Even chance that the company directors involved are all living here having bought themselves an Australian residency.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Coronavirus
- Thread starter Tigers of Old
- Start date
Even chance that the company directors involved are all living here having bought themselves an Australian residency.
I was thinking the same thing...lol...how many times does the same thing have to be explained?
Let's wait and see then shall we. Let's use the US as an example. They're a country that thanks to Trump were late with their isolation of Coronavirus and are now feeling it. Yesterday Trump has now conceded that there may be up to 240,000 deaths by the time this is over. Here is a chart from CDC showing the deaths from influenza in the US each year since 2010-2011.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Highest in that period is an estimate of 61,000 deaths in 2017-2018 (this was known to be a very bad flu year). Other years most averaged less than 40,000 deaths. I think history will show, despite containment efforts, the damage caused by COVID-19 will be far worse than the flu could ever be. I think it is far more catchy than the flu and it has a higher capacity to kill and that's ignoring the evidence coming out that severe cases who recover have extensive lung damage as a result which could affect them for years or even the rest of their lives.
It is not a coincidence that the world is so concerned about this virus. There's not a world wide conspiracy for governments to take control of its people, it's not a warfare tactic, it's a virus that has mutated, for whatever reason to be determined, to affect humans that has never been seen before. Unlike strains of influenza there is no on-going built-up immunity, everyone can catch it and the consequences for many who do are dire.
There's a lot to still a lot to learn about this virus. In the meantime the government is in new territory and I think wisely making decisions based on the spread and containment of the virus. In hindsight we will learn how to handle it better god forbid if necessary in the future. I am happy to be Australian.
Deputy Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly reminding us this afternoon that we've never been successful in developing a vaccine for a coronavirus.
Whether we can is anyone's guess. This is the 'experimental' stage. Not exactly filling with confidence that we will be over this any time soon.
Whether we can is anyone's guess. This is the 'experimental' stage. Not exactly filling with confidence that we will be over this any time soon.
Even chance that the company directors involved are all living here having bought themselves an Australian residency.
Exactly Tigerman.
Send them back and their $$$$$$.
Well written Tigerlove.
I’m not expect on this but my life on this planet and my love and fascination of all things history, like yourself, I’ve mentioned to anyone that is prepared to listen, that this virus is starting to mutate now!
Killing babies & killing fit 13 year olds.
There is no immunity.
No vaccine that will develop in time to stop the deaths that will mount.
The Spanish flu that killed many many millions towards the end of the war ,, but the time they did lockdowns, whatever you want to call it was devastating.
What Australia have done may have saved 10’s thousands of lives and worldwide may save millions.
I’m not over dramatising this.
This virus will wreak havoc. Have countries reacted quickly enough, swiftly enough or in some many cases late to save their countries unnecessary deaths.?
I with all my heart & soul want to proven wrong.
This virus is intelligent . Was it man made ?
Mutating.
No one is exempt.
Deputy Chief Medical Officer Professor Paul Kelly reminding us this afternoon that we've never been successful in developing a vaccine for a coronavirus.
Whether we can is anyone's guess. This is the 'experimental' stage. Not exactly filling with confidence that we will be over this any time soon.
Last two major corona viruses were MERS and SARS. Both of these became wholly contained quite quickly and therefore money ran out to continue development of a vaccine. Medicine and technology continues to evolve, the virus was sequenced by China and shared early so scientists can grow them and observe them in labs. You'd be hopeful that a vaccine would be forthcoming based on the importance of it.
Have a read of this waiting. Viruses mutate all the time but this story gives some hope that this virus is slow mutating (unlike the flu).
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...accine-could-be-long-lasting-2020-3?r=US&IR=T
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/...accine-could-be-long-lasting-2020-3?r=US&IR=T
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Some absolute plonker NSW Labor MP (Shaoquett Moselmane) has been gushing in his praise of the Chinese Govt handling of the virus outbreak. Conveniently neglects to address the subterfuge and cover up that took place when they were first warned which lead the global spreading of the virus . He's apparently made 9 trips to China in the past 10 years
Geez we elect some seriously bone headed politicians in this country. Staggering stuff.
. He's apparently made 9 trips to China in the past 10 years Geez we elect some seriously bone headed politicians in this country. Staggering stuff.
Some absolute plonker NSW Labor MP (Shaoquett Moselmane) has been gushing in his praise of the Chinese Govt handling of the virus outbreak. Conveniently neglects to address the subterfuge and cover up that took place when they were first warned which lead the global spreading of the virus
Geez we elect some seriously bone headed politicians in this country. Staggering stuff.
Staggering Ridley & freightening!
$ kickbacks!
Truth needs to be told & most are aware of it not blinded!
Seems to be a few people misunderstanding what 'mutating' means, biologically speaking. Mutation gets kind of a bad name in pop culture because it is often associated with significant deformations, or disease, or giant leaps in evolution. Mutation is a constant of biology, in that it is an ever present phenomenon. All biological entities, living or semi living in the case of viruses, mutate as they replicate. Mutation is simply a random change to DNA.
The question, evolutionarily, is what is the impact of that mutation? Most mutations are insignificant when it comes to organisms with large genomes with a lot of redundancy. A lot are detrimental. Very few are advantageous to the organism, and usually only happen to be based on the environment they're in.
This is a little different to viruses which have comparatively smaller and less complex genomes with little redundancy. Some viruses recombine their genomes to essentially induce mutations as one of their mechanisms of reproduction. Influenza does this, resulting in antigenic shift.
Antigens are molecules which induce an immune response, and which can cause the specific generation of antibodies (the things which bind to pathogens and neutralise them). Antigens are the things that our immune system 'remembers' when it develops immunity to a pathogen, and the thing that vaccines attempt to target.
Antigenic shift It is a random process that is one of the reasons influenza strains change so dramatically, so quickly, and why immunisations need to be seasonal. This is a sudden and dramatic change to the virus, and is a little different to how coronaviruses have worked, historically. Coronaviruses can have sudden and dramatic rearrangement of their genomes, but usually only as a result of coinfection in animals. Both coronaviruses and influenza are susceptible to something called antigenic drift, though, which is the ongoing minor changes to those antigens based on small random changes to the genome as a results of a 'proof reading error' during replication. Basically, the genome is replicated, and a small coding error is made, and not corrected. As an RNA virus, coronaviruses are particularly susceptible to these little changes, and usually have some continuous fluctuations in what antigens they express. This is why vaccines are so hard to make against these types of viruses. Covid19 has appeared relatively stable to date, but there's no reason for that to be the case throughout this spread.
These types of mutations are the really critical part here, because being able to reinfect hosts, or avoid an immune response is a massive selective advantage to the virus. That is, the mutation is random (changing RNA which changes antigens), but the outcome is beneficial, so it will be conserved and replicate in high numbers. This is different to random mutations which make viruses more or less lethal.
Mutations can also make a virus more deadly. They can also make it less lethal. Here's the thing though, being more lethal should be a selective disadvantage because being more lethal means the individual is quarantined, isolated, and potentially dies. Being dead is not a great way to pass on disease. Being alive and coughing a lot is much better for the virus. So the virus may mutate, but that doesn't mean, as someone here said, it's 'intelligent'. It's no more intelligent than a filter. The mutations that help it avoid the immune system increase in frequency, the mutations that cause it to be more difficult to pass on decrease in frequency.
This is, of course, a complex system and predictions are borderline impossible. For instance, hospitals may see particularly lethal strains in higher proportions, due to the selective event of the more lethal variants being hospitalised. This, along with viral load, may be one of the reasons so many healthcare workers are dying. And it may be that causing a really severe cough is enough of a reproductive advantage to the virus to outweigh the potential disadvantage of killing a host. Who knows. But it may also be the opposite. It may be that we see a less virulent strain spread across communities that effectively isolate symptomatic individuals.
This, by the way, is another fantastic reason for effective quarantine. If we quarantine and isolate anyone symptomatic, we introduce an artificial pressure (just as powerful) toward variants which are less lethal, whilst still creating some form of community immunity.
I'd like to reiterate that there are heaps of unknowns here. And it does seem that Covid19 is more genetically stable than we might otherwise expect meaning a lot of this is moot. At least in the short term. But I'd just like to clarify that the virus is not intelligently seeking to become more harmful. And that mutations aren't necessarily bad things. Like all things in biology, this is an evolutionary arms race, and like most evolutionary arms races, it will probably end up eventually in some form of balance.
The question, evolutionarily, is what is the impact of that mutation? Most mutations are insignificant when it comes to organisms with large genomes with a lot of redundancy. A lot are detrimental. Very few are advantageous to the organism, and usually only happen to be based on the environment they're in.
This is a little different to viruses which have comparatively smaller and less complex genomes with little redundancy. Some viruses recombine their genomes to essentially induce mutations as one of their mechanisms of reproduction. Influenza does this, resulting in antigenic shift.
Antigens are molecules which induce an immune response, and which can cause the specific generation of antibodies (the things which bind to pathogens and neutralise them). Antigens are the things that our immune system 'remembers' when it develops immunity to a pathogen, and the thing that vaccines attempt to target.
Antigenic shift It is a random process that is one of the reasons influenza strains change so dramatically, so quickly, and why immunisations need to be seasonal. This is a sudden and dramatic change to the virus, and is a little different to how coronaviruses have worked, historically. Coronaviruses can have sudden and dramatic rearrangement of their genomes, but usually only as a result of coinfection in animals. Both coronaviruses and influenza are susceptible to something called antigenic drift, though, which is the ongoing minor changes to those antigens based on small random changes to the genome as a results of a 'proof reading error' during replication. Basically, the genome is replicated, and a small coding error is made, and not corrected. As an RNA virus, coronaviruses are particularly susceptible to these little changes, and usually have some continuous fluctuations in what antigens they express. This is why vaccines are so hard to make against these types of viruses. Covid19 has appeared relatively stable to date, but there's no reason for that to be the case throughout this spread.
These types of mutations are the really critical part here, because being able to reinfect hosts, or avoid an immune response is a massive selective advantage to the virus. That is, the mutation is random (changing RNA which changes antigens), but the outcome is beneficial, so it will be conserved and replicate in high numbers. This is different to random mutations which make viruses more or less lethal.
Mutations can also make a virus more deadly. They can also make it less lethal. Here's the thing though, being more lethal should be a selective disadvantage because being more lethal means the individual is quarantined, isolated, and potentially dies. Being dead is not a great way to pass on disease. Being alive and coughing a lot is much better for the virus. So the virus may mutate, but that doesn't mean, as someone here said, it's 'intelligent'. It's no more intelligent than a filter. The mutations that help it avoid the immune system increase in frequency, the mutations that cause it to be more difficult to pass on decrease in frequency.
This is, of course, a complex system and predictions are borderline impossible. For instance, hospitals may see particularly lethal strains in higher proportions, due to the selective event of the more lethal variants being hospitalised. This, along with viral load, may be one of the reasons so many healthcare workers are dying. And it may be that causing a really severe cough is enough of a reproductive advantage to the virus to outweigh the potential disadvantage of killing a host. Who knows. But it may also be the opposite. It may be that we see a less virulent strain spread across communities that effectively isolate symptomatic individuals.
This, by the way, is another fantastic reason for effective quarantine. If we quarantine and isolate anyone symptomatic, we introduce an artificial pressure (just as powerful) toward variants which are less lethal, whilst still creating some form of community immunity.
I'd like to reiterate that there are heaps of unknowns here. And it does seem that Covid19 is more genetically stable than we might otherwise expect meaning a lot of this is moot. At least in the short term. But I'd just like to clarify that the virus is not intelligently seeking to become more harmful. And that mutations aren't necessarily bad things. Like all things in biology, this is an evolutionary arms race, and like most evolutionary arms races, it will probably end up eventually in some form of balance.
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An anomaly? Probably. Concerning? Definitely.
Coronavirus: 13-year-old boy dies, says London hospital trust
Ismail Mohamed Abdulwahab is thought to be the youngest person to have died with the virus in the UK.
www.bbc.com
Got to really question whether he has a hidden agenda.Some absolute plonker NSW Labor MP (Shaoquett Moselmane) has been gushing in his praise of the Chinese Govt handling of the virus outbreak. Conveniently neglects to address the subterfuge and cover up that took place when they were first warned which lead the global spreading of the virus
Geez we elect some seriously bone headed politicians in this country. Staggering stuff.
'You must be a potential leader': Labor MP's staffer links to China's Communist Party
NSW Labor MLC Shaoquett Moselman hired a staffer who completed a propaganda training course in Beijing run by the Chinese Communist Party.
