Cleve Hughes - Premiership Player | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Cleve Hughes - Premiership Player

OK, let summarise 18 pages of crap discussion.

Not even putting the 'Internet Humiliation' into consideration, Hughes was asked at the start of last year to visit the Wizard for a heart. He has failed to do so, he has been lazy, only thinking about himself and how he looks.

The reason why he was 'dropped' to the reserves is because he is *smile*.
 
Let me ask a simple question to Freezer, Frickenel and any one else:

As Shulz has played 49 games and Hughes even less, if Richo does his knee early next season (ala 1995), how will our forward line operate especially if Schulz gets traded?
 
TigerForce said:
Let me ask a simple question to Freezer, Frickenel and any one else:

As Shulz has played 49 games and Hughes even less, if Richo does his knee early next season (ala 1995), how will our forward line operate especially if Schulz gets traded?
Click to expand...

With great difficulty. But Richo doing his knee doesn't all of a sudden mean Hughes and Schulz have the ability to get a kick. That's the whole point - they should be tearing up the VFL but they can't even do that. And that's not down to Richo.
 
TigerForce said:
Let me ask a simple question to Freezer, Frickenel and any one else:

As Shulz has played 49 games and Hughes even less, if Richo does his knee early next season (ala 1995), how will our forward line operate especially if Schulz gets traded?
Click to expand...

Matty Rogers will step up!
 
Freezer said:
TigerForce said:
Let me ask a simple question to Freezer, Frickenel and any one else:

As Shulz has played 49 games and Hughes even less, if Richo does his knee early next season (ala 1995), how will our forward line operate especially if Schulz gets traded?
Click to expand...

With great difficulty. But Richo doing his knee doesn't all of a sudden mean Hughes and Schulz have the ability to get a kick. That's the whole point - they should be tearing up the VFL but they can't even do that. And that's not down to Richo.
Click to expand...
Sometimes there are players who show laziness in VFL games, but as soon as they are promoted to an AFL game (with better and motivated atmosphere) they give 100%. Like my post last night about Jackson, who would've thought he would step up a notch or two late this season at AFL level.
 
TigerForce said:
Sometimes there are players who show laziness in VFL games, but as soon as they are promoted to an AFL game (with better and motivated atmosphere) they give 100%.
Click to expand...

I hate that argument.
I have seen it used for Meyer as well.
These young guys have got to show hunger at every level. They are owed absolutely nothing.
What happened to putting your head down and your bum up?!

Sarge, Meyer and Hughes need to extract the digit. Then they might actually achieve something!



PS: The reason Jackson is improving is because he's a student. He works hard at his game.
 
TigerForce said:
Let me ask a simple question to Freezer, Frickenel and any one else:

As Shulz has played 49 games and Hughes even less, if Richo does his knee early next season (ala 1995), how will our forward line operate especially if Schulz gets traded?
Click to expand...

TF i am not asking for either to be traded. I think they could work a bit harder on the field, and that's what i'd like to see. If they were throwing themselves into marking competitions and failing, thats better than going home as a supporter with the impression they got about 25 mins game time, only to pick up the paper and find they were on for like 80 minutes and didn't even go in the vicinity of the ball!

Maybe they need to read the play better, or maybe it's a confidence thing where they aren't going for anything that isn't lace out because they don't have the belief to do so. They need to make it happen rather than stand back and wait for it to happen.
 
frickenel said:
TigerForce said:
Let me ask a simple question to Freezer, Frickenel and any one else:

As Shulz has played 49 games and Hughes even less, if Richo does his knee early next season (ala 1995), how will our forward line operate especially if Schulz gets traded?
Click to expand...

TF i am not asking for either to be traded. I think they could work a bit harder on the field, and that's what i'd like to see. If they were throwing themselves into marking competitions and failing, thats better than going home as a supporter with the impression they got about 25 mins game time, only to pick up the paper and find they were on for like 80 minutes and didn't even go in the vicinity of the ball!

Maybe they need to read the play better, or maybe it's a confidence thing where they aren't going for anything that isn't lace out because they don't have the belief to do so. They need to make it happen rather than stand back and wait for it to happen.
Click to expand...

Well that's my whole argument. We don't know how Schulz and Richo get along personally but I always suspect a bit of jealousy in that Schulz can't be given the FF for a few weeks in a row with Richo at HFF to finally prove whether he is good enough or not. If Richo was a bit quieter as a FF (ala Alister Lynch) he and whoever else could've combined better, but, I just see that Richo demands TOO MUCH OF THE BALL. My blame goes to Wallace especially when he publicly laid a criticism on Schulz as he took over as coach, and maybe Schulz has cold shoulder in non-performing well on purpose.....who knows.

Richo will be 33 next year and let's see how everything turns out with whatever game plan we have next year.
 
Tigers of Old said:
TigerForce said:
Sometimes there are players who show laziness in VFL games, but as soon as they are promoted to an AFL game (with better and motivated atmosphere) they give 100%.
Click to expand...

I hate that argument.
I have seen it used for Meyer as well.
These young guys have got to show hunger at every level. They are owed absolutely nothing.
What happened to putting your head down and your bum up?!

Sarge, Meyer and Hughes need to extract the digit. Then they might actually achieve something!



PS: The reason Jackson is improving is because he's a student. He works hard at his game.
Click to expand...

Agree Toohey's, absurd argument. I could get a game under that argument, you never know, I could rise to the superior level of AFL footy.
 
TigerForce said:
Well that's my whole argument. We don't know how Schulz and Richo get along personally but I always suspect a bit of jealousy in that Schulz can't be given the FF for a few weeks in a row with Richo at HFF to finally prove whether he is good enough or not. If Richo was a bit quieter as a FF (ala Alister Lynch) he and whoever else could've combined better, but, I just see that Richo demands TOO MUCH OF THE BALL. My blame goes to Wallace especially when he publicly laid a criticism on Schulz as he took over as coach, and maybe Schulz has cold shoulder in non-performing well on purpose.....who knows.

Richo will be 33 next year and let's see how everything turns out with whatever game plan we have next year.
Click to expand...

TF your logic is obsured, because every forward should demand the ball.

Why don't Schulz and Hughes DEMAND the ball????

Blame either the young forwards for not working hard enough to get it, or the midfield for not kicking it to them when the young forwards do work hard.

But don't blame Richo for doing EXACTLY WHAT HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO!

I'd doubt Schulz is 'jealous' of Richo, some posters talk here as if our list is full of purtenance. If they are that sooky, then stuff it - trade them! However i'd imagine that is just the neive assumption of some on here!
 
Interesting to compare the inconsistent policies given towards Richo, Kellaway & Gaspar.

Regardless of on-field performance, Kellaway & Gaspar were told their services were no longer required, and that the younger Thursfield & McGuane were to be developed in their place.

Thursfield has always been highly regarded, but what was the opinion of McGuane as a defender at the end of 2006?
Compare McGuane performances in 2007, when given greater responsibility, to that of his previous year.

Yet there seems to be a different policy given towards the key forwards.

Another example is that of Pattison's performances in 2007 when necessity gave rise to opportunity. How does his 2007 compare with 2006?


As an aside, what views do we hold about Buckley of Collingwood, now that he has retired?
A great footballer, who never achieved the rewards of premiership success.
Or, a good footballer in an ordinary phase of his club's history.

I wonder if either, if not both of these, might be used regarding Richo in the future.
Richo, a player whose individual performances over 15 years bore an indirect relationship to his team's performances.

But there always has been that conflict, individual v team performance.

Over the next year or two, one would expect Richo to follow the same pattern as Knights, Rogers, Campbell & Gaspar and be pushed out in decline rather than going out on top.
 
Unfortunately it wasn't regardless of on-field performance. If Gaspar had been performing at the level Richo did this year, he wouldn't have been asked to play in the magoos. His output level no longer justified him being in the team.

Buckley's hamstrings tore every time he ran. If his body held up the way Richo's has, he wouldn't be hanging up the boots. "A great footballer, who never achieved the rewards of premiership success."

There is a strong correlation between the Pattison/Richo situations. Pattison was our best choice as ruckman this year and he stepped up to the plate admirably. When we have a better ruckman, he will play ahead of Patto in that position.

Richo has been our best option up forward for a number of years. When we have a better option/options, they will play ahead of Richo. Hughes and Schulz aren't better options.
 
Yes, but Patto improved when given higher responsibility.

From this position, if Pattison development was to be curtailed by being dropped back to Coburg for the sake of the inclusion of a 30yo makes little sense.

An improving 22yo should be given every opportunity to reach his very best.

We know what our current position is at Richmond.
We finished bottom.
The experienced players at Richmond were supposed to lead us into the finals.
By round 6, all the objectives at Richmond had to be altered.
The experienced players at Richmond had let us down again.

The only two positives for 2007 were:
1. The Coburg finals.
2. The performances of younger players.

Our younger players are our future.
Their earliest progression can only be team lifting.

Richo is merely a part of our history still existing in our present but not a part of our future.
I wonder what specialist coaching role Richo will take on when he comes to hand down his knowledge to our juniors when he retires?
Will the Tiger admin be looking at postioning Richo post-retirement, into a role, the same way that Collingwood are looking to do with Buckley?
 
Phantom said:
An improving 22yo should be given every opportunity to reach his very best.
Click to expand...

And if he/they can't reach their very best at the lower levels, what then...? Give them a game just for the hell of it...?

I understand where you're coming from, I just don't think we have the players required to make Richo even think about retiring.

This thread is going round in circles and I'm bored with it. :wave
 
Phantom said:
Yes, but Patto improved when given higher responsibility.

From this position, if Pattison development was to be curtailed by being dropped back to Coburg for the sake of the inclusion of a 30yo makes little sense.

An improving 22yo should be given every opportunity to reach his very best.

We know what our current position is at Richmond.
We finished bottom.
The experienced players at Richmond were supposed to lead us into the finals.
By round 6, all the objectives at Richmond had to be altered.
The experienced players at Richmond had let us down again.

The only two positives for 2007 were:
1. The Coburg finals.
2. The performances of younger players.

Our younger players are our future.
Their earliest progression can only be team lifting.

Richo is merely a part of our history still existing in our present but not a part of our future.
I wonder what specialist coaching role Richo will take on when he comes to hand down his knowledge to our juniors when he retires?
Will the Tiger admin be looking at postioning Richo post-retirement, into a role, the same way that Collingwood are looking to do with Buckley?
Click to expand...

Opportunity and access to opportunity is everything. I am not comparing Adam Goodes to Patto, but does anyone remember when he was FORCED into the ruck for the whole season as a 19 yr old?

He rose to the challenge - and IMO - this season made him the player that he is today.
 
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