Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Coronavirus

Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
Anti vaccinations is a personal choice. I was wondering if you personally are against vaccinations? Whether that be all or specifically to Covid?
No I am not against vaccinations as a principle. My personal belief is they make a lot of sense for managing the risk of debilitating illness but otherwise for illnesses that your immune system should be able to handle I'm not inclined to use them (Flu vaccinations for example). I think it's important to have long term data to access long term effects of taking vaccines and I also don't like when vaccine producers are given immunity from libel. I don't feel comfortable taking the COVID vaccines on offer for the time being given the combination that I don't think it will be debilitating for me if I get COVID (i.e. I think my immune system can get the job done), there isn't long term data to access the vaccine safety or effectiveness and I can't sue the manufacturer.
 
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Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
Gladys' quasi lockdown will end up costing her citizens & Australian taxpayers so much more than if she'd locked down early & simimilarly to other states but she's so stuborn she refuses to see where it's going wrong. The NSW public will be getting restless soon enough. They'll be looking elsewhere with envy.

Its probably time to start comparing the numbers in the 2020 wave in VIC v the 2021 wave in NSW.

NSW total cases since 25/1/20 is 9,360 (3,632 at day 47 of this wave so far).
VIC total cases since 25/1/20 is 20,955 (VIC was at 6,399 at day 47 of the 2020 wave).

NSW will overtake VIC's total numbers in 58 days if they average 200 per day (77 days if they averaged 150 cases per day). VIC’s outbreak went on for 129 days. I don’t think its an overstatement to suggest NSW’s outbreak will last longer than VIC’s the way things are going. VIC reached its peak figure on day 57 (700 cases). I can’t see NSW peaking for a while yet.
 

RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,102
6,786
No I am not against vaccinations as a principle. My personal belief is they make a lot of sense for managing the risk of debilitating illness but otherwise for illnesses that your immune system should be able to handle I'm not inclined to use them (Flu vaccinations for example). I think it's important to have long term data to access long term effects of taking vaccines and I also don't like when vaccine producers are given immunity from libel. I don't feel comfortable taking the COVID vaccines on offer for the time being given the combination that I don't think it will be debilitating for me if I get COVID (i.e. I think my immune system can get the job done), there isn't long term data to access the vaccine safety or effectiveness and I can't sue the manufacturer.

Gia how do you get to conclusion your immune system can handle COVID? Is there data out there to show this and/or no long term effects for you? Genuinely curious. How do you hold that desire for knowledge congruent that with wanting long term science on the vaccine?

I would get that since risk of death for co-morbidities is higher then the risk for those without has to be lower.

Do you factor in the social good and leadership aspect into your decision making?

What would change your mind?
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
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I’m also for a vax lotto incentive too at same time and maybe using the non vaxxers to pay for this would be even sweeter IMO.


I seriously reckon they should hand out a 2 cent badge saying 'vaccinated' after you get a shot.

A bit like wearing your Richmond Members cap,

a little token that tells the world,

you're smart, civic-minded, and on the winning team.
 
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Giardiasis

Tiger Legend
Apr 20, 2009
6,906
1,314
Brisbane
Gia how do you get to conclusion your immune system can handle COVID? Is there data out there to show this and/or no long term effects for you? Genuinely curious. How do you hold that desire for knowledge congruent that with wanting long term science on the vaccine?

I would get that since risk of death for co-morbidities is higher then the risk for those without has to be lower.

Do you factor in the social good and leadership aspect into your decision making?

What would change your mind?
From the data I have seen it appears that people in my age bracket are something above 99% likely to recover if they contract COVID. The case fatality rate for Australian males under 59 is 0.1% (https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/covid-19-mortality-0), I daresay it would be even less for ages under 40 where I sit.

I hold the long term data on the vaccine as important as I follow the principle of "do no harm" first. No point launching into a solution if A, there is no problem (I mean for me personally) or B if the solution won't help and may in fact harm.

I think people attributing taking a COVID vaccine as doing good for others is too early to tell, as they might in fact be causing more harm depending on what effect the vaccine has long term.

I'll likely end up being forced to take a COVID vaccine. I anticipate there will be stick type motivations implemented that will force my hand (sort of like how I pay taxes but if I had a choice I wouldn't).
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Legend
Aug 20, 2005
5,102
6,786
From the data I have seen it appears that people in my age bracket are something above 99% likely to recover if they contract COVID. The case fatality rate for Australian males under 59 is 0.1% (https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/covid-19-mortality-0)

I hold the long term data on the vaccine as important as I follow the principle of "do no harm" first. No point launching into a solution if A, there is no problem or B if the solution won't help and may in fact harm.

I think people attributing taking a vaccine as doing good for others is too early to tell, as they might in fact be causing more harm depending on what effect the vaccine has long term.

I'll likely end up being forced to take a COVID vaccine. I anticipate there will be stick type motivations implemented that will force my hand (sort of like how I pay taxes but if I had a choice I wouldn't).
Thanks for your logic. Appreciate you taking time to write it out especially when the overwhelming sentiment here is pro vax.

It doesn’t make sense to me how you draw a conclusion it is too early to tell when you look at data in other countries of covid impacts on vax and unvax. It’s a massive DO Harm strategy IMO but expecting we will have to agree to disagree. You are massively overweighting a potential unknown negative vs known massive short term positives. The long term negative would have to be truly horrific.

if the u40 death rate was 25% and relied on over 40s vaccinating to prevent a 0.1% what would that mean to you?
 
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Jul 26, 2004
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Doherty Institute modelling released today by the Feds shows 80% vaccination rates are needed for lockdowns to cease in Australia.

Get vaccinated otherwise you're the reason we're not having 'freedoms'.
 
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Ian4

BIN MAN!
May 6, 2004
22,210
4,747
Melbourne
Doherty Institute modelling released today by the Feds shows 80% vaccination rates are needed for lockdowns to cease in Australia.

Get vaccinated otherwise you're the reason we're not having 'freedoms'.

Call me a cynic, but I don't believe we will ever reach 80%. There are too many nuffs out there that won’t get it. I have a friend who I used to go to bushdoofs and music festivals back in the day and used to take all sorts of stuff… She won’t get the COVID vaccine because she thinks its unsafe. I swear society has dumbed down massively over the past 8-10 years.
 
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Jul 26, 2004
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Call me a cynic, but I don't believe we will ever reach 80%. There are too many nuffs out there that won’t get it. I have a friend who I used to go to bushdoofs and music festivals back in the day and used to take all sorts of stuff… She won’t get the COVID vaccine because she thinks its unsafe. I swear society has dumbed down massively over the past 8-10 years.
You may be right but at some point they're going to open up. When that happens this virus won't care what you think & Darwin theory will do the rest.
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

Tiger Legend
Jun 4, 2006
33,186
11,546
Melbourne
Gladys targeting 6m jabs by end of August.

Needs 75K per day.

Averaging 25K a day over the past week.

People shitcanned Gale for 3-0-75, but this is truly an impossible goal without incentives.

Edit: disregard, appears to be something wrong with this table - last two columns not in sync.

NSWvaccinations.jpg
 
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Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
17,823
15,567
Call me a cynic, but I don't believe we will ever reach 80%. There are too many nuffs out there that won’t get it. I have a friend who I used to go to bushdoofs and music festivals back in the day and used to take all sorts of stuff… She won’t get the COVID vaccine because she thinks its unsafe. I swear society has dumbed down massively over the past 8-10 years.
I assume you pointed out the complete idiocy, lunacy and stupidity of her stance? That she was happy to partake in substances that were manufactured without any oversight and purely for the profit of a scumbag? That most of the time she wouldn't know what was in it?

Yet a vaccine thoroughly tested and approved by the TGA is unsafe for her to take? Bizarre.

But yes the dumbing down of society is very very true. As Selina Meyer (Veep) once put it:

"People? I've met a lot of people! And let me tell you; most of them are *smile* idiots!" Or words to that effect :mhihi :mhihi

It may be a TV show but it's funny because it's true.
 
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Ridley

Tiger Legend
Jul 21, 2003
17,823
15,567
You may be right but at some point they're going to open up. When that happens this virus won't care what you think & Darwin theory will do the rest.
Yep. We will somehow need to be able to protect those that can not take a vaccine for a genuine medical reason. But anyone who refuses due to ignorance, stupidity or selfishness can take their chances. We can't be held to ransom by morons.
 
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taztiger4

Shovelheads- Keeping hipsters off Harley's
Jul 13, 2005
7,846
6,503
Richmond Victoria
I assume you pointed out the complete idiocy, lunacy and stupidity of her stance? That she was happy to partake in substances that were manufactured without any oversight and purely for the profit of a scumbag? That most of the time she wouldn't know what was in it?

Yet a vaccine thoroughly tested and approved by the TGA is unsafe for her to take? Bizarre.

But yes the dumbing down of society is very very true. As Selina Meyer (Veep) once put it:

"People? I've met a lot of people! And let me tell you; most of them are *smile* idiots!" Or words to that effect :mhihi :mhihi

It may be a TV show but it's funny because it's true.
A bit off topic, but relates to the dumbing down of society, I'm into my old Harley's & pommie bikes & hence has stuck with me.

30 years ago, your workshop manual instructed you how to lap in valves & perform static timing.

The workshop manuals of today advise against drinking the contents of the battery
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,515
26,002
Morrison has promoted Frewen to General it seems?

Maybe this is Chinas big play?

make a virus out of pangolins, spread it across the world in Christmas crackers, then, we invade while all the Lt. Generals are doing press conferences with stethoscopes around their necks?
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Legend
Dec 11, 2017
10,659
18,177
Melbourne
Gladys targeting 6m jabs by end of August.

Needs 75K per day.

Averaging 25K a day over the past week.

People shitcanned Gale for 3-0-75, but this is truly an impossible goal without incentives.

Edit: disregard, appears to be something wrong with this table - last two columns not in sync.

View attachment 12969

Maybe the doses administered are just the State Run vax centres, I've seen things like this in a few places and it would be good to have one source of truth, but it seems we don't get that. Looks like about 50k a day if we look at the last column so 6m is going to take forever.

The vaccines won't get them out of the current situation though as it takes time to have an impact.

Let's hope the vaccinations ramp up.

DS
 
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mrposhman

Tiger Legend
Oct 6, 2013
18,041
21,607
Maybe the doses administered are just the State Run vax centres, I've seen things like this in a few places and it would be good to have one source of truth, but it seems we don't get that. Looks like about 50k a day if we look at the last column so 6m is going to take forever.

The vaccines won't get them out of the current situation though as it takes time to have an impact.

Let's hope the vaccinations ramp up.

DS


They need to get back upto around 75k per day in order to hit 6m. I'm not sure if thats possible, haven't looked to see what the splits per day are for 1st or 2nd doses as this will impact it, due to the time between 1st and 2nd doses.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
3,743
1,764
Meanwhile, in Japan.......

I love sport as much as the next person. But not sure the Olympics being held in Japan right now, is the greatest look for the IOC.


Japan on track to hit 15,000 cases per day by the end of the Olympics
By Eryk Bagshaw
Aug. 3 (Sydney Morning Herald) -- Tokyo: Japan is on track to reach 15,000 coronavirus cases per day by the end of the Olympics as health officials warn the situation is dire and the county's top medical union says the Games could lead to further deaths.
Tokyo is now building 16 vaccination hubs, including some underground, capable of administering 4000 doses per day, but infections have continued to almost double over the past week.
The general secretary of the Japan Federation of Medical Workers' Union, Susumu Morita, said despite the government securing more hospital beds, the limit of Japan's medical capacity had already been reached because there were not enough doctors and nurses to treat patients.
"Considering the explosive increase in the number of people with COVID-19 and the fact the disease is being replaced by a mutated strain that is prone to sudden changes, it is certain that the number of serious cases will soon surpass that of the third wave," he told the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
"We believe that there is a high risk that the number of cases will reach more than 5000 a day in Tokyo and more than 15,000 nationwide by the time the Olympics close this weekend."
Toyokezai modelling overseen by Professor Hiroshi Nishiura at the University of Hokkaido shows that number could be reached well before the closing ceremony on Sunday. The country added 12,329 cases on Saturday, up from 10,728 the day before. The number of untraceable cases in Tokyo is also surging, up by 224 per cent on Monday to account for more than half of all cases.
The spread is now moving beyond Tokyo, with the capital recording 3058 cases on Monday, down from a record 4058 on Sunday.
"The number is still over 3000," said Tokyo Bureau of Social Welfare and Public Health spokesman Masaya Nishikawa. "The situation is still dire. Vaccines will be a game-changer but until we have extensive vaccine rollout it is important to thoroughly continue basic [anti] transmission measures."
Japanese broadcaster TBS news reported on Monday that one COVID-19 patient in his 50s was taken by ambulance to 100 hospitals but was refused admission because they were unprepared. More than eight hours later he was treated at a hospital 50 kilometres away.
Tokyo has been unable to get the outbreak under control during the Olympics and cases have now spread to four other prefectures, which were put into a state of emergency on Friday. The combination of the Olympics, voluntary coronavirus enforcement measures and a Japanese public weary of ongoing restrictions has created pandemic fatigue that policymakers have struggled to turn around.
The Olympic bubble added another 17 cases on Monday, taking the total to 276 infections for athletes, officials and media involved in the event.
As the Olympics enter their final stretch, Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga's government faces an election in the shadow of the Games. The Liberal Democratic Party had hoped the spectacle would turn around declining approval ratings that are already in their 30s.
Kyodo News reported on Sunday that former LDP chief cabinet secretary Tateo Kawamura told a party meeting that the success of Japanese Olympic athletes, who have won a record 17 gold medals, would help the government at the October poll.
"It will be a great help for us that Japanese athletes are doing their best at the Olympics," the powerbroker said. "The number of coronavirus infections would have increased even if we had not had the Olympics."
But Morita, who represents the country's doctors and nurses, said the Olympics would leave a dark legacy.
"It will trigger an outbreak, dissuade the public from paying attention to the spread of infectious diseases, and even indirectly lead to the loss of lives that could have been saved," he said.
"The burden on medical personnel working in Tokyo has already reached its limit."
Relatively low testing rates are also making getting an accurate read on the true spread of the disease challenging.
Tokyo recorded only 10,877 tests on Monday for its 3058 cases. The same day Sydney processed 117,009 tests in a city with only a third of the population pf Tokyo and seven per cent of the cases.
Tokyo's test positivity ratio has climbed to nearly 20 per cent from 10 per cent at the start of the Games.
Never miss a medal or great sporting moment with our Olympic update emailed daily. Sign up for our Sport newsletter here.

Click here to see the story as it appeared on Sydney Morning Herald web site.

The Sydney Morning Herald
Copyright © (2021) Fairfax Media Publications Pty Limited. www.smh.com.au. Not available for re-distribution.

-0- Aug/03/2021 02:47 GMT
 
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MD Jazz

Don't understand football? Talk to the hand.
Feb 3, 2017
13,487
13,941
No matter where you look in the world it is indisputable that vaccinated people become less ill and die less from Covid.
That isn't the real issue. Are vaccinated people less likely to carry and transmit the virus? If it is a resounding yes then it makes sense for their to be some sort of "forced" vaccination regime. But if all the vaccine does is stop you suffering worse symptoms and you still carry and transmit like others then it should be completely voluntary.

It will definitely reduce the number of people that are "anti-vax".
 

Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
34,720
26,816
Tel Aviv
You may be right but at some point they're going to open up. When that happens this virus won't care what you think & Darwin theory will do the rest.
That’s right. And as politicians and epidemiologists in the US are saying, there is not going to be this infinite patience with the non vaxxers, nor continuing measures such as lockdowns and various restrictions to protect this particular group of people. We have to learn to live with the virus. And the safest way is through vaccination.

To that end, the worry in the US is that the devastating outflows of the virus will largely end up associating itself with these flawed non vaccine thinkers - of which there is enough of to still cause a lot of death and sickness.

Just the other day I was reading how in California the affluent Santa Monica area of LA, which had largely got through the pre vaccine period a lot better than the rest of California, now had its hospitals completely overrun with COVID patients despite a high vaccination rate in the area. The reason being, there was still enough flawed non vaccine thinkers catching and getting sick with the virus as life opened back up to everyone that they were now turning up in their cohort droves on the steps of their hospitals. These non vaxxers are the overwhelming ones dying, getting sick, and clogging up the system. Needless to say health workers etc are extremely frustrated and angry as their resources are re directed away from other patients needing help eg cancer patients, accident victims and on and on.

You extrapolate that out into lower socioeconomic areas of the US and where there’s a greater propensity for this flawed non vaccine thinking - often driven by radical Republicans, and various fringe elements - and there’s a real worry in the US that a lot more misery is still to come.

Knowing Americans though they’ll take the “more fool you” approach, you were given an opportunity, and these people will be left to fend for themselves. Seems like it’s already happening in some states.
 
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eZyT

Tiger Legend
Jun 28, 2019
21,515
26,002
That’s right. And as politicians and epidemiologists in the US are saying, there is not going to be this infinite patience with the non vaxxers,

you reckon they'll make a reality TV show called something like

'Anti-vaxxer death beds'?

with the Qanon dude with the horned helmet on the ad,

trying to get a enough breath to say enough

to go out a winner?