CHF Poll

[gold1]

All our forwards are playing at Coburg.Enough said

 

[the claw]

WOW for once we agree although i believe we do have some that are capable enough to play KPF. For some reason Wallace just won't put a proper forward and defensive setup in. Always chooses a munchkin forward line and for the life of me can't understand destroying a kids confidence (Thursfield) that in the previous season played quite well as a tall KPD.

Wallace this year has left me at a loss.

what youve just woken up ive been saying this sort of stuff for yrs now all of a sudden people agree. i wonder what else you will end up agreeing with.
not having a go its just damn annoying ive been consistent on what subbjects i comment on on this site and its holy cow i agree.

 

[Inspector]

It's not the quick kick out of the centre when you need a good CHF it's when the guys get the ball at half back run look up then to the side backwards etc knowone presenting for them to kick to this is why we breakdown need someone to back themselves & lead up to the guys bringing the ball from half back. This is why i'm so annoyed with Tambling not that he is a CHF but he has pace & can break away from his opponent but doesn't lead up & demand the footy Riewoldt needs to be developed in this role which was perfect for Polak or maybe Post with Vickery & Gourdis playing deep forward.

 

[Motown]

I voted "Other".

Although we have Roughead and Franklin, they usually stay anchored in the fifty mostly while our HFFs do the old CHF hit-up role with wingers cutting across the middle offering options too. In fact in 06-07, one could make an argument for Tim Clarke being our CHF as he would do a ridiculous amount of running trying to present an option for those coming out of the backline. When we're down on this we're usually screwed and we play pretty much like 05-06 with endless chipping around HB, looking for an option.

I suppose the thinking behind this is that it's better to have hard working outside mids (Bateman, Young etc) /HFFs (Rioli, Osborne, Williams) with superior delivery skills, than athletic big guys who you can hit-up but may not have the incisive skills required to get good ball into the fifty(eg Miller of Melb). I think Geelong, for example, mainly use Johnson in the bridging role from defence/middle to attack as evidenced by his scoring involvement stats. Mooney can, but usually stays closer to goal rather than roaming high to present.

This is not to say the position is "dead", but it's probably only an exceedingly small set of players who'd be able to fulfill the traditional role adequately in the modern game. Big guys with huge motors, capable of taking a contested grab, kick goals from distance while being skillful enough to pierce a zone defense by foot don't exactly fall off trees. Brown, Riewoldt and Pavlich are the only examples that come to mind.

 

[Streak]

The answer to this poll seems pretty straight forward to me. If we had a modern day version of Royce Hart, we'd be playing finals year after year.

 

[Leysy Days]

Well said there Motown. Put leysy's obs down very well.

Wouldn't have Brown as what was known as a CHF though.

He's done most of his work well inside the forward 50 for a long time.

Pavlich & Reiwoldt are the only two that play the old school CHF position. Even then they both play other "roles" regularly. i.e Pav through the midfield or Reiwoldt from the square.

 

[Motown]

Wouldn't have Brown as what was known as a CHF though.

He's done most of his work well inside the forward 50 for a long time.

Yeah, but he will go high when things get particularly dire, particularly if Bradshaw's in the side. Doesn't do it often but is capable of it, nonetheless.

Cloke's probably a better example, all be it little success this year for whatever reason. He roams far and wide.

 

[Leysy Days]

Yeah, but he will go high when things get particularly dire, particularly if Bradshaw's in the side. Doesn't do it often but is capable of it, nonetheless.

Cloke's probably a better example, all be it little success this year for whatever reason. He roams far and wide.

As a bit of an indicator Browns taken more contested marks, had less possessions & a lot less inside 50's than the other two. Indicates where he is spending the majority of his time. If he's not doing going high often CHF's not his regular position ILO.

On Cloke, yes wide. Very wide.

 

[shamekha]

what youve just woken up ive been saying this sort of stuff for yrs now all of a sudden people agree. i wonder what else you will end up agreeing with.
not having a go its just damn annoying ive been consistent on what subbjects i comment on on this site and its holy cow i agree.

When i say i agree i agree with the lack of forward setup Wallace is using. i still disagree on what you say about our forward players we have in the system (Shulz)

 

[the claw]

I voted "Other".

Although we have Roughead and Franklin, they usually stay anchored in the fifty mostly while our HFFs do the old CHF hit-up role with wingers cutting across the middle offering options too. In fact in 06-07, one could make an argument for Tim Clarke being our CHF as he would do a ridiculous amount of running trying to present an option for those coming out of the backline. When we're down on this we're usually screwed and we play pretty much like 05-06 with endless chipping around HB, looking for an option.

I suppose the thinking behind this is that it's better to have hard working outside mids (Bateman, Young etc) /HFFs (Rioli, Osborne, Williams) with superior delivery skills, than athletic big guys who you can hit-up but may not have the incisive skills required to get good ball into the fifty(eg Miller of Melb). I think Geelong, for example, mainly use Johnson in the bridging role from defence/middle to attack as evidenced by his scoring involvement stats. Mooney can, but usually stays closer to goal rather than roaming high to present.

This is not to say the position is "dead", but it's probably only an exceedingly small set of players who'd be able to fulfill the traditional role adequately in the modern game. Big guys with huge motors, capable of taking a contested grab, kick goals from distance while being skillful enough to pierce a zone defense by foot don't exactly fall off trees. Brown, Riewoldt and Pavlich are the only examples that come to mind.

i dont get this every one talks as if its been unusual for good chfs to spend most of their time 40 to 6o metres out. the good ones do spend most of their time in the forward 50. the good ones perform all roles hit up stay at home move to chb if need be. the dunstall brereton combo dunstall out of the square kicking 100 dermott mainly at true chf kicking 60. hart goalkicker carey brown vanderhaar knights brown riewoldt etc etc etc they all played huge chunks of games in the 50 and most had an accomplished ff to compliment them.

we can make up new names for this and that hit up stay at home etc but good chfs are capable of both they always have.
and on the traditional posuition theme to me your flankers have always been hit up types and your fp goalsneaks. what has really changed so much.

all thats really changed is the advent of the interchange. in the old days your fp would be a resting rover the other pocket would be a resting ruckman if he was a good mark, giving you the third tall option forward. you would have two mostly permanent hff and the positon became known as the grave yard.

any way i digress call them what you like but basically today we have the same sort of structure that they had in the old days two tall strong marking players in the 50. in fact a lot of sides go extremely tall playing 3 talls week in week out.forward and back.
i think whats happened is there is no place for the old dinosaur anymore your talls have to be quick agile and good kicks and your kpp have to be very good marks to go with it. one things for sure they dont grow on trees they never have.

 

[the claw]

Leading FFs need speed, stay at home FFs don't. Patto needs to provide a contest for the smalls to pounce on, that he can do.

your ff also needs to be able to take strong marks or in pattos case just take a mark. intodays game hes also expected to chase and tackle.

sheesh what an excuse of a post for a dud player. your ff is primarily a stay at home player. he needs to be quick an excellent converter and good in the air. if your ff does not have these things you shoul;d be looking for someone who does.
if all you want is a bloke who gives a contest in the air and nothing else you might as well play a 7ft cardboard cut out for nuisance value.i would hazard a guess that 80% of a ff goals today come from a lead or a recieve.

 

[Leysy Days]

i dont get this every one talks as if its been unusual for good chfs to spend most of their time 40 to 6o metres out. the good ones do spend most of their time in the forward 50. the good ones perform all roles hit up stay at home move to chb if need be. the dunstall brereton combo dunstall out of the square kicking 100 dermott mainly at true chf kicking 60. hart goalkicker carey brown vanderhaar knights brown riewoldt etc etc etc they all played huge chunks of games in the 50 and most had an accomplished ff to compliment them.

we can make up new names for this and that hit up stay at home etc but good chfs are capable of both they always have.
and on the traditional posuition theme to me your flankers have always been hit up types and your fp goalsneaks. what has really changed so much.

all thats really changed is the advent of the interchange. in the old days your fp would be a resting rover the other pocket would be a resting ruckman if he was a good mark, giving you the third tall option forward. you would have two mostly permanent hff and the positon became known as the grave yard.

any way i digress call them what you like but basically today we have the same sort of structure that they had in the old days two tall strong marking players in the 50. in fact a lot of sides go extremely tall playing 3 talls week in week out.forward and back.
i think whats happened is there is no place for the old dinosaur anymore your talls have to be quick agile and good kicks and your kpp have to be very good marks to go with it. one things for sure they dont grow on trees they never have.

Fair enough Claw. The only point leysy would argu -

ILO in days gone by your CHF's were used far more as the link between defence/midfield & attack. Whether that be hitting a lead or kicking high to a contest, which weas definately far more prevalent.

To leysy your quicker better skilled players are being used more as this link to deep forward far more than what the key men used to. As leysy mentioned your O'Keefe, Chapman & Murphy types.

Its so more about the team creating space to lead into than before.

Saying that you definately need to structure up with enough talls of quality to provide a "high" outlet under pressure. This is where the Dogs have fallen down in big games.

But as you say they still need to have the agility to provide defensive pressure & be good kicks to both create & kick goals.

 

[Motown]

i dont get this every one talks as if its been unusual for good chfs to spend most of their time 40 to 6o metres out. the good ones do spend most of their time in the forward 50. the good ones perform all roles hit up stay at home move to chb if need be

When we play two-deep, they start at 20 and lead to forty, rinse and repeat. They don't hit up. When we play one-deep, he does the traditional FF role while the other roams laterally, by and large, in an arc 40-60 out. He doesn't hit up either. The fact that neither of our KPF's hit up like an old-school CHF was the point I was trying to make.

 

[IanG]

your ff also needs to be able to take strong marks or in pattos case just take a mark. intodays game hes also expected to chase and tackle.

sheesh what an excuse of a post for a dud player. your ff is primarily a stay at home player. he needs to be quick an excellent converter and good in the air. if your ff does not have these things you shoul;d be looking for someone who does.

I don't see that Patto is that much worse than say Mooney. All I want is for him to be given a go there, if the structure doesn't work fine. There's no point keeping Patto as a second ruck option which I think we can agree on.

 

[tigertim]

I voted for 'My Kingdom for a CHF". Also would have voted for "My Kingdom for a ruck" "My kingdom for a ff" My Kingdom for a ........

 

[Massai]

God it would be nice if we had a Choke, Carey, Hart sitting at CHF. We don't and we haven't had other than Richo and the recruiting area has failed miserably in finding a suitable replacement. No one is going to be the same as the Richo, but there has to be suitable CHF's out there in the wider world developing along nicely but somehow Richmond always seem to miss them.

 

[tigersnake]

Perhaps that just there is the larger issue Rosy....

on the CHF. Suprised leysy was the first to vote that they are extinct.

The position is definately finished as it was known.

Teams just dont play in that formation any longer.

Stay at home forwards, leadup forwards, crumbers, defensive smalls, power forwards etc are there in place.

The old CHF was a combination of the todays leadup forward & power forward.

O'Keefe, Pettifer, Murphy, Chapman etc are exponents of the first portion with varying success.

Your Browns, Rocca's, Tredrea's etc the second. They play a lot closer to goal than CHF.

Little question we need some of the 2nd. Well both really.

Reiwoldts the only young tall leysy has any confidence in being a long term player for us.

this post implies leysey that the olden day CHF was a clone, they were all the same. Like today, never were. Just off the top of my head from my childhood, Van der haar, cloke, McClure, Glendenning, Brereton all very different players. The superstar CHF has always been a rare beast, and highly variable characteristics. Generally there are only ever 6-8 in the comp, depending on how generous your assessments are.

 

[tigersnake]

i dont get this every one talks as if its been unusual for good chfs to spend most of their time 40 to 6o metres out. the good ones do spend most of their time in the forward 50. the good ones perform all roles hit up stay at home move to chb if need be. the dunstall brereton combo dunstall out of the square kicking 100 dermott mainly at true chf kicking 60. hart goalkicker carey brown vanderhaar knights brown riewoldt etc etc etc they all played huge chunks of games in the 50 and most had an accomplished ff to compliment them.

we can make up new names for this and that hit up stay at home etc but good chfs are capable of both they always have.
and on the traditional posuition theme to me your flankers have always been hit up types and your fp goalsneaks. what has really changed so much.

all thats really changed is the advent of the interchange. in the old days your fp would be a resting rover the other pocket would be a resting ruckman if he was a good mark, giving you the third tall option forward. you would have two mostly permanent hff and the positon became known as the grave yard.

any way i digress call them what you like but basically today we have the same sort of structure that they had in the old days two tall strong marking players in the 50. in fact a lot of sides go extremely tall playing 3 talls week in week out.forward and back.
i think whats happened is there is no place for the old dinosaur anymore your talls have to be quick agile and good kicks and your kpp have to be very good marks to go with it. one things for sure they dont grow on trees they never have.

I agree completely, except for the dinosaur part. I can't think of one champion CHF who slow and clumsy. Even Clokey got around deceptively alright in his youth, and he'd be the least agile I can remember. You definately had the odd dinosaur at CHB and FF.