Compare Richmond of 2009 with Hawthorn of 2004 - Instead of Richmond of 2004

[Ian4]

In 2004, players like Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Bateman, Williams, Campbell, Osborne, Ladson, etc were on their list and had been around a few years. Plus Guerra, Croad, Gilham, Dew, etc playing elsewhere.

In 2009, players like Thursfield, Deledio, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Polo, Mcguane, Rance, Morton, Tuck, Jackson, Connors, Moore, Foley Collins, etc, have been around for between 2-6 years.

From 2004 onwards, Hawthorn dumped old farts such as Hay, Rawlings, Holland and Thompson, and got draft picks for some of them.

In 2009, we must dump Johnson, Brown, Richo, Simmonds and Bowden, and see if we can get draft picks for mid-range players (ie. Tambling, White)

In 2004, Hawthorn focused on structure by taking talls in Roughead and Franklin, a Ruckman in Taylor, a defender in Murphy and a midfielder in Lewis.

In 2009, we must have 8-9 picks plus a full compliment of rookies with a focus on improving our structure.

In 2004 Hawthorn appointed a young coach through a thorough and exhaustive process… and they stuck with their process without succumbing to media and other external pressures.

In 2009 we must appoint a young coach through a thorough and exhaustive process… and we must stick to the process without succumbing to media and other external pressures.

 

[Backbone]

Time will tell whether the comparison between the current stock of richmond players and Hawthorns 2004 list is comparable, however I agree with you on the way forward, with the exception that we need a young coach. We definitely need a coach who can develop players, however I'm not convinced that he needs to be young.

 

[pahoffm]

I like the sentiment, Ian.

Not a bad comparison.

Hawthorn in 2004 didn't have a goal to goal line and junior rucks.

S'pose we're a bit better off.
We have some good key defensive juniors on our list already.

The next draft or two will either make us or break us.

 

[WesternTiger]

In 2004, players like Hodge, Mitchell, Brown, Bateman, Williams, Campbell, Osborne, Ladson, etc were on their list and had been around a few years. Plus Guerra, Croad, Gilham, Dew, etc playing elsewhere.

In 2009, players like Thursfield, Deledio, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Polo, Mcguane, Rance, Morton, Tuck, Jackson, Connors, Moore, Foley Collins, etc, have been around for between 2-6 years.

From 2004 onwards, Hawthorn dumped old farts such as Hay, Rawlings, Holland and Thompson, and got draft picks for some of them.

In 2009, we must dump Johnson, Brown, Richo, Simmonds and Bowden, and see if we can get draft picks for mid-range players (ie. Tambling, White)

In 2004, Hawthorn focused on structure by taking talls in Roughead and Franklin, a Ruckman in Taylor, a defender in Murphy and a midfielder in Lewis.

In 2009, we must have 8-9 picks plus a full compliment of rookies with a focus on improving our structure.

In 2004 Hawthorn appointed a young coach through a thorough and exhaustive process… and they stuck with their process without succumbing to media and other external pressures.

In 2009 we must appoint a young coach through a thorough and exhaustive process… and we must stick to the process without succumbing to media and other external pressures.

Great post Ian and I was thinking the same thing today re. the comparison.

 

[Ruthless Tigers ?]

I think we are ahead of where the Hawks were iin 2004. Hawthorn were unable to push too many sides and we have shown throughjout the season that we are capable of mixing it with sides but lack the hardness to finish the game off. We have shown some excellent passages and I think its more the gameplan and our aged passengers that has seen us stumble. With some hard call, perhaps some realistic calls, we can free some space for some players who can make decent footballers. The Miller/Wallace plan of team building was hugely flawed and did not cover for the departure of the deadwood. We dont have players coming through to push the likes of Brown and Bowden, the two greatest passengers along with Symonds and Johnston from the side.

A realistic gameplan based around running the ball quickly sees our players matching it with teams but then we always resort to the chip sideways and backwards and stop running possession brand of football that basketball teams do. We need a coach who has the players believing in themselves and one who backs the players. Surely this chip stop start rubbish must have come from the box?

 

[Streak]

A realistic gameplan based around running the ball quickly sees our players matching it with teams but then we always resort to the chip sideways and backwards and stop running possession brand of football that basketball teams do. We need a coach who has the players believing in themselves and one who backs the players. Surely this chip stop start rubbish must have come from the box?

This is what Rawlings has to deliver to be seen as having a successful stint. I don't care if it wins games for the rest of this season or not, but a more basic direct and efficient style of play is a must. I think Jade will deliver it to, and those players that can't play to it will be sent packing.

There is one massive difference between the situation the Hawks were in in 2004 and the one we are in now. They were able to get some very good extra draft picks for what they gave up. History shows that the Hawks had arguably one of the best drafts ever in 2004. Even if the kids in this years draft class are just as good, I doubt we have the ability to capitalise like the Hawks did in 2004.

 

[Phar Ace]

Great Post Ian4

I remember back in early 2005, some learned people on PRE, with good reason, were saying Hawthorn were more advanced at attending to their list as they had a decent midfield already in Mitchell, Hodge, Crawford and another that escapes me right now. It was felt we were virtually starting from scratch. This apparently meant that the Hawks rise up the ladder would precede ours, but that it would not last.

There were also the doubters on Franklin and Roughead.

So are we really five years behind the Hawks Ian4? 2014 for a premiership. Not sure some on here want to wait that long

 

[Tiger_Shark]

good thread. looking at the subject of this thread i guess it's a reason for optimism rather than dispair. i agree and hope we can move forward with optimism.

however, i want to stop comparing us with anyone. our review needs to identify the way forward for our list and football department. we need to move forward with confidence and with a strategy of our own that we must stick to without worrying about outside influence.

we are in our own predicament here. we can't go back and change the past. the football environment has changed in 5 yrs (GC coming into the comp, etc) so we must be decisive and smart with our stategy for the next few years.

we definitely need to get this right.