement for the majority of their careers.

Its also one of the major reasons the tigers struggle to develop our juniors. LACK OF REAL LEADERSHIP.

 

[Bill James]

once again people confuse criticism of the processes we have taken with criticism of players. i havent seen anywhere people calling for jon head. i have seen plenty of posts asking the wisdom of useing pick 8 on him though.

Piffle santa. Check the examples below I found in a very quick search. Not one mention of the #8 draft pick amongst them. There has been plenty of criticism of JON. I realise there's plenty of support for our kids too and the following examples are just due to comments on this thread. The thread isn't aimed at anyone in oparticular, just food for thought for all of us.

There are plenty of questions on taking on JON at 8, far more than calls for his head. Check the examples below I found in a very quick search.

His kicking action is what worries me. Just don't think he will ever be able to put any pace on the ball through the air, gets under them and chips. At number 8, these queries should not happen.

Don't worry about the blokes you named not doing so well look at the blokes picked after him in the next seven picks.

2005 9 Mitchell Clark Brisbane
2005 10 Marcus Drum Fremantle
2005 11 Shaun Higgins Western Bulldogs
2005 12 Nathan Jones Melbourne
2005 13 Shannon Hurn West Coast
2005 14 Grant Birchall Hawthorn
2005 15 Travis Varcoe Geelong
2005 16 Richard Douglas Adelaide

All shown a bit more then JON (bar Drum) and that is why I say he is coming on slow. Not that he is not going to make it but I have massive question marks over this pick at this stage.

Thanks guys so far there is no one under JOn I guess who has showed anything great either!!!
I too thought we would have picked up Mitch CLark I dont understand Wallet's hate for tall players KPP?

Your kidding.

Drum, HIGGINS and Jones, to start with are ahead IMO.

HIGGINS should have been top 10.

However Drum should have been our pick. A defender with body weight.

On who was in that draft i haven’t gone looking so just by memory when the draft was on i was thinking we would get Mitch Clarke who went 1 pick after JON to the lions....At the time i thought it was strange as we needed big tall men but accepted the decision on JON even though i didn't know to much about him. Other players who went in that draft please forgive me if im wrong but Higgins (bulldogs) and Shannon hurn eagles both went at picks 11 and 13 for memory.....

This is only his second season so lets give the kid a break i think he has what it takes to be a very good player but perhaps sometime next year he will need to start cementing a regular place in the side to justify his top 10 pick....

willing to give jon a chance but at the time is was a puzzling selection and still is so until he can prove me wrong i will still feel this way

Miller can i ask why we took a small with our most important draft pick instead of a quality tall such as Clark or Mills, Drum or Bower when they were all availabvle along with Hughes.

The RFC desperately needs future key Forwards and Backs and at least we got Hughes however we most certainly should have taken Mills and the fact that the Lions have taken Mills and Clark makes me very annoyed and leaves me with the sense of resignation that the tigers are not going anywhere for a few years yet in fact i am positive about that.

And yep be advised i am going to be comparing Oakley Nicholls against Mills, Clark, Drum, and Bower for the next few years to see how he goes, while the tigers lament in the bottom half if not bottom third of the ladder.

How did the teams go in the draft?

Here's my opinion on each team.

Richmond, 2 1/2 of 3 - Oakley-Nicholls (W) is 50/50. Hughes (FF) is a quality player. Casserly (HBF) will be fine.

So that's how I see it.
I welcome your comments.

... would have preferred

- Hurn - 8
- Hughes - 24

I know we were gonna go with a mid-fielder if the kpp's were gone, but we overpaid for JON. Has good pace, reasonable skill level, but would have much preferred 3 or 4 others.

Very dissapointed we overlooked the likes of Hurn and Drum ,genuine footballer's type footballers for a more speculative fellow in Oakley Nichols.He does have speed and versatility but I'm not convinced he is definately an AFL player.He does potentially have good upside though.Time will tell.

 

[geoffryprettyboy]

Our kids struggle cos apart from Brown and Richo the rest of the senior core are not leaders as far as i am concerned.

The tigers so called Senior Players simply do not measure up to these senior groups!

Adelaide- Ricciuto, McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Johncock, Rutten

WCE - Judd, Kerr, Cox, Cousins, Embley, Glass, Stenglein etc

Stk - Hayes, Ball, Del Santo, Riewoldt, and Harvey.

Gee - Ling, Bartel, Scarlett, Harley, Chapman, Corey, Ablett, Milburn.

Port - Chad and Kane Cornes, Tredrea, Peter and Shaun Burgoyne, Lade

Sydney - Kirk, Hall, Goodes, J Bolton, OKeefe, Barry, Kennelly.


Our leaders just dont stack up against groups such as these and thats why these guys are all part of successful sides and our leaders have been anchored around the also rans and the basement for the majority of their careers.

Its also one of the major reasons the tigers struggle to develop our juniors. LACK OF REAL LEADERSHIP.

This is the post of the year Craig, very well summarised :clap and it's exactly why we are crap on the field.

If we take Collingwood for example, when we look at their youngsters this year, they play with inspiration, with determination to get the job done. Is it because the recruiters have nailed their drafts? Maybe, but the support is given by their much more superior senior leaders when compared to the tigers.

I'll take it one step further and say that Malthouse is miles ahead a better coach than Wallace, with more tricks up his sleeve than our spin doctor.

 

[the claw]

I edited your post to make sense BJ. There was no need to quote my entire post. I offer my sincere apologies for stuffing up by posting an inaccurate comment but I'm happy you were kind enough to correct a mere farmer . :sheep Still doesn't alter the fact that what santa claimed was piffle. I could find plenty more quotes to replace the incorrect one but I'm sure most people understand my point. :baa

rosmerta i could be splittng hairs but the way i read the jon situation is as i posted. but yes i do agree jon has copped criticism mainly along the lines of deficiencies. its these short comings that had people questioning where we took jon in the first place.

 

[Rosy]

There are plenty of questions on taking on JON at 8, far more than calls for his head. Check the examples below I found in a very quick search.

Well what a lot of trouble you went to for nothing. :hihi I didn't for one second infer there were no posts discussing JON's draft position, we all know there are. I was specifically responding to santa's comment.

i havent seen anywhere people calling for jon head.

People have said JON is gone and a dud, not going to make it, not worth having etc based on what they've seen rather than the fact he was a first pick.

P.S. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

 

[clown]

The only players at RFC that match the Jobe Watson underperforming 20yo profile are Meyer and possibly White. The calls for blood on PRE are more often for the 22-24yo who don't contribute not the 20yo Jobe Watsons.

Tambo is one who comes to mind who's younger than Jobe and cops a fair pasting on here. People seem to demand perfection and game dominance from Lids yet he's 2 years younger than Jobe, and has performed far better in his early years. Gus has just come off the rookie list and not even played a senior game yet some have posted that he won't make it. There's a chance Jobe would develop faster than a player like Jay. Talls can take longer but he's also had far better support around him.

It just seems to me people can be pretty quick to sink the boots into kids, especially those with higher profiles where expectations of early success are often higher, and that a player with Jobe's early history would have copped a fair bit on here when a bit of patience would have been justified. It's just as well this is only an opinion forum and that others' actually manage the players. ;D

Still this thread wasn't really about Jobe, he was just an example, it was more about getting behind the kids and giving them a chance rather than writing them off too early. :baa

I think most people who bag Tambling do so out of frustration more than any thing because we all know he can play and has the talent but cant seem to put it all together for a full game. He does also seem lazy in his efforts and fails to use his pace when he hasn't got the ball to apply pressure or get to a contest. Having said that i still think he'll be a gun.

 

[benny_furs]

Great thread Rosy :clap

I agree with you. The ineptitude of older players has left the supporters clinging to the youngsters to bring us success. If the youngsters don't meet these (unfair) expectations it seems they get more than their fair share of bagging.

It is perfectly fine to critisise players in a reasonable manner. The sheer volume of uproar on some players is what frustrates me.

JON for example has shown some wonderful signs at Coburg that he will be a good-very good player. If you have only seen Coburg on TV then you saw his two worst matches of the year. The point is a lot of supporters don't believe he will ever be able to help our team win a premiership. It is far to early to make this prediction and as Rosy did I point to Jobe Watson as an example of where many of our players could be over the next 18 months.

 

[Elmer]

Our kids struggle cos apart from Brown and Richo the rest of the senior core are not leaders as far as i am concerned.

Joel Bowden is a (good) leader at RFC.

 

[the claw]

There are plenty of questions on taking on JON at 8, far more than calls for his head. Check the examples below I found in a very quick search.

Well what a lot of trouble you went to for nothing. :hihi I didn't for one second infer there were no posts discussing JON's draft position, we all know there are. I was specifically responding to santa's comment.

i havent seen anywhere people calling for jon head.

People have said JON is gone and a dud, not going to make it, not worth having etc based on what they've seen rather than the fact he was a first pick.

P.S. Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

Instead of say ing i havent heard anyone calling for jons head perhaps i should have said few have called for his head and in the main people question where we took him in the draft.

craig of course you are right about the senior players hence the incessaant bagging from many posters myself included.unfortunately we are stuck with most of them until most of the kids enter that 23 thru 27yo age bracket.unfortunately we dont even have kids on the list for a lot of positions. another reason why our kids struggle so much is the lack of big bodies and right player types in key positions. as i said at the start of the yr wallace has taken the list from plain horrible to just plain poor.so in effect we are basically still in the very early stages of rebuild. structurally he has got plenty wrong i hope this improves over the next couple of drafts.

finally benny jon showed he had talent at junior level on occasions he is going to show talent at coburg. criticisms of skills kicking in particular inability to findthe ball his body shape he was a stick are all reasonable criticisms.

finally on tambling i would say 95% of supporters are reasonably happy with him. quite clearly he suffers because of the comparisons with franklin for what its worth id rather franklin but i dont have a problem with richie or how he has developed so far. theres room for lots more improvement in the kid and it will come when he gets better players with bigger bodies around him and he gets bigger and stronger himself.

danny meyer is another copping it at the moment. danny was drafted as a flanker he was never a big ball winner something i would normally not overlook with early picks and he was and still is very skinny. one always had to ask did he have the frame to adequately bulk up.
i was critical when we drafted him preferred others, but was happy to get him because of his skills. dannys inability to bulk up and his inability to find the ball are killing him at afl level the question that has to be asked is. can he improve in these areas i think with some bulk improvement of his motor and played of a hbf or in a run with role meyer has improvement in him. i would give him one more yr but the clock is ticking for danny.

 

[tigertim]

At the end of 2005 I thought Jobe was one we could have gone after and just hope that at a new club he would have turned it around ( as he has since done at Essendon). This scenario is the best you can hope for when trading players and lower draft picks, the diamond in the rough.

 

[craig]

Our kids struggle cos apart from Brown and Richo the rest of the senior core are not leaders as far as i am concerned.

Joel Bowden is a (good) leader at RFC.

Not in the same class as leaders at other clubs, and is one of the most overated and protected players at RFC.

Is one of the reasons this side has gone nowhere ................... bit like Joels emassed cheap BS possessions in defence.

 

[Scoop]

I find this thread particularly amusing for no end of reasons. ;D

 

[Rosy]

The timing might have been a tad out. :hihi

 

[Scoop]

It was funny regardless of today's result.