Comparing Players at the Same Age

[the claw]

So Leysy and Scoop, you both watched heaps of Adelaide/Port games and both have memories good enough to remember what fairly obscure guys did with one or two touches a game 7 or 10 years ago? Doing things in traffic and punching through a crowd generally means the player one a clearance or a contested get, yet early in their careers all these guys were winning less of these stats than Tambling comparatively.

Honestly, Tambling does some very good things if you look. Yes he has some shockers too and is inconsistent, but most agree he has (or had) a lot of talent.

i remember p burgoyne very well as a kid hated the prick but a damn good player.

 

[the claw]

gazza is not a good example to use we have been thru this on another thread where people were saying ablett was poor or just ordinary in his early yrs and nothing could be farther from the truth.
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He just didn't have the tank/fitness to perform at the levels for 4 qtrs as he does now.He was brillant but only for patches

hmm he played 12 games in his first yr which was an achievement. showed the flashes but i disagree he was consistent.
his second yr 2003 he played both mid and forward and yes e was still developing his motor. but geez he lead geelong that yr in tackles, inside 50s, and was second in hard ball gets, as well as kicking 26 goals what more could anyside ask of a second yr player.
his third yr he lead them in hard ball gets and tackles again kicked 35 goals and was regularly named in their best players. all this having missed the first 4 thru injury.
2004 wasanother consistent yr despite heavy tags now. he came third in their band f and finished top 5 in all of their categories that count for the roles he plays that being midfielder small forward. managed another 29 goals. we can go on but apart from his first yr where he was basically just given a taste and hidden from the hype surrounding his name hes been damn consistant either as a forward or increasinglyas his motor has grown each yr as a mid.

 

[Leysy Days]

So Leysy and Scoop, you both watched heaps of Adelaide/Port games and both have memories good enough to remember what fairly obscure guys did with one or two touches a game 7 or 10 years ago? Doing things in traffic and punching through a crowd generally means the player one a clearance or a contested get, yet early in their careers all these guys were winning less of these stats than Tambling comparatively.

Honestly, Tambling does some very good things if you look. Yes he has some shockers too and is inconsistent, but most agree he has (or had) a lot of talent.

Leysy's memory of the Burgoyne's early of is of them being pretty soft & timid (especially Shaun), but when they had the ball they always had the one thing that makes good sportsmen stand out - "time". It can't be taught & Tambling doesn't have that innate attribute that they had in that regard.

Also wouldn't say Peter obscure, he was getting over 400 touches as a 21 y.o.

Rhys Palmer got heaps of possessions last year and even if he could kick the ball he is nowhere in the class of Rioli and Cotchin because of the way they got their possessions and how they could make space in pressure situations. McLeod was doing stuff like Cotchin and Rioli did when he was a kid (Remember those goals in the wet against Hawthorn in his 2nd game). Tambling does not have that ability at the moment in and around packs but can spoil, keep his feet and run hard off the back packs. Tambling gets his possessions at the moment playing like a HBF but doing it in the middle of ground. If they just put him back permanently he would be fine, but unfortunately they traded pick 18 for a guy who is there and they can't move him. McMahon's trade not only cost us a decent development kid I think it is seriously hurting Tambling's career because McMahon has his best spot.

Leysy fully agree's with all that Juffa.

 

[Disco08]

Leysy's memory of the Burgoyne's early of is of them being pretty soft & timid (especially Shaun), but when they had the ball they always had the one thing that makes good sportsmen stand out - "time". It can't be taught & Tambling doesn't have that innate attribute that they had in that regard.

We've been here before. Tambling looked to have plenty of it as a junior. His form was well exposed and even though it wasn't always at the highest level he didn't get named as the best div. 2 player in both his u16 and u18 carnivals for nothing. You speak of good good sportsmen standing out, well as a junior Tambling certainly did that. Even earlier in his career he showed it clearly - games, or more accurately patches of games, against Carlton, Collingwood and West Coast all quickly spring to mind. For whatever reason (Juffa probably has it nailed down pretty well) he isn't showing it much at all now but I think it's untrue to say he definitely doesn't have it.

You've obviously got a much better memory than me too. Like I said I've always watched a lot of footy and I'm sure I'd have watched a few games that these guys played prior to hitting their straps, but buggered if I can remember anything they did let alone enough to form an opinion such as you've done. Too much beer etc. I guess.

 

[Scoop]

So Leysy and Scoop, you both watched heaps of Adelaide/Port games and both have memories good enough to remember what fairly obscure guys did with one or two touches a game 7 or 10 years ago? Doing things in traffic and punching through a crowd generally means the player one a clearance or a contested get, yet early in their careers all these guys were winning less of these stats than Tambling comparatively.

Honestly, Tambling does some very good things if you look. Yes he has some shockers too and is inconsistent, but most agree he has (or had) a lot of talent.

I think Disco, that I enjoy that exact thing that you talk about. Watching kids and earmarking them early as guys who I think can be good footballers. Try and pick them early tell your mates, put it on PRE and then watch it unfold. The Burgoyne brothers & McLeod are examples. I have got some terribly wrong. I thought Donald Dickie would be a 10 year footballer & I thought James Hird was soft early on. Everyone has them. The ones you got wrong and your mates never let you live down are the best. PRE does a bit of that.

But right now I will give you two guys who I think already have the time factor that Tambling doesn't have, Stephen Hill & Hamish Hartlett. They both have the ability in traffic to find space and time as well as pick the right choice that will help their team.

Rhys Palmer got heaps of possessions last year and even if he could kick the ball he is nowhere in the class of Rioli and Cotchin because of the way they got their possessions and how they could make space in pressure situations. McLeod was doing stuff like Cotchin and Rioli did when he was a kid (Remember those goals in the wet against Hawthorn in his 2nd game). Tambling does not have that ability at the moment in and around packs but can spoil, keep his feet and run hard off the back packs. Tambling gets his possessions at the moment playing like a HBF but doing it in the middle of ground. If they just put him back permanently he would be fine, but unfortunately they traded pick 18 for a guy who is there and they can't move him. McMahon's trade not only cost us a decent development kid I think it is seriously hurting Tambling's career because McMahon has his best spot.

Couldn't agree more. The McMahon trade has hurt us in so many ways.

1) Decent development kid via DP 19
2) Salary Cap Space
3) Taking away chances for younger players to learn the game off the back flank.

The RFC has a lot to answer for in the case of Richard Tambling but I think they were working with a player who didn't have the ability to find time and space in traffic.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I think an important issue with all these stats is the increasing amount of possessions per game - especially in the back half. Very difficult to compare stats of players from even 5 years ago with today.

Yeah, stats are generally cheaper now. Even making allowances for this, BrisTiger's post does bring some perspective - just as expectations were unreasonably inflated during the pre-season, the list is not the shambles that 2009 has so far led many to believe. The difference between us and good sides is that we don't have a sizable group of quality players with experience who are still in their prime.

 

[the claw]

Yeah, stats are generally cheaper now. Even making allowances for this, BrisTiger's post does bring some perspective - just as expectations were unreasonably inflated during the pre-season, the list is not the shambles that 2009 has so far led many to believe. The difference between us and good sides is that we don't have a sizable group of quality players with experience who are still in their prime.

sheesh we are in trouble then. in case you have not noticed the majority of our players are in the 22 thru 27 age bracket.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

sheesh we are in trouble then. in case you have not noticed the majority of our players are in the 22 thru 27 age bracket.

It's misleading to express things that way. We have more 22-23yo's than 24-27yo's. A number of them need to come good in the next couple of seasons or yes, we are in trouble.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

I ask this as a genuine question, can anyone remember the last time a key position player got delisted when he was still playing decent footy?

In my memory KPP seem to get dragged out until they can barely walk anymore, every team does it, particularly if a player's output is still at the Richo level. Waxing half backs and clever forward pockets are far more easy to dispense though

 

[Disco08]

I think Disco, that I enjoy that exact thing that you talk about. Watching kids and earmarking them early as guys who I think can be good footballers. Try and pick them early tell your mates, put it on PRE and then watch it unfold. The Burgoyne brothers & McLeod are examples. I have got some terribly wrong. I thought Donald Dickie would be a 10 year footballer & I thought James Hird was soft early on. Everyone has them. The ones you got wrong and your mates never let you live down are the best. PRE does a bit of that.

But right now I will give you two guys who I think already have the time factor that Tambling doesn't have, Stephen Hill & Hamish Hartlett. They both have the ability in traffic to find space and time as well as pick the right choice that will help their team.

Fair enough. I love doing exactly the same thing (at least since I started playing dreamteam years ago) so it really must be my memory. No surprise there really.

Your Stephen Hill example is interesting. If you watched him in a couple of his earlier games you'd probably right him off. He looked lost, got caught with it, turned it over and generally seemed way out of his depth. Yesterday he was a completely different player and like you said, looked as though he had all the time in the world on occasion.

If you've got a copy of any of the games I mentioned to Leysy, go back and watch the quarters where Tambling really turns it on and tell me he doesn't exhibit the exact same thing.

 

[Scoop]

Fair enough. I love doing exactly the same thing (at least since I started playing dreamteam years ago) so it really must be my memory. No surprise there really.

Your Stephen Hill example is interesting. If you watched him in a couple of his earlier games you'd probably right him off. He looked lost, got caught with it, turned it over and generally seemed way out of his depth. Yesterday he was a completely different player and like you said, looked as though he had all the time in the world on occasion.

If you've got a copy of any of the games I mentioned to Leysy, go back and watch the quarters where Tambling really turns it on and tell me he doesn't exhibit the exact same thing.

Just on Hill, he showed this talent in his fifth game. Pretty early to show such signs.

But good effort from Tambling today. Best effort thus far. Two solid weeks in a row. Needs to put another couple of solid weeks together. A month of good footy.

Not everyone clicks at the same rate. We at Richmond are determined to show that!