China | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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China

TigerMasochist

Walks softly carries a big stick.
Jul 13, 2003
25,573
11,452
Don''t hear much of Hong Kong these days. Like they just disappeared off the planet. Dreadful.
Everybody in Honkers playing nicely n letting favourite Grandpa Xi have his afternoon nap in peace. Old Grandpa Xi gets fearsome grumpy if he don't get his nap time.
 

frickenel

Tiger Champion
Jul 30, 2003
2,628
1,886
Hidden Valley
They're a going to breed more & more true believers.


"An editorial in a Chinese state-run news website has suggested Communist party members are obliged to have three children for the good of the country, as Beijing seeks to address plummeting birthrates."


Good luck with this!

The Chinese middle class are in the process of being wiped out right now, so if they are struggling to afford having kids now, good luck in 12 to 24 months time.

About the only thing Chinese can invest in is property, and their property prices are about to fall off a cliff. It's the most expensive country to buy property with generational wealth going into buying homes. And for males in the population, if you don't own a home, then no meow meow for you!

The new 5 lines rule brought in by Xi Jinping has property developers defaulting on payments everywhere, and having to reassess property prices. The largest, Evergrande has already defaulted on bond payments, as has FanTASIA, another major developer. Evergrande alone is worth 300 billion. The question i guess is, how much skin western banks have in these organisations, because in China, it's not a case of everyone getting say 20c ina dollar. They can choose who they pay out. Evergrande, last month paid a pittance of payment coming due, and all went to Chinese and nothing to Western companies.

To put this crisis into perspective, housing is about 5% of the US economy, while in Chine it's 30% so it's a massive sector to the Chinese. It's estimted that around 70% of Chinses middle class wealth is tied up in property prices that will almost certainly be going over a cliff.

That's enough to take the glint out of the eye of any armerous Chinses fella!

When it comes to population growth globally. The doomsdayers go on about the ever expanding global population, but the truth is that within a generation or two, global populations will begin to plummet. There is barely 3 or 4 countries with a birth ratethat will sustain current population levels (2.1 children per woman).

The estimate is that we will top out at about 8 billion and then we'll be heading towards an empty earth situation.

As a share trader, i can tell you that some of my favoriter stocks to short are Chinese stocks like BABA, JD, AMD.

The IPO DIDI barely lasted 5 days on the NYSE before being delisted.

We are in interesting times right now, not just with the Chinese economy, but also with the US running up inflation whilst still trying to force through an "Infestructure bill" which is everything but infestructure. They call it "Human infestructure"! Anyone with a year 9 Junior Almanac in Economics will tell you that when you have an inflation issue, the lest thing you should be doing is sticking more money into your economy, but here the empty suit in Joe Biden is trying to stuff more in.

Inflation helps to lower Govt debt, but it's a massive tax on lower and middle class. If you have say $100,000 in the bank, and inflastion is running up at 7%, then there's $7000 of basically a stelalth tax you just paid. It's like having 5 bottles full of water on the desk in front of you. Printing money is like putting a 6th bottle down but with no extra water. If you evenly spread the water over the 6 bottles, that's probably the best reflaction of what happens to your currency as you add money to the system.

It's an odd situation. The left wing policies of the Biden Presidency are on the nose to voters. Biden's approval rating is at about 36% with the only other person with a lower rating being his Vice President, the cackling Camilla Harris, yet they are doubling down on these left wing policies, few of which were communicated to the population pre-election. If the voting is fair in the mid terms, they will be wiped out, but maybe that's why they are pushing for no voter id, saying that's racist because blacks are too stupid to get themselves an id. This despite Democrat states having a no vaccine passport then no entry to just about any facility. Blacks are the least vaccinated in the US running at about 15%. To enter a restaurant for example, requires the passport plus your id....... how ironic!

One country very happy with this leadership is of course China who has ramped up the agression since Biden's election. In fact, another country happy about it is Russia who now have over 100,000 troops on the Ukranian border which is a direct response to Biden's shift on the Norstar pipeline. Without it, Russia couldn't push too far into the Ukraine without the risk of their only pipeline to Europe being destroyed, but now that they have the Norstar option there is little stopping them pushing in.

I guess when Hunter Biden is receiving millions from Russian and Chinese interests, and your dad shares the same bank account, there has to be some sort of pay back, no matter what the cost!

The one thing that was looking like stopping Joe Biden from runnnig as a candidate was his history with corruption. But i guess the solution for that was for the media to just stop talking about it.
 
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HR

Tiger Superstar
Mar 20, 2013
2,441
1,517
"But i guess the solution for that was for the media to just stop talking about it."

This is our media's answer to getting the president that supports their ideology.
 
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Nico

You psychopathological reactionary!
Jul 1, 2004
2,274
2,059
Melbourne
Good luck with this!

The Chinese middle class are in the process of being wiped out right now, so if they are struggling to afford having kids now, good luck in 12 to 24 months time.

About the only thing Chinese can invest in is property, and their property prices are about to fall off a cliff. It's the most expensive country to buy property with generational wealth going into buying homes. And for males in the population, if you don't own a home, then no meow meow for you!

The new 5 lines rule brought in by Xi Jinping has property developers defaulting on payments everywhere, and having to reassess property prices. The largest, Evergrande has already defaulted on bond payments, as has FanTASIA, another major developer. Evergrande alone is worth 300 billion. The question i guess is, how much skin western banks have in these organisations, because in China, it's not a case of everyone getting say 20c ina dollar. They can choose who they pay out. Evergrande, last month paid a pittance of payment coming due, and all went to Chinese and nothing to Western companies.

To put this crisis into perspective, housing is about 5% of the US economy, while in Chine it's 30% so it's a massive sector to the Chinese. It's estimted that around 70% of Chinses middle class wealth is tied up in property prices that will almost certainly be going over a cliff.

That's enough to take the glint out of the eye of any armerous Chinses fella!

When it comes to population growth globally. The doomsdayers go on about the ever expanding global population, but the truth is that within a generation or two, global populations will begin to plummet. There is barely 3 or 4 countries with a birth ratethat will sustain current population levels (2.1 children per woman).

The estimate is that we will top out at about 8 billion and then we'll be heading towards an empty earth situation.

As a share trader, i can tell you that some of my favoriter stocks to short are Chinese stocks like BABA, JD, AMD.

The IPO DIDI barely lasted 5 days on the NYSE before being delisted.

We are in interesting times right now, not just with the Chinese economy, but also with the US running up inflation whilst still trying to force through an "Infestructure bill" which is everything but infestructure. They call it "Human infestructure"! Anyone with a year 9 Junior Almanac in Economics will tell you that when you have an inflation issue, the lest thing you should be doing is sticking more money into your economy, but here the empty suit in Joe Biden is trying to stuff more in.

Inflation helps to lower Govt debt, but it's a massive tax on lower and middle class. If you have say $100,000 in the bank, and inflastion is running up at 7%, then there's $7000 of basically a stelalth tax you just paid. It's like having 5 bottles full of water on the desk in front of you. Printing money is like putting a 6th bottle down but with no extra water. If you evenly spread the water over the 6 bottles, that's probably the best reflaction of what happens to your currency as you add money to the system.

It's an odd situation. The left wing policies of the Biden Presidency are on the nose to voters. Biden's approval rating is at about 36% with the only other person with a lower rating being his Vice President, the cackling Camilla Harris, yet they are doubling down on these left wing policies, few of which were communicated to the population pre-election. If the voting is fair in the mid terms, they will be wiped out, but maybe that's why they are pushing for no voter id, saying that's racist because blacks are too stupid to get themselves an id. This despite Democrat states having a no vaccine passport then no entry to just about any facility. Blacks are the least vaccinated in the US running at about 15%. To enter a restaurant for example, requires the passport plus your id....... how ironic!

One country very happy with this leadership is of course China who has ramped up the agression since Biden's election. In fact, another country happy about it is Russia who now have over 100,000 troops on the Ukranian border which is a direct response to Biden's shift on the Norstar pipeline. Without it, Russia couldn't push too far into the Ukraine without the risk of their only pipeline to Europe being destroyed, but now that they have the Norstar option there is little stopping them pushing in.

I guess when Hunter Biden is receiving millions from Russian and Chinese interests, and your dad shares the same bank account, there has to be some sort of pay back, no matter what the cost!

The one thing that was looking like stopping Joe Biden from runnnig as a candidate was his history with corruption. But i guess the solution for that was for the media to just stop talking about it.
Good summary about the property market in China Frickenel.

The sh!t is going to hit the fan very quickly. The CCP made a deal with it's people that if you let us do what we want without any opposition, we'll look after you. When the bubbles bursts, which there is no doubt it will, there's going to be blood in the streets and the CCP's biggest nightmare is the people turning on them.

To put things in perspective, when Japan's property and equity bubble burst in 1989 (it still hasn't recovered, the Nikkei hasn't returned to it's peak of 38,957 in Dec 89; it's now 27,122), housing prices were 18 times the average wage. Currently housing prices in China are 50 times, yes 50 times the average wage. This bubble is on a whole different scale, and as Frickenel correctly pointed out about 70% of the wealth of the Chinese middle class is tied up in property.

I honestly feel for the Chinese people...they are going to go through a world of pain.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,525
17,883
Melbourne
Not convinced this is a truly serious incident, could be a stuff up, but assuming it isn't, WTF was that Chinese ship up to? Sabre rattling, a bit of a provocation? Hard to tell at the moment and clearly we don't get told most of what is going on.

On the above, housing in Australia wouldn't be a pretty big multiple of the median wage, and I would think that 70% of Australia's middle class wealth would be tied up in property. I don't think this is a healthy situation in Aus either. We may not have a bubble but housing in Australia is clearly overpriced.

DS
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
44,116
18,926
Not convinced this is a truly serious incident, could be a stuff up, but assuming it isn't, WTF was that Chinese ship up to? Sabre rattling, a bit of a provocation? Hard to tell at the moment and clearly we don't get told most of what is going on.

On the above, housing in Australia wouldn't be a pretty big multiple of the median wage, and I would think that 70% of Australia's middle class wealth would be tied up in property. I don't think this is a healthy situation in Aus either. We may not have a bubble but housing in Australia is clearly overpriced.

DS

They were probably playing with the ships cat and as they were making it run up the wall the laser shone out a window.
 
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Nico

You psychopathological reactionary!
Jul 1, 2004
2,274
2,059
Melbourne
Not convinced this is a truly serious incident, could be a stuff up, but assuming it isn't, WTF was that Chinese ship up to? Sabre rattling, a bit of a provocation? Hard to tell at the moment and clearly we don't get told most of what is going on.

On the above, housing in Australia wouldn't be a pretty big multiple of the median wage, and I would think that 70% of Australia's middle class wealth would be tied up in property. I don't think this is a healthy situation in Aus either. We may not have a bubble but housing in Australia is clearly overpriced.

DS

John Blaxland, professor of international security and intelligence studies at the Australian National University, said China had never used a laser this close to Australia’s shores, saying it had now set a “new bar”.

“It’s in Australia’s exclusive economic zone, it’s an unreasonable act – it’s actually an act of aggression,” he said. “This is not a laser pointer from high school. This is something that will burn your eyes out and will damage your electro-optical equipment.”

Professor Blaxland said the action was a “threat to the aircraft, and it is the precursor to the firing of a kinetic weapon” such as a machine gun, cannon or missile.

“That’s what you do — you laser designate, then you engage. That’s the precursor signal of an attack, and it’s a microsecond away.

“So it is a particularly hostile act, it’s particularly hostile thing to do – quite adversarial and designed to intimidate just below the kinetic threshold.”



The Chinese have form on this....done it to the Yanks and us before. Highly unlikely it's a stuff up.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,525
17,883
Melbourne
I agree unlikely to be a stuff up (as I said above), but the question is, what are they up to? Maybe trying to provoke a reaction.

DS
 

Nico

You psychopathological reactionary!
Jul 1, 2004
2,274
2,059
Melbourne
I agree unlikely to be a stuff up (as I said above), but the question is, what are they up to? Maybe trying to provoke a reaction.

DS
Yep, I think they were looking for a reaction. Can only wonder what would happen if an Australian navy vessel off the coast of China did the same to a Chinese PLA aircraft.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,525
17,883
Melbourne
Yep, I think they were looking for a reaction. Can only wonder what would happen if an Australian navy vessel off the coast of China did the same to a Chinese PLA aircraft.

Well, when you're the regional gorilla you just get away with more, just ask the USA or Russia.

DS
 
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spook

Kick the f*ckin' goal
Jun 18, 2007
21,919
26,433
Melbourne
Some good reading:
Australia may be spoiling for the war that it does so much to predict, if so little to prepare for. But China is not going to war with Australia. Or not Australia alone. One could imagine it going out of its way to swat the Australian fly, but it is not going to cross three major waterways to attack Australia by itself. If Australia is to be engaged with China, it will be as an ally of the United States and other western powers.


The word “liberal” before “democracy” is meant to afford vulnerable minoirities a level of protection against “dictatorship of the majority”. Seen from a moral perspective, one is reminded of Machiavellian tendencies and Immanuel Kant’s advice not to use other human beings purely as a means to an end. Regardless of how one seeks to justify politicising and playing the Chinese card, the job of protecting Australians against foreign subversion is best left to the proper government agencies such as the police, ASIO and the courts to deal with. Politiking with it can have unfortunate outcomes. A good example of the harm caused by race-based politics is the May 13 1969 riots in Malaysia which resulted in hundreds of innocent people (up to more than a thousand in unofficial estimates) being murdered. An Australasian example is the Christchurch shooting on the 15th of march 2019 that resulted in 51 innocent Muslims being killed through religious hatred.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,705
1,730
Good summary about the property market in China Frickenel.

The sh!t is going to hit the fan very quickly. The CCP made a deal with it's people that if you let us do what we want without any opposition, we'll look after you. When the bubbles bursts, which there is no doubt it will, there's going to be blood in the streets and the CCP's biggest nightmare is the people turning on them.

To put things in perspective, when Japan's property and equity bubble burst in 1989 (it still hasn't recovered, the Nikkei hasn't returned to it's peak of 38,957 in Dec 89; it's now 27,122), housing prices were 18 times the average wage. Currently housing prices in China are 50 times, yes 50 times the average wage. This bubble is on a whole different scale, and as Frickenel correctly pointed out about 70% of the wealth of the Chinese middle class is tied up in property.

I honestly feel for the Chinese people...they are going to go through a world of pain.
There is a theory that China's COVID zero strategy - hence still resorting to draconian 'lockdowns', while the rest of the world moves on - is serving extra purposes. And you elude to the reasoning in the section I've marked in bold. All is not well internally on a number of fronts, despite what is portrayed to the outside world. The CCP is petrified of a massive civil uprising one day undermining their legitimacy and existence. Maintaining heavy handed order under the pretense that they can still eliminate COVID is likely a multi pronged strategy.
 

Nico

You psychopathological reactionary!
Jul 1, 2004
2,274
2,059
Melbourne
There is a theory that China's COVID zero strategy - hence still resorting to draconian 'lockdowns', while the rest of the world moves on - is serving extra purposes. And you elude to the reasoning in the section I've marked in bold. All is not well internally on a number of fronts, despite what is portrayed to the outside world. The CCP is petrified of a massive civil uprising one day undermining their legitimacy and existence. Maintaining heavy handed order under the pretense that they can still eliminate COVID is likely a multi pronged strategy.
Interesting theory PT. Yep, they have to keep reminding their people that they are the boss. If, as expected, the property market crashes, and the Chinese middle class lose the majority of their wealth...watch out!