Christianity

[Tiger Attack]

and how is it that these first humans are of a distinctly different racial profile than many other humans around the world?

 

[Disco08]

I think we covered that. God picked them all up off the tower and plonked them all around the earth, changed their appearance, their language and forgot to leave them a bible.

 

[Tiger Attack]

Clearly that was a tongue-in-cheek response to your earlier question. What were the bands that you saw if you don't mind me asking?

Sorry that the Christians ruined a Christian gig for you though.

They didn't ruin the gig for me, it's just at the weirdest times they leapt to their feet and did the hallelujah thing!

I really like gospel music and listen to cds and on the radion (PBS- Sunday morn) but seeing it live can be uplifting but also a bit in yr face.

I saw this great band and choir. They were from Dartmouth College. They were lifting the roof for sure!

 

[jayfox]

You're not getting my agrgument Jay. God knew beforehand that billions of souls were going to hell. Why would god even make mankind if he knew something like that in advance if he wasn't cruel? This is not about man's choice, this is about god's choice.

Simply because he needed to give them the opportunity to believe or reject him. If he hadn't created them and given them that choice, there would have been no chance of a relationship, would there? You are right in saying it was God's choice to create us but it is our choice of where we spend eternity.You are here now, don't blame God for the choices that you make whilst on Earth. Take responsibility for your own life Duckman.

and how is it that these first humans are of a distinctly different racial profile than many other humans around the world?

The Tower of Babel, Tiger Slack. It has been discussed on here, please type it into a search to find the explanation.

 

[Tiger Attack]

The Tower of Babel? Surely not? That's just one of those fanciful old testament stories that is more about the message than any element of truth.

 

[Disco08]

Simply because he needed to give them the opportunity to believe or reject him. If he hadn't created them and given them that choice, there would have been no chance of a relationship, would there? You are right in saying it was God's choice to create us but it is our choice of where we spend eternity.You are here now, don't blame God for the choices that you make whilst on Earth. Take responsibility for your own life Duckman.

My argument is, if he wasn't cruel, he wouldn't have created us at all knowing that so many of us are bound to spend eternity suffering. He didn't have to create us did he? It doesn't say in the bible why he created us does it?

I don't blame the christian god for anything Jay. I don't believe he exists. I try and do the right thing by the people around me because that's what feels right. That's taking responsibility for my life isn't it?

 

[jayfox]

I think we covered that. God picked them all up off the tower and plonked them all around the earth, changed their appearance, their language and forgot to leave them a bible.

Whilst your sarcasm is quite amusing, it is a little misleading. They were ignoring direct instructions given by God and that is why they were seperated racially and linguistically, so that they could never again all conspire to work against God for their own evil desires.
He didn't "forget to leave them a Bible". The Bible, as we know it. had clearly not been written yet for a start and the people were in direct contact from God anyway. Besides, sin seperates you from God and this is just another example of this.
Don't you think that if you had been directly instructed by God not to do something and then you went ahead and did it anyway, and you ended up in that predicament, that you may end up either worshipping God and asking for forgiveness or being angry with him and continuing to reject him?

 

[jayfox]

The Tower of Babel? Surely not? That's just one of those fanciful old testament stories that is more about the message than any element of truth.

Nope. Really happened. Amazing huh. By the way, if it didn't happen and it was "more about the message than any element of truth.", then what is the message behind it if you wouldn't mind explaining?

 

[Tiger Attack]

Jay what would happen at the gates of your heaven if two humans presented themselves for entry. One was a christian but he had done a lot of bad stuff in his time and whilst he was repentant, his track record on earth was pretty diabolical. The second man had led an amazing life, never done anything wrong, had acted charitably and spread love everywhere he went. However he was a non-believer. If a man ever deserved entry to heaven based on his deeds, it was the second. If a man did not deserve entry based on his deeds it was the first.

How would the bouncers at the door decide this one?

 

[Disco08]

Whilst your sarcasm is quite amusing, it is a little misleading. They were ignoring direct instructions given by God and that is why they were seperated racially and linguistically, so that they could never again all conspire to work against God for their own evil desires.
He didn't "forget to leave them a Bible". The Bible, as we know it. had clearly not been written yet for a start and the people were in direct contact from God anyway. Besides, sin seperates you from God and this is just another example of this.
Don't you think that if you had been directly instructed by God not to do something and then you went ahead and did it anyway, and you ended up in that predicament, that you may end up either worshipping God and asking for forgiveness or being angry with him and continuing to reject him?

I find it extremely difficult to believe that a. any group of people, if they were actually in contact with god and were aware of it would continually disobey him and b. that those same people have evolved from that state to some of the most religious people on earth.

Anyway, if they were disobeying him why didn't he just kill them like the others?

 

[jayfox]

My argument is, if he wasn't cruel, he wouldn't have created us at all knowing that so many of us are bound to spend eternity suffering. He didn't have to create us did he? It doesn't say in the bible why he created us does it?

I don't blame the christian god for anything Jay. I don't believe he exists. I try and do the right thing by the people around me because that's what feels right. That's taking responsibility for my life isn't it?

My arguement is he wanted to give us the chance to have a relationship with an incredible, perfect God who loves us more than anything in the world but he wanted it to be our choice of whether we participate in that relationship. My arguement is that if he was cruel then he would give us the punishment that we all deserve for our sins and would send us all to Hell. Or possibly, he would have destroyed us all and not even given us the chance to be saved and certainly wouldn;t have sent his Son to die for our sake. That would be truly cruel. If you suffer punishment in the afterlife, then it is your own doing.

I know that you don't believe in God and that is your choice. Whilst you are missing out on the comfort, joy and peace that only He can bring, it will not affect you, until you die.

 

[jayfox]

Jay what would happen at the gates of your heaven if two humans presented themselves for entry. One was a christian but he had done a lot of bad stuff in his time and whilst he was repentant, his track record on earth was pretty diabolical. The second man had led an amazing life, never done anything wrong, had acted charitably and spread love everywhere he went. However he was a non-believer. If a man ever deserved entry to heaven based on his deeds, it was the second. If a man did not deserve entry based on his deeds it was the first.

How would the bouncers at the door decide this one?

A single sin renders you unworthy to enter the gates of Heaven. Even though one man had been good in deeds, the Bible clearly tells us that deeds alone are not enough to get us into Heaven. If the other man was truly repentant, (and repentant means not only being sorry but turning away from and rejecting your evil ways), then He would enter Heaven. I don't see how people would expect to live in paradise with a God that they never even believed in?

I can give you a run down of how to work out if you are going to heaven if you would like?

 

[Disco08]

My arguement is that if he was cruel then he would give us the punishment that we all deserve for our sins and would send us all to Hell.

Well, you kind of get my point then seeing as he does send most of us to hell.

 

[jayfox]

I find it extremely difficult to believe that a. any group of people, if they were actually in contact with god and were aware of it would continually disobey him and b. that those same people have evolved from that state to some of the most religious people on earth.

Anyway, if they were disobeying him why didn't he just kill them like the others?

Believe it, it happened. As for why God judged them in that way, I'm not sure. I'll ask him one day. I'll actually probably ask him why he bothered with us at all and why he didn't just destroy us all and forget about it, like we deserve. But, then I'm sure He will respond by saying that He loved us all too much for that to happen.

 

[jayfox]

My arguement is that if he was cruel then he would give us the punishment that we all deserve for our sins and would send us all to Hell.

Well, you kind of get my point then seeing as he does send most of us to hell.

Not at all, as he gives all of us a chance to be saved. No-one has to go to Hell. You just choose to.

 

[Tiger Attack]

Innocent children who die at a very young age haven't made this choice; nor have people who haven't ad the opportunity to know god.

 

[Stripes]

Fair enough but my advice would be not to turn your back on God but to find another church to attend. Just because you came across one crazy pastor shouldn't deter you from trying to find a respectable church to worship God in, if you faith was real.

I'm not turning my back on God, but I will certainly never set foot in another fanatical Christian church. Why would I need to find a church anyway when I can connect directly with Source?

Let me ask you this question about your friends Stripes. You say that they "follow the teachings of Christ" but do they 'exclusively' follow his teachings and consider him to be the son of God who came to Earth to sacrifice himself on the cross to save us from our sins, and then defeated death by rising again on the third day? And do they believe that the only way to the father is through faith in Him? If not, then they are not Christians, you can be sure of that. If they claim to believe all of these things and yet also claim to be Clairvoyants then you can be sure that they are deceiving people, probably even themselves, as well.

It depends on what you mean by "exclusively" Jay. The pastor I mentioned would continually preach about the evils of nightclubs, alcohol and drugs and that all "good Christians" must resist such temptations as they are the work of the devil. LOL!! My Christian friends also think this is a load of absolute bollocks and we often go clubbing, but they remain Christians nonetheless. They have exceptional intuitive abilities akin to clairvoyants but they don't walk around claiming they are clairvoyant or trying to make money out of reading people's palms, or prophecising about the future. They are humbled by their unique gifts (we all have them btw!) but still follow Christ. The best part is that they never bible bash me (if they did they wouldn't be my friends).

 

[Tubytiger]

My arguement is that if he was cruel then he would give us the punishment that we all deserve for our sins and would send us all to Hell.

Well, you kind of get my point then seeing as he does send most of us to hell.

Not at all, as he gives all of us a chance to be saved. No-one has to go to Hell. You just choose to.

G'day foxy. Look ive barely ventured into this topic but id like to you ask you a question just on your last post. How do we be saved mate - does it take us to go to church every week and make those donations to the church and sing along with the rest of the crowd. Or can those who choose to be comfortable in sitting at home still believe in him.

I'm a sceptic to say the least but my partner is a believer from his childhood, which i support if that is what he chooses but you may not see my point of view, considering my situation seeing the church seems to be pretty black and white about most topics mate.

 

[Disco08]

Let me ask you one direct question Jay. Did god know how many people were going to go to hell before he created mankind?

 

[jayfox]

Innocent children who die at a very young age haven't made this choice; nor have people who haven't ad the opportunity to know god.

It's been covered. Innocent children go to heaven, those without opportunity are judged by their actions. Do a search on it, if you want to know more.