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Coronavirus

MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
4,323
883
It's almost as if you have a massive chip on your shoulder about something.
Yeh, probably shouldn't get too caught up in it. Just get annoyed with the undertone of criticism of gov't decisions to open up, the posting articles about "young" people getting sick from Corona (yes they do but in minute numbers and face far greater risks from other preventable causes - how about we see names of young people who have died in such circumstances and their stories for some balance?) and posting about VIC opening up too early? Add it to the inflammatory comments about golf and fishing in VIC. I would understand bans on activities if they were based on evidence but those bans were not based on any evidence or common sense. And I would understand if there were valid criticisms of other decisions if they were supported by evidence/data but it appears just pot shots are taken for the sake of it.

Many appear to have little empathy for the massive social disaster that will far exceed the death toll from covid-19 in Aust. Gov'ts have done a terrific job in minimising the health impact. They are now trying to stem the economic impact and are criticised. Surely we need to have some faith in each other and take some personal responsibility for our actions?

Perhaps I'm just annoyed because I haven't had my coffee this morning.
 

Tigers of Old

Proud of our Club.
Jul 26, 2004
65,285
2,833
The Age saying today both Vic & NSW have used app:


10.43am
Victoria and NSW have both used COVIDSafe: Hunt
By Anthony Colangelo
Mr Hunt says Victoria and NSW have used the COVIDSafe app while trying to track the spread of the virus in their states.
He said it was untrue that NSW health authorities were unable to access the app’s data, despite reports to the contrary.
“The Victorian government has informed us that they have used it,” he said.
“Our understanding is that other states have used it previously."
Earlier this morning, Victoria's Department of Health and Human Services said it had accessed the COVIDSafe app and would try to trace a patient's close contacts for the first time.
"On Monday evening, Victorian Public Health team identified a COVID-19 positive patient who had the COVIDSafe App registered on their phone," the Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement this morning.
"The patient consented to Victoria using data on their phone which has been downloaded to look for potential contacts."
The spokesperson said there had been few opportunities to use the app so far, with only a small number of cases of community transmission in Victoria.
"We hope this continues."



Of course won't help if those close contacts haven't downloaded the app also or if patients themselves haven't downloaded the app, the more that do so the better.
That's good if true.
Agree the more that download the app the better. I certainly think it's a good initiative.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
36,270
3,466
That's good if true.
Agree the more that download the app the better. I certainly think it's a good initiative.
Doesn't the App still have the iOS issue where if it's not on, running as the main app it doesn't work? You'd have to question how effective it is unless are happy to have that open on their iPhone all the time.

Same issue with the tracking app in Singapore. Android works well, iOS not so well.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Superstar
Dec 11, 2017
2,066
1,436
Melbourne
MD Jazz, we don't know the long term consequences of catching COVID19 on young or old people. As for common sense, common sense tells me that people playing golf or fishing (or whatever really just you used these examples) will, on the whole, socially distance, but there will be a few who won't and it becomes hard to control when large numbers are involved. It is the same as going to the beach, fine if a couple of hundred people go to a large beach, but the reality is we know (using common sense) that if the weather is ok thousands will go and that means social distancing is no longer possible. The problem is that once you open it up the numbers can't be controlled.

What we do know from previous epidemics is that the likelihood of a second wave is very high, hence the slow and tentative opening up of various activities.

We have done well so far, let's not f*** it up now.

DS
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
17,665
1,938
Yeh, probably shouldn't get too caught up in it. Just get annoyed with the undertone of criticism of gov't decisions to open up, the posting articles about "young" people getting sick from Corona (yes they do but in minute numbers and face far greater risks from other preventable causes - how about we see names of young people who have died in such circumstances and their stories for some balance?) and posting about VIC opening up too early? Add it to the inflammatory comments about golf and fishing in VIC. I would understand bans on activities if they were based on evidence but those bans were not based on any evidence or common sense. And I would understand if there were valid criticisms of other decisions if they were supported by evidence/data but it appears just pot shots are taken for the sake of it.

Many appear to have little empathy for the massive social disaster that will far exceed the death toll from covid-19 in Aust. Gov'ts have done a terrific job in minimising the health impact. They are now trying to stem the economic impact and are criticised. Surely we need to have some faith in each other and take some personal responsibility for our actions?

Perhaps I'm just annoyed because I haven't had my coffee this morning.
Coffee is important.

Old people and sick people with underlying conditions are still people. We should try to save all of them. When they get corona they all have an impact on the health system, and more people with other conditions will die as a result, young, old, whoever. Plus the associated risk to our healthcare professionals.

Conditions that cause other deaths of young people are generally not contagious and cases will not grow exponentially.

So you couldn't play golf or fish for a couple of months. You can debate the merit or otherwise of these policies, but in my mind it was a small price to pay. Consider the associated risks - travelling, refueling, eating, socialising. There's also the risk of "well if they can play golf why can't I play tennis" arguments.

We all have empathy for jobs lost/lives damaged/lives lost through economic impacts. Again its a policy risk/reward question - everyone wants to go back to work. Everyone wants to earn an income. Business owners want to reopen. What's the balance? If we open too early and we get a second wave and have to shut down, what then? You want to go through another three months of lockdown? What will that do to the economy?

Opinions are fine, that's why we are on here, but to claim the moral high ground of being facts and evidence based while other arguments aren't is just silly. The argument that we just need to trust each other to do the right thing is nice, but runs completely counter to your "evidence based" line you use elsewhere.
 
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Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
10,712
1,281
Out of control in Brazil. 16,000 plus new cases and 1100 plus deaths in the latest 24 hour period.

Now the 4th highest infection tally globally and 6th highest death tally.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
17,665
1,938
In Indonesia which I see as potentially another Brazil the situation hasn't exploded yet. There are mixed messages between the national government and local governments. Plenty of towns and villages have implemented their own lockdowns given the feds are unwilling to do that. Official numbers are low (high for SE Asia) but testing rates are still very very low here. Anecdotal evidence says lots of people are dying (old people from respiratory disease) but because of money and the religious factor they are generally in ground within 24 hours, untested.

Unofficially Jakarta appears to be slowly ramping up again, we are coming into end of Ramadan so will be interesting to see what happens after that.
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
17,665
1,938
Out of control in Brazil. 16,000 plus new cases and 1100 plus deaths in the latest 24 hour period.

Now the 4th highest infection tally globally and 6th highest death tally.
I saw they have their third health minister in as many months. Bolsonaro, like Trump, seems particularly unsuited to a problem like this.
 
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MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
4,323
883
Opinions are fine, that's why we are on here, but to claim the moral high ground of being facts and evidence based while other arguments aren't is just silly. The argument that we just need to trust each other to do the right thing is nice, but runs completely counter to your "evidence based" line you use elsewhere.
Not claiming any high moral ground. Just supporting the gov't decisions to open up. I think they are doing the right thing, the national cabinet is full of talented people who have done the right thing so far. Why would I doubt they are still not making decisions based on what is best for the country. And it is being led by both sides of politics. Again, you seem to argue that old and sick lives are most important without acknowledging the opportunity cost of such actions.
 

Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
11,405
431
Out of control in Brazil. 16,000 plus new cases and 1100 plus deaths in the latest 24 hour period.

Now the 4th highest infection tally globally and 6th highest death tally.
i bet people are happier though going about their normal routines.
 
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antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
17,665
1,938
Not claiming any high moral ground. Just supporting the gov't decisions to open up. I think they are doing the right thing, the national cabinet is full of talented people who have done the right thing so far. Why would I doubt they are still not making decisions based on what is best for the country. And it is being led by both sides of politics. Again, you seem to argue that old and sick lives are most important without acknowledging the opportunity cost of such actions.
I clearly acknowledged the opportunity cost -and the risks.

I clearly stated that all lives are valuable.

This is getting tiresome so I'll leave you to your ruminations.
 

MD Jazz

Tiger Champion
Feb 3, 2017
4,323
883
i bet people are happier though going about their normal routines.
Unfortunately another either/or statement with little substance. Suppose you think they should all stay at home and rely on Brazilian jobseeker?
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Superstar
Dec 11, 2017
2,066
1,436
Melbourne
Not claiming any high moral ground. Just supporting the gov't decisions to open up. I think they are doing the right thing, the national cabinet is full of talented people who have done the right thing so far. Why would I doubt they are still not making decisions based on what is best for the country. And it is being led by both sides of politics. Again, you seem to argue that old and sick lives are most important without acknowledging the opportunity cost of such actions.
You mean the opportunity cost of preventing deaths which are preventable? What if that death is you? How would you calculate the opportunity cost of that?

If our economy is so damned fragile that preventing death causes all these problems, then maybe we need a new economy.

DS
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
36,270
3,466
What's a bit worrying is Brazil is really picking up steam now. It's also coming into their winter / flu season. If the two are related then the rest of the Sth Hemisphere countries need to be very vigilant.
 
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Tigers of Old

Proud of our Club.
Jul 26, 2004
65,285
2,833
Trump's got it all sorted. Less testing clearly equates to less cases. Equates to him doing well.

He's a dangerous *smile* moron. He's decided to follow the CCP on this one. Any stats out of the USA now are tainted.
 
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