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Coronavirus

IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
16,319
566
Melbourne
On the security guard thing....I am more interested in why it didn't work in two hotels but 10 others seemed to be ok. What were the differences in procedures and controls, if any? The answers would be illuminating to me. Was there a single lapse or several?

Same with aged care and hospitals....why did only some care centres get cases? Why were some able to contain them? Why did it go completely off the rails in others? In private groups that were cutting corners across multiple sites why didn't every one of their centres have breakouts ie how did some get through without nurses and PPE?

It comes down to who gets infected, some people become super spreaders due to their own personal circumstances and physiology I guess. There have been quite a few articles from epidemiologists talking about this. Clearly infection control also plays a large part but it is possible that a person gets infected and doesn't infect anyone else. IMO the decision on the security guards is almost completely irrelevant, infection control and contact tracing were the major factors, and they go back to DHHS being a basket case for a long long time.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
12,605
2,558
Camberwell
Same with hospitals....would expect that all being state controlled, unlimited budgets and doctors in charge and well resourced nursing rosters that they should have been well buttressed...again some kept the virus out, others didn't.
Where on earth did you get the idea that public hospitals had unlimited budgets?
 
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22nd Man

Tiger Legend
Aug 29, 2011
6,055
1,357
Essex Heights
Where on earth did you get the idea that public hospitals had unlimited budgets?
Unlimited as in no compromise in what was needed to be spent to implement the necessary COVID protections? Or not?
And why I think the analysis is needed is that at some time in 2021 we are going to have to start accepting arrivals even if it is just Australian citizens, so we must have full confidence in quarantine protocols. Equally we need to keep aged care and hospitals as prepared as possible so that any small community outbreaks don't infiltrate those vulnerable locations.
I'm sure it's being done by hospitals and PS depts, but I wonder if any thing will made public.
 

Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
12,605
2,558
Camberwell
Unlimited as in no compromise in what was needed to be spent to implement the necessary COVID protections? Or not?
You can throw all the money you like at it but if the PPE is not available or the ICU equipment is not immediately available then it will take time. There Is also not an unlimited supply of qualified doctors and nurses out there. Money does not equal the resources, those resources have to be available.
I have said a few times on here that the number of infections we have had in hospitals, given how infectious this thing is and how hospital are the places which are the highest risk, is very low by any standard. There have been outbreaks but very low numbers of staff catching it from patients and vice versa. Asymptomatic infectious staff catching it elsewhere has been the biggest issue. Outbreaks in hospitals have also been managed very quickly.

Aged care is a whole other issue.

There was lots of evidence in the inquiry about those hotels that didn’t have a problem. That didn’t get reported much because it doesn’t make a juicy headline
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
3,709
3,960
Melbourne
I still think quarantine should be in a dedicated facility, not hotels in the city.

Good, isolated, quarantine, just outside Melbourne with fly in fly out staffing and I reckon we could open up the borders with little chance of infection. Plus, we test those who come out of quarantine one and two weeks after they leave and we trace their contacts after they have left the quarantine.

DS
 
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antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
20,111
5,348
I still think quarantine should be in a dedicated facility, not hotels in the city.

Good, isolated, quarantine, just outside Melbourne with fly in fly out staffing and I reckon we could open up the borders with little chance of infection. Plus, we test those who come out of quarantine one and two weeks after they leave and we trace their contacts after they have left the quarantine.

DS

I did read somewhere that the Feds were considering a quarantine facility near Darwin.
 
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MD Jazz

Tiger Legend
Feb 3, 2017
5,634
2,626
It comes down to who gets infected, some people become super spreaders due to their own personal circumstances and physiology I guess.

I keep reading this term and it is not correct. There are not super spreaders there are super spreading events. Not sure why you and David continue to post this misinformation.
 

MD Jazz

Tiger Legend
Feb 3, 2017
5,634
2,626
Dan has done the right thing not allowing grand final parties. People would likely flout the numbers, be drinking, be indoors almost the whole time (it’s at night) and be drinking so social distancing would go out the window.
 
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bigwow

Tiger Champion
Jul 24, 2003
4,544
1,068
Melbourne
Dan has done the right thing not allowing grand final parties. People would likely flout the numbers, be drinking, be indoors almost the whole time (it’s at night) and be drinking so social distancing would go out the window.
People will still have GF parties, they think they're above the law.
 

IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
16,319
566
Melbourne
I keep reading this term and it is not correct. There are not super spreaders there are super spreading events. Not sure why you and David continue to post this misinformation.

I think thats just a matter of semantics, there are super spreading events and super spreaders.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
12,605
2,558
Camberwell
It comes down to who gets infected, some people become super spreaders due to their own personal circumstances and physiology I guess. There have been quite a few articles from epidemiologists talking about this. Clearly infection control also plays a large part but it is possible that a person gets infected and doesn't infect anyone else. IMO the decision on the security guards is almost completely irrelevant, infection control and contact tracing were the major factors, and they go back to DHHS being a basket case for a long long time.
Yes. It is not clear how many security guards got infected but it wasn't many. The issue wasn't so much the security guards as what happened next which as you say was a mixture of infection prevention/PPE/training at the hotels and then contact tracing thereafter. Not just the contact tracing protocols but also the fact that some infected people did not cooperate.
Behind all this stuff around security guards is an assumption that police or the ADF would have done better. Maybe they would have in some ways but to me that is by no means certain because those organisations know little or nothing about infection control as well, what would have been different is that if they were infected they would have been isolated and would have cooperated.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
12,605
2,558
Camberwell
Yeh dan doesn’t need to front the press every day, I’m sure his time could be more usefully spent and you would find they would be a lot shorter with less hacks looking for gotcha moments. I’d rather he spend the extra 2 hours every day working.
I don't think he needs to either and we would all be better off if he stopped imo.

As an aside I thought he looked terrible yesterday, exhausted.
 
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DavidSSS

Tiger Champion
Dec 11, 2017
3,709
3,960
Melbourne
Numbers seem to be staying low, but we'll see when we start getting weekday numbers again tomorrow.

I agree in the Grand Final parties, would be very likely to increase the spread. We have it down now so let's keep it that way. Indoors at a friend's/relative's house is where the mask comes off and people are close for long periods.

Here's what it is looking like now:

COVID19 7 day ave 19102020.jpg

Plus some numbers:

DateNew Infections7 Day Trailing ave5 Day Centred ave14 Day Trailing ave
12 October 20201110.579.4010.29
13 October 2020510.577.609.93
14 October 2020610.145.009.36
15 October 202029.003.209.14
16 October 202017.143.008.57
17 October 202025.868.00
18 October 202044.437.71

Heard Norman Swan on the radio this morning, we are the only country to have had an outbreak of 700 a day and then got it down to single figures. We're doing ok but opening up and then sorting out travel into Australia and even travel for Australians going overseas looks like it is going to be a very difficult issue.

DS
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
11,890
1,126
I did read somewhere that the Feds were considering a quarantine facility near Darwin.
I think that is Howard Springs, which is currently being used. The suggestion is that the capacity could be increased.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
11,890
1,126
On the security guard thing....I am more interested in why it didn't work in two hotels but 10 others seemed to be ok. What were the differences in procedures and controls, if any? The answers would be illuminating to me. Was there a single lapse or several?

Same with aged care and hospitals....why did only some care centres get cases? Why were some able to contain them? Why did it go completely off the rails in others? In private groups that were cutting corners across multiple sites why didn't every one of their centres have breakouts ie how did some get through without nurses and PPE?

Same with hospitals....would expect that all being state controlled, unlimited budgets and doctors in charge and well resourced nursing rosters that they should have been well buttressed...again some kept the virus out, others didn't.

Simply finding out who approved something doesn't answer these questions.
i believe private security is being used currently at hotels in Northern WA where cargo ships with known cases are docking.
 
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Althom

Tiger Matchwinner
Jul 23, 2016
633
517
i believe private security is being used currently at hotels in Northern WA where cargo ships with known cases are docking.
The hotel in Port Hedland was being guarded by Navy personnel supported by private security. The ship has now sailed so there's no one left in quarantine in Port Hedland.
There were 2 ships late last week with confirmed cases - one now docked off Perth with the positive test person in hotel quarantine and the other in transit from Geraldton to Perth with the infected person isolating on board.
 
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OldTiger67

Tiger Rookie
Jun 6, 2016
163
38
I think that is Howard Springs, which is currently being used. The suggestion is that the capacity could be increased.
I am currently at the Howard Springs facility - on the way to the GF. I can say that it is huge (capacity over 3000) and very well run.

Please google it and watch the YouTube videos.
 
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Sintiger

Tiger Legend
Aug 11, 2010
12,605
2,558
Camberwell
i believe private security is being used currently at hotels in Northern WA where cargo ships with known cases are docking.
There is private security being used all over the place. We are using police now in Victoria but when the airports open we don't have an endless supply of Police to be guarding hotels! Might be a good time to commit a crime if you are that way inclined
 

antman

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
20,111
5,348
I am currently at the Howard Springs facility - on the way to the GF. I can say that it is huge (capacity over 3000) and very well run.

Please google it and watch the YouTube videos.

Apparently charter flights from the UK, India and one other location (forget which) over the next few months might drop repatriates here.