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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Christianity
- Thread starter Jools
- Start date
ullhair :hihi
Freezer, I agree. I think an easy review of the topic for rosy is that the bible says the world is approximately 6000-8000 years old (going on family lines traced from dates mentioned) and that creationists believe this to be true. Modern science in the most part recognises ages derived from methods such as carbon dating, thermoluminescence dating and stratigraphic association which date the earth as approximately 4.5 billion years old. This obviously creates any number on clashes between creationist history and scientific history and it's fair to say evolution theories and creationist theories are unlikely to support each other.
rosy23 said:Thanks Disco. Not sure what you mean by faith when dates come into it mld but Disco told me what I wanted to know. I'll search for the previous discussion about it that I obviously missed.
Well, opposition without evidence to peer-reviewed data must be faith-based. Faith in the bible's answer over what evidence points to.
I still haven't had the chance to watch Denton or the Richard Dawkins pieces yet but I have no doubt they adequately expose the true cult nature of some fanatical Christian churches, not unlike David Koresh, eh Jay?
Believe in yourself first and foremost!!! That's where you find the Truth of your being. You don't NEED to follow anyone, let alone some book of prophesies written by man (some of whom were no different to clairvoyants). History is but one man's opinion of events.
Believe in yourself first and foremost!!! That's where you find the Truth of your being. You don't NEED to follow anyone, let alone some book of prophesies written by man (some of whom were no different to clairvoyants). History is but one man's opinion of events.
Just finished reading some Wittgenstein,very enjoyable(Betrand Russell(he of flying teapot fame)-rated him highly).
Heres some thoughts from him on the subject of God and thinking.
How things are in the world is a matter of complete indifference for what is higher.God does not reveal himself in the world.
furthermore
We feel that even when when all possible scientific questions are answered,the problems of life remain completely untouched.Of course there are then no questions left,and this itself is the answer.
Which led him to the conclusion.
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
Heres some thoughts from him on the subject of God and thinking.
How things are in the world is a matter of complete indifference for what is higher.God does not reveal himself in the world.
furthermore
We feel that even when when all possible scientific questions are answered,the problems of life remain completely untouched.Of course there are then no questions left,and this itself is the answer.
Which led him to the conclusion.
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.
Pantera.
the statement seems on the surface,fairly superficial.But the more you think about it the more impressive the simple statement becomes.They later gave him a Cambrige Professor in Philosophy position on the strength of that statement even though he was formeally trained as an engineer.
What he's really saying is that even if you hypothetically believe in God,God is not 'of life' and unknowable.Therefore humans are not in the position(or more importantly should) even speculate what 'he' may or not be doing/thinking and what 'he' expects you to do in life.
the statement seems on the surface,fairly superficial.But the more you think about it the more impressive the simple statement becomes.They later gave him a Cambrige Professor in Philosophy position on the strength of that statement even though he was formeally trained as an engineer.
What he's really saying is that even if you hypothetically believe in God,God is not 'of life' and unknowable.Therefore humans are not in the position(or more importantly should) even speculate what 'he' may or not be doing/thinking and what 'he' expects you to do in life.
It ebbed and flowed.He went and fought in ww1 and i think that freaked him out for a short period.At one stage he considered becoming a pastor so he obviously rated it during that particulkar period.Disco08 said:
from wiki.
....At the same time, Wittgenstein was a profoundly changed man. He had embraced the Christianity that he had previously opposed, faced harrowing combat in World War I, and crystallized his intellectual and emotional upheavals with the exhausting composition of the Tractatus. It was a work which transfigured all of his past work on logic into a radically new framework that he believed offered a definitive solution to all the problems of philosophy. These changes in Wittgenstein's inner and outer life left him both haunted and yet invigorated to follow a new, ascetic life. One of the most dramatic expressions of this change was his decision in 1919 to give away his portion of the family fortune that he had inherited when his father had died. The money was divided between his sisters Helene and Hermine and his brother Paul, and Wittgenstein insisted that they promise never to give it back. He felt that giving money to the poor could only corrupt them further, whereas the rich would not be harmed by it.
Since Wittgenstein thought that the Tractatus had solved all the problems of philosophy, he left philosophy and returned to Austria to train as a primary school teacher....
No,I don't think you're missing something-it's a good point.But you have to remember he only toyed with the idea,he didn't actually go become a pastor.Disco08 said:
I can't really speak to his mind at the time but i imagine it went somnething along the lines
1.Go to war
2.Write thesis on philosophy from which i provided a quote 'Tracticus'-incidently he wrote it while on brief leave form the war-impressive in itself.He obviously did alot of hard thinking in those fox holes.
3.Go back to war.
4.Get freaked out by the horrors of it.(his best mate also got killed in the war-which made him suicidal)
5.THink maybe returning to the bible might help him out.
6.Think better of it.
7.Become a primary school teacher while he thinks of the next brilliant thing to write.
While I think of it Patsy.
This sort of thing of grappling/adhering with the teachings ofBible while also discovering things that contradict at least parts of it went on alot in the centuries leading up to the 20th century.
Genius's like Keikergaard,Wittgenstein,Darwin,Isaac Newton and countless other thinkers were all highly religious at stages in their life even though their very own discoveries were contradicting passages within the Bible.Everyone around them was highly religious too,it was considered the norm.
To them and others the point wasn't 'proving atheism' or the failings of the bible,but more looking for truth.
Most of them considered Jesus just one of many quality philosophers that teachings could also be learnt from.Hence,to learn from that particulalr philosopher,Jesus,you must still read the Bible.
This sort of thing of grappling/adhering with the teachings ofBible while also discovering things that contradict at least parts of it went on alot in the centuries leading up to the 20th century.
Genius's like Keikergaard,Wittgenstein,Darwin,Isaac Newton and countless other thinkers were all highly religious at stages in their life even though their very own discoveries were contradicting passages within the Bible.Everyone around them was highly religious too,it was considered the norm.
To them and others the point wasn't 'proving atheism' or the failings of the bible,but more looking for truth.
Most of them considered Jesus just one of many quality philosophers that teachings could also be learnt from.Hence,to learn from that particulalr philosopher,Jesus,you must still read the Bible.
Yes,its highly underated. I'd be more impressed if you could take it to 2000 decimal places ;D
By the way mate,you forgot to remind me about AlexisonFire.They played in Melbourne last night.I should get the big guy upstairs(assuming he'd speak to me) to rain a pestilence upon you.
By the way mate,you forgot to remind me about AlexisonFire.They played in Melbourne last night.I should get the big guy upstairs(assuming he'd speak to me) to rain a pestilence upon you.