Re: Will Newman end up in no-man's land?
Firstly, my apologies for being neglectful in starting this conversation and not getting back to it...been preparing for a mega-cyclone in this neck of the woods!!
Secondly I would like to clarify that my thinking on Newman doesn't stem from his game on Hird...I didn't see it and would not presume to judge him without having done so and without making allowances for the fact it was pre-season. Nor do I think that Newman doesn't have a lot of good assets...I'm not 'writing him off' or any of the other misinterpretations some have made...the question is more how we can use his assets and how he will fit into the future.
Dyer'ere, I really enjoyed your well thought out post and found the comparison to Rogers very interesting...the differences as much as the similarities. Your list of areas which Newman needs to improve in is right on the money IMO.
Brettstigers, I agree that Newman will get plenty of gametime and more years to prove himself...probably this season and the next. However, I think we need to keep in mind that Tivendale is a similar player in many ways...a pretty good kick when his confidence is up, not much use in a defensive role, seemingly no outstanding midfield role (Lamb changes my mind on this somewhat as I'll mention later). While perhaps nobody would have wanted Tivendale traded earlier in his career (2001 era), history has shown that if we could have traded him years back and got the good trade value we probably would have at that stage, then we should have done that...his flaws have certainly come home to roost in the time since.
Does Newman have the other strings to his bow which Tivendale doesn't? I think the jury is out on these matters...and there's more similarities between the two than differences at this stage.
GPB, I agree that Newman should be admired for the way he's worked hard on the track...I also agree he played well in the Irish matches. I think we have a similar mindset regarding trading...if we know we have players up our sleeve ready to replace Newman we should take advantage of the fact he's perhaps overrated in terms of what role he can offer in the future. I also think the price should fit the hype...Miller should be able to take care of that...I hope we'd do better than a 2nd round pick.
All we've had to offer as trade bait in recent years is Rayzor and untradeable players (and Ottens of course). We offered Hall for trade in 2003 and PAID to trade Holland when we really couldn't afford to lose two talls. If Hall had gone we would have had Zantuck and Vardy as our two key defenders that year...hardly what I call going forward through the trade table. A Newman type is far easier to replace...there's half a dozen late in the draft every year to take a punt on (just as he was), and we already have relatively similar types coming through.
I think he has trade written all over him...having said that, I'd love to see him develop into something special for us...I just suspect we might have already seen most of what he has to offer.
Tigermad, I like your approach to trading...we obviously see eye to eye on this issue.
DDT, thanks for understanding what I was getting at and recognising this thread is not about running Newman down at all...I do appreciate it. I like the point you make that despite his reputation, Newman really hasn't staked out a position which will fit him for the rest of his career and allow him to hold his place with others coming through. However, like yourself, I hope he's in for a great year too.
Lamb, you make a fantastic point re Johnson...you're dead right IMO, Newman would be better at Johnson's receiver role (which Johnson will get more of this season if Tuck and Coughlan hold up) and Johnson is better suited as a run with player. I was looking at the midfield through the context of Johnson being mostly an inside player (as he has been a lot with us), but I've always felt he wasn't suited to it (certainly wasn't used that way with the Crows) and was forced to play a role which hopefully a fit Coghlan and Tuck will fill for us this season...with Foley and Jackson coming through (hopefully soon!).
Great analysis. I couldn't find a spot for Newman, but a rethink of Johnson's role does possibly open the door for him. I'm not 100% confident he can be a
really good designated kicker, but it's well worth a solid trial and he won't be worse than Johnson. Casserley may well end up putting a lot of pressure on Newman down the track if we do use him in this role...dunno if there's room for two.
As for Tivendale and a tagging role...I considered raising that myself...but I'm well aware I'm already doing brilliantly at attracting a pack of jeering 'well wishers'...that's perfectly understandable...I did willingly take on the role of defending good old maligned Rayzor fiercely come hell or high water...I wasn't willing to add Tivendale to my 'baggage' though...:hihi
Tivendale has pace, he also has legs and arms like tree trunks...he has the strength to run and tackle all day if he could find the will. I'd like to see him play the first 4-6 rounds at Coburg and given instructions to focus on nothing but completely shutting down the best opposition midfielder. He could add another few years to his career if he could reinvent himself along these lines.
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