Carltony | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Carltony

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
17,874
Melbourne
This "freedom" call I read everywhere is a bit of a crock IMO. We all give up certain freedoms when we choose to live in a community. Some freedoms are given up by law, some because we understand living in a community means we should think of others as well as ourselves in certain instances. I might like playing loud music at 4am but I'm pretty sure my neighbours don't. So I choose not to do it. If I did it, I'd expect a knock on the door from the cops at some stage to say turn it down/off. When I park my car on the street I think of my neighbours when I park. I don't take up 2 spots, I don't park too from the curb etc.

This freedom call is also incredibly one sided.

They are asking for the freedom to not get a vaccine.

What about my freedom to not get infected by the unvaccinated?

No-one is taking away their freedom to choose not to be vaccinated, they are just reaping what they sow - unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus and the responsible thing for them to do is to not be out and about and to specifically avoid certain situations such as large crowds, close contact with others etc. Their choice not to be vaccinated comes with consequences - welcome to the consequences Liam.

DS
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
They could, but that would negatively
affect their grandmother's quality of life. Which, because vaccinated people arent selfish ( in this regard), they don't want to do.

You also ignored my questions.
Well I would have thought it’s up to the people involved to determine what quality of life is, and what risk appetite or mitigations they deem appropriate. Not 3rd parties that are obsessed with controlling other people they know nothing about and are so arrogant that they think they know better.

I didn’t answer them because I assumed they were retorical.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
This freedom call is also incredibly one sided.

They are asking for the freedom to not get a vaccine.

What about my freedom to not get infected by the unvaccinated?

No-one is taking away their freedom to choose not to be vaccinated, they are just reaping what they sow - unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the virus and the responsible thing for them to do is to not be out and about and to specifically avoid certain situations such as large crowds, close contact with others etc. Their choice not to be vaccinated comes with consequences - welcome to the consequences Liam.

DS
If you don’t want to risk getting sick, then you are more than free to stay at home.
 
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gold1

Tiger Champion
Feb 24, 2008
2,809
1,129
No semantics. You oppose restrictions on free speech unless it is against the law. Shouldn't you oppose laws which restrict free speech? Or do you pick and choose when free speech is worth fighting for?
Interesting conundrum that.What is worth fighting for?As individuals that we are having full consensus is not possible.There will always be someone who feels left out/shortchanged and so on.But laying down and accepting all and sundry without question seems to me to be retrograde.Do all those in power enact laws for altruistic reasons?I think not.The more compliant a society the easier it is to control especially with a good dose of fear.New normal?Or Brave New World with a touch of 1984........
 
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MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,329
13,709
Interesting conundrum that.What is worth fighting for?As individuals that we are having full consensus is not possible.There will always be someone who feels left out/shortchanged and so on.But laying down and accepting all and sundry without question seems to me to be retrograde.Do all those in power enact laws for altruistic reasons?I think not.The more compliant a society the easier it is to control especially with a good dose of fear.New normal?Or Brave New World with a touch of 1984........
Are you forgetting that you have a vote?

So if you get the vaccine are you suggesting you've laid down? And its all a big power play, orchestrated by big business and government?

Do you think this is some big plan to have rolling pandemics so these powers can be used? That's what the people controlling the big companies/governments want - a series of rolling pandemics where the world is basically *smile*, where prices/demand are completely unpredictable, where travel could be stopped and restrictions are another distinct possibility etc? Brilliant.
 
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Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,113
18,923
I hate Carlton so much that I take joy in seeing their thread derailed.
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
21,912
26,417
Melbourne
The question of what is safe and what is not safe is not objective. It is for you alone to determine what is safe for you and others to determine what is safe for them.
And besides, if David finds you a threat to his safety he has the right to kill you. Laws are tyranny.
 
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Jake

Tiger Superstar
Apr 2, 2005
1,998
1,206
I hate Carlton so much that I take joy in seeing their thread derailed.

It's been unreal how *smile* they have been for so long. What did Shed say? I love playing in Carlton’s Grand Final every year.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
And besides, if David finds you a threat to his safety he has the right to kill you. Laws are tyranny.
Well David doesn’t even believe in his own ownership of his own body so I’m not sure why he has anything to complain about in regards to his safety.
 

gold1

Tiger Champion
Feb 24, 2008
2,809
1,129
Are you forgetting that you have a vote?

So if you get the vaccine are you suggesting you've laid down? And its all a big power play, orchestrated by big business and government?

Do you think this is some big plan to have rolling pandemics so these powers can be used? That's what the people controlling the big companies/governments want - a series of rolling pandemics where the world is basically *smile*, where prices/demand are completely unpredictable, where travel could be stopped and restrictions are another distinct possibility etc? Brilliant.
Your last word brilliant says it all.You have made up your mind that is where I am coming from.Because all you have posted here could not possibly be true.could it?Or could it?And on the having a vote thing that has been manipulated for years.How? Branch stacking,removing the first past the post that has led to many getting elected when fewer people voted for the person in the first place.And why is it that the majority of elected reps around the world come from legal backgrounds?(there's some homework for you)

Lastly as we only have ten days to the draft can I suggest to those interested that they obtain two books written probably before most Pres here were born and reflect the mood and sentiment of 50 years ago(yea I know it is not a book forum but it is pertinent to this discussion ATM).

First: The Doomsday Book by Gorden Rattray Taylor.A hard find but well worth the effort and it's relevancy to today.

Second: Small is Beautiful by E.F.Schumacher,more readily found .A study of economics as if people mattered.

Feedback more than welcome.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,661
11,699
You're restricting my freedom to safely go out.

DS
Don't forget Gman thinks people should be able to drive at whatever speed they like, drive on which ever side of the road they like, shoot guns whenever they like, throw rocks at people etc etc, and it is only when someone actually gets hurt that you should get in any trouble, and only then if the victim can find you and has the money to take you to a private court.
i can understand why he would oppose mandatory vaccination, while supporting the rights of people to sue whoever transmits Covid, or any other disease, to them.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
17,661
11,699
Interesting conundrum that.What is worth fighting for?As individuals that we are having full consensus is not possible.There will always be someone who feels left out/shortchanged and so on.But laying down and accepting all and sundry without question seems to me to be retrograde.Do all those in power enact laws for altruistic reasons?I think not.The more compliant a society the easier it is to control especially with a good dose of fear.New normal?Or Brave New World with a touch of 1984........
i am still confused. should the right to freedom of speech absolute or not? or is it dictated by the government through laws? or dictated by societies moral code? or an individuals?
 

HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
Im a fit person, a bloody fit person.
Good on you Frick for the double jab.
Sorry to hear about the drama it has caused you.
But you are a good case of reason.
Do you now think that you stand a better chance of survival when you get covid in the future?
Did you consider getting the second jab because your body cannot handle the virus? Or did you think you'll never catch it in the future because of who you are ie fit and healthy?
I hear this crap about the fit and healthy don't need it because they work on keeping themselves in good shape and they are not likely to be badly effected. I'm pretty sure covid doesn't give a *smile*.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
I think you'll find Doctors are allowed to follow any line they choose, as long as it is factual and not part of the spread of misinformation.
They will be deregistered on the spot if they do not recommend taking a COVID shot and also for not taking one themselves.
 
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HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
So you can't back your claim. That's ok.

Cases in the mostly vaccinated countries like UK and in West Europe are still high. The good news is that hospitalisation and deaths are down which is a good result for the vax but transmission is still significant.
That's right Harry, I think.
The answer is get vaxed cause your going to get the virus.
 
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mjb

Tiger Matchwinner
Jun 23, 2007
576
452
removing the first past the post that has led to many getting elected when fewer people voted for the person in the first place.

Feedback more than welcome.
First past the post is an inherently flawed system. If you have 10 candidates (not that uncommon) it’s possible to be elected with 11% of the vote.
 
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