Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Coronavirus

DjJazzyPete

Tiger Matchwinner
Sep 8, 2014
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882
Nata , Botswana
84 deaths this week in Bots getting worse .. 3 were ppl we know,one we only saw 2 weeks ago :( .. no vax to 2013 ? maybe
 

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DavidSSS

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Dec 11, 2017
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Melbourne
84 deaths this week in Bots getting worse .. 3 were ppl we know,one we only saw 2 weeks ago :( .. no vax to 2013 ? maybe

Hmm, not good, and Botswana has been going fairly well from memory before COVID.

I presume the South African strain coming in with migrant workers returning so the vaccines not so effective going by the latest data.

Hope Botswana can get out of this and recover.

Keep safe.

DS
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
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Melbourne

Mission to China fails to find source of coronavirus (paywalled)​

Zoe Smith, Tiffany Bakker, Maria Bervanakis, Nadia Salemme, Tamsin Rose and Nathan Vass
Herald Sun
February 10, 2021

Fury is growing as the World Health Organisation was accused of a “whitewash” as it found the coronavirus likely didn’t originate at the Wuhan wet market or come from a lab leak.

Both suggestions that the virus could have originally crossed to humans at the Huanan Seafood Market, or escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) were thrown out in a lengthy joint press conference.

WHO’s findings appeared to largely back China’s protestations that the virus may have originated from outside of its borders and its repeated denials of a lab accident.

It is a move which will only fuel allegations of “China-centric” bias by WHO which have been fiercely lobbied by the US.

And despite offering further explanations, the WHO team admitted they have failed to identify the original source of the COVID-19 outbreak.

Former US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo told Fox News he didn’t believe the WHO team was given the “access that they needed” to do a thorough investigation.

He said Chinese scientists and doctors may not have been able to speak freely with WHO investigators.

Mr Pompeo also claimed that there remained “significant evidence that [COVID-19] came from that laboratory”.

Asked whether his mind had been changed over the alleged lab origins of the virus, Mr Pompeo said, “Not a thing.”

“This is a complete whitewash,” added British MP Tobias Ellwood.

“Given the global economic devastation and death toll this pandemic has caused – never again should a country responsible for an outbreak be allowed to hinder an international investigation for a full 12 months.”

China’s government has long been accused of covering up the pandemic’s origins – and has been continuing to attempt to deflect blame.

WHO scientists appeared alongside their Chinese counterparts as they cast doubt on the Wuhan wet market as the original source and dismissed the lab leak as “extremely unlikely”.

Dr Peter Ben Embarek, the head of the WHO mission, said: “The laboratory incident hypothesis is extremely unlikely to explain the introduction of the virus into the human population.

“Therefore is not in the hypotheses that we will suggest for future studies.”

Instead the team offered speculative explanations including a possible jump from animals to humans elsewhere, or even that it may have come across borders on frozen food.

WHO concluded the virus likely jumped to humans from an animal – but now the question is to where this occurred as doubt was cast over the wet market as the source of the original transmission.

TRANSMISSION FROM BATS ‘UNLIKELY’

The team also admitted the virus could have been circulating in other regions of China “several weeks” before it was identified after an outbreak at the wet market in Wuhan.

Experts believe the disease — which has killed more than 2.3 million people worldwide — originated in bats and could have been transmitted to humans via another mammal.

Dr Embarek said identifying the animal pathway remains a “work in progress”, and the absence of bats in the Wuhan area dimmed the likelihood of direct transmission.

The team handed down their findings at a press conference in Wuhan, after a month of meetings and site visits in the Chinese city where the virus was first identified.

Dr Embarek said that while bats had a “natural reservoir” for coronavirus, it is unlikely that they were in Wuhan.

It was “most likely” to have come from an intermediary species, he said. He also backed up China’s position that there was no evidence of “large outbreaks” in Wuhan before December when the first official cases were recorded.

Animals such as rabbits, ferrets and bamboo rats could be the intermediary, another team member Marion Koopmans added, saying they might be an “entry point” for further investigations.

“Therefore we have tried to find what other animals were introduced that could have introduced the virus,” he said.

“The market was dealing primarily with frozen animal products and mainly seafood but there were also vendors selling products from domesticated wildlife and imported products.

“There is the potential to continue to follow this lead and animals that were supplied to the market in frozen and other semi-processed or raw form.”

The report followed a month of meetings and site visits in Wuhanm, with team members visiting key sites including the Huanan wet market and the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Liang Wannian, head of the China side of the joint mission, said animal transmission remained the likely route, but “the reservoir hosts remain to be identified”.

Dr Embarek quashed the theory that a leak from a virology lab in Wuhan could have caused the pandemic.

“The laboratory incident hypothesis is extremely unlikely,” he said. It “is not in the hypotheses that we will suggest for future studies”.

The mission was a diplomatically knotty one — presaged by fears of a whitewash — with the US demanding a “robust” probe and China firing back with a warning not to “politicise” the investigation.

The WHO experts spent a month in China including two weeks in quarantine. Liang said studies showed the virus could be “carried long-distance on cold chain products”, appearing to nudge towards the theory the virus was imported — an idea that has abounded in China in recent months.

Dr Embarek said “the virus can persist and survive in conditions that are found in these cold and frozen environments”.

“But we don’t really understand if the virus can then transmit to humans and under which conditions this could happen,” he said.

Beijing is desperate to defang criticism of its handling of the chaotic early stages of the outbreak.

It has tried to refocus attention on its handling and recovery while floating the theory that the virus emerged abroad and was brought into China possibly via frozen foods.

Dr Koopmans said the next steps could include searching for “earlier circulation” of the virus.

Reporters were largely kept at arms’ length from the experts during their closely-monitored visit, but snippets of their findings crept out via Twitter and interviews.

Questions have been asked about the relevance of some of their activities to their stated aim of finding the virus source — including a visit to a propaganda exhibition celebrating China’s recovery from the pandemic.

The group spent just an hour at the seafood market where many of the first reported clusters of infections emerged over a year ago.

They also appeared to spend several days inside their hotel, receiving visits from various Chinese officials without venturing out into the city.

Research was carried out at the Wuhan virology institute where they spent nearly four hours. They met with Chinese scientists there including Shi Zhengli, one of China’s leading experts on bat coronaviruses and a deputy director of the Wuhan lab.

Scientists at the laboratory conduct research on some of the world’s most dangerous diseases, including strains of bat coronaviruses similar to COVID-19.

Former US president Donald Trump frequently repeated a controversial theory that a lab leak may have been the source of the pandemic.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
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Melbourne
There is no evidence of a leak from the lab, Pompeo can keep repeating that hypothesis but repeating does not make it true. In fact, Pompeo is making it harder to find the real source by muddying the debate. I'm sure China are happy with this as it means they just have to keep batting away a conspiracy theory which has no evidence.

The fact that it is unlikely it transmitted directly via bats in Wuhan does indicate it came to Wuhan another way, but you would have to think the most likely place where the virus jumped to humans is within China.

The WHO is a creature of the UN which is made up of states. It has to tread carefully in any country, the more powerful the country the more careful it has to be. It would be nice if the WHO could access anywhere and anything in their investigations, but, that would not be the case in any country which wants to block enquiries and has the power to do so. China might be worse than most countries but free access would be very unlikely in many countries. The fact of the WHO enquiry not being able to access all the evidence which may exist is more a reflection of the powerlessness of the WHO in the face of any powerful country than anything else.

It's not as if the world has ever been given free access to apportion blame in the past. Look at the Spanish Flu, it was called the Spanish Flu because the Spanish King contracted the virus and they didn't hide it. The rest of Europe was covering it up as they were still finishing their war. It did not start in Spain, of that we can be sure. There is a theory it came from the USA although the evidence for that is dodgy, the reality is we don't know.

DS
 
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Ridley

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Jul 21, 2003
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Dan and Lisa's best practice hotel quarantine program not having a great couple of weeks.
 
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IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
18,087
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Melbourne
Dan and Lisa's best practice hotel quarantine program not having a great couple of weeks.

Most states have had problems with hotel quarantine, the whole policy was flawed from the start, remote quarantine facilities are needed Australia wide.
 
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Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
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Most states have had problems with hotel quarantine, the whole policy was flawed from the start, remote quarantine facilities are needed Australia wide.
Agree on remote quarantine facilities; I've been advocating that for ages.

The VIC quarantine reset started well but there are obvious gaps that need fixing now. Unfortunately we have had more quarantine issues in VIC than other states. These latest outbreaks are frustrating but hopefully our contact tracing is "best practice" and we can keep on top it and shut it down like we did with the Black Rock cluster.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
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Melbourne
I think not so much remote quarantine as quarantine on the edge of the city where there is still the ability to transport people to hospital if needed.

For a less vitriolic view of the WHO attempts to investigate the sources of this virus, the ABC reported the following:

World Health Organization team in China says COVID-19 probably came from animals, but no evidence it originated in bats​

The World Health Organization team in the Chinese city of Wuhan says viruses similar to SARS-CoV-2 can be found in many animals, but they have been unable to find direct evidence of animal-human transmission.

The team, along with Chinese experts and counterparts, held a press conference to announce the conclusion into their fact-finding mission into the origins of COVID-19 in the central Chinese city where the outbreak was discovered in late 2019.

The head of the WHO team said its investigation had uncovered new information but had not dramatically changed the picture of the outbreak.

Peter Ben Embarek, a WHO virus expert, told the press conference that work to identify the origins of the coronavirus points to a natural reservoir in bats, but it is unlikely that they were in Wuhan.

China's head of the COVID-19 expert panel, Liang Wannian, said it believed that the disease may have originated from a zoonotic transmission, or from animals to humans, which then evolved.

However, he said the reservoir host has yet to be identified.

While bats and pangolins could possibly be the reservoir due to high similarities of genetic sequences, there was no evidence to suggest their coronavirus had a direct link to COVID-19, he said.

"Coronaviruses that are genetically related with SARS-CoV-2 have been identified in different animals including horses … bats and pangolins," he said, referring to the virus which causes COVID-19.

"Sampling of bats in Hubei province, however, has failed to find evidence of SARS-CoV-2 in native viruses, and sampling of wildlife in different places in China has so far failed to identify the presence of SARS-CoV-2."

Dr Liang said the susceptibility of felines such as minks or cats to the virus could also mean that they can act as a potential reservoir, however there is not enough sample size and it is still currently being investigated.

'Widespread contamination of surfaces'​

Dr Liang said early cases in 2020 were linked to exposure to Wuhan's Huanan Seafood Market, as samples found a "widespread contamination of surfaces" of the virus in the market.

However, he said it was not possible to determine how the virus was introduced to the wet market.

"While some of the early cases had an association with the market, others were associated with other markets and others had no association with markets at all," he said.
The team also said there was no evidence of transmission in Wuhan before December 2019.

WHO food safety and animal diseases expert Peter Ben Embarek said the coronavirus is unlikely to have leaked from a Chinese lab.

He said it had most probably jumped to humans via an intermediary species and bats remained a likely source.

Transmission of the virus via frozen food was a possibility that warrants further investigation, he added.

China has strongly denied the possibility of a leak from the lab and has promoted unproven theories that the virus may have originated elsewhere before being brought to Wuhan, including possibly on imported frozen food packaging.

Mr Embarek, said the team's work had uncovered new information but had not dramatically changed their picture of the outbreak.

"The possible path from whatever original animal species all the way through to the Huanan market could have taken a very long and convoluted path involving also movements across borders," Mr Embarek said.

Mr Embarek said work to identify the coronavirus's origins points to a natural reservoir in bats, but it is unlikely that they were in Wuhan.

Investigators were also looking for Chinese blood samples that could indicate that the virus was circulating earlier than first thought, he said.

"In trying to understand the picture of December 2019 we embarked on a very detailed and profound search for other cases that may have been missed, cases earlier on in 2019," he said.

"And the conclusion was we did not find evidence of large outbreaks that could be related to cases of COVID-19 prior to December 2019 in Wuhan or elsewhere."

China says tracing origin of virus would involve multiple countries

The visit by the WHO team took months to negotiate after China only agreed to it amid massive international pressure at the World Health Assembly meeting last May, and Beijing has continued to deny calls for a strictly independent investigation.

Chinese authorities have kept a tight hold on information about the possible causes of the pandemic that has now infected more than 105 million people and killed more than 2.2 million worldwide.

The WHO team of 14 experts in veterinary medicine, virology, food safety and epidemiology, spent weeks on the ground visiting various places including the Huanan Seafood Market, Wuhan Institute of Virology and various hospitals who treated people infected with COVID-19.

The WHO said team members were limited to visits organised by their Chinese hosts and would not have any contact with community members, due to health concerns.

In announcing the experts' visit last month, Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said: "The tracing of the virus origin will most likely involve multiple countries and localities."
Article is here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02...vid-19-team-mission-results-covid-19/13137984

More info on tracing viruses is also useful.

COVID-19, Hendra and SARS: How scientists trace viruses through animals to their source​

The first mission to Wuhan in search of the source of SARS-CoV-2 — the virus that causes COVID-19 — wrapped up this week.

More than a dozen experts from around the world, including epidemiologists, veterinarians, medical doctors and virologists, spent the past fortnight looking for clues to the virus's origins.

Last night, at a press conference, World Health Organization food safety and animal diseases expert Peter Ben Embarek said the coronavirus is unlikely to have leaked from a Chinese lab, and most probably jumped to humans via an intermediary species.

And that fact-finding mission will be the first of quite a few, if previous outbreaks are anything to go by.

COVID-19 is the latest in a long line of zoonotic diseases — infections that started in animals, but spilled into the human population.

Typically, identifying the animals in which a virus normally lives — called the primary reservoir — takes many years, said Hume Field, a veterinary epidemiologist who has helped trace the source of a number of viruses, including the first SARS virus in China and Hendra in Australia.

The animal origins of the first SARS virus SARS-CoV-1, which made to jump to humans in 2002, wasn't nailed until 2017, when Chinese scientists reported that they'd found all the genetic building blocks of SARS in a single population of horseshoe bats.

Sometimes scientists can search for years and still not find a definitive primary reservoir, as has been the case with Ebola (so far).

Other times, though, it can happen relatively quickly, said Dr Field, who is now Science and Policy Adviser for China and South-East Asia with US-based NGO EcoHealth Alliance.

"The case of flying foxes in Australia and the Hendra virus was probably one of the shortest periods of time — it only took a couple of years," he said.

There is more in that article here: https://www.abc.net.au/news/science...cing-animal-origins-bats-sars-hendra/13081684

This is actual investigation of the possible sources, looking for evidence.

Clearly China is obfuscating and trying to avoid any scrutiny, they don't want the blame and they are powerful enough to be able to deflect scrutiny and they will make a pretty good fist of avoiding any blame.

Of course, the deflecting is only helped by conspiracy theories which muddy the waters.

What we need is for the rest of the world to support the WHO to try and find the cause of the outbreak so that maximum pressure can be put on China to open the way for an investigation of causes. This is unlikely as China is powerful enough to split countries' resolve in standing up to them.

DS
 
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Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
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The Holiday Inn cluster(*smile*) is now up to 8 cases. Another worker and another returned traveller who had already left quarantine have tested positive.

World's best hotel quarantine practice looking anything but on a daily basis. South Australia has closed the border to people who have been in metropolitan Melbourne and surrounds.

This could get ugly again. I truly hope not. Contact tracing is the key as it appears there will be more positive cases out of this Hotel California.
 

craig

Tiger Legend
Aug 19, 2004
45,627
29,174
Melbourne
Another day, another Victorian HQ worker infected. Exposure sites listed below.
Also a NSW returned traveler tests positive after the 14 day quarantine period is over. With warninsg issued in southern Sydney to Wollongong.

In other news the 57 million AstraZeneca made vaccines we have purchased reportedly offers limited protection against the SA variant. Great.
I'm sure Astra Zeneca arent too concerned considering they've already been paid.
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
17,850
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The Holiday Inn cluster(*smile*) is now up to 8 cases. Another worker and another returned traveller who had already left quarantine have tested positive.

World's best hotel quarantine practice looking anything but on a daily basis. South Australia has closed the border to people who have been in metropolitan Melbourne and surrounds.

This could get ugly again. I truly hope not. Contact tracing is the key as it appears there will be more positive cases out of this Hotel California.

I'd still say we are still world beating. Meanwhile the UK has just promoted their "world beating" quarantine programme, that has tests on days 4 and day 8 of 14 day quarantine, despite the fact that thats now 3 people from hotel quarantine who had a negative test by I think day 14 and then tested positive on day 16.

Boris Johnson yet again leading the blind it seems.
 
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Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
34,360
26,207
Tel Aviv
The Holiday Inn cluster(*smile*) is now up to 8 cases. Another worker and another returned traveller who had already left quarantine have tested positive.

World's best hotel quarantine practice looking anything but on a daily basis. South Australia has closed the border to people who have been in metropolitan Melbourne and surrounds.

This could get ugly again. I truly hope not. Contact tracing is the key as it appears there will be more positive cases out of this Hotel California.

Hear ! Hear Chimpley ! Concise, accurate and informative (somewhat). Unusual for you.

What's with the 'R' ? Are you Robin now from Batman & Robin ? Makes sense. Second string.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,523
17,874
Melbourne
Why don't they use cabins in caravan parks near large cities for quarantine? No need to build anything, you can easily cordon off the area where the returned travellers are, you could do it in batches of caravan parks and just circulate the ones you use, a boon for local suppliers, a boon for the caravan parks, people get to sit outside and have air circulating, less chance the virus will circulate when people are in separate cabins as opposed to nearby rooms.

Our hotel quarantine probably is world's best . . . but when you consider what is happening overseas that is saying very very little.

There are better alternatives.

DS
 
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