Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Coronavirus

vinpaul

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 26, 2009
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None of that is a silver bullet now however and it needs to be remembered that to be treated with new drugs for COVID most probably means that person is in hospital taking up a hospital bed.
What about early treatment meds that can be given early to avoid hospitalisation ? Do you know whether that happens in Australia ?
 

Sintiger

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Aug 11, 2010
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What about early treatment meds that can be given early to avoid hospitalisation ? Do you know whether that happens in Australia ?
I’m not close enough to know any has been approved or not so far but I do know that some are in clinical trials in hospitals which requires the patient consent and support of the drug company. This is a pretty normal process for new drugs and the companies sponsor them as they use the outcomes to apply for TGA approval and approval in other countries.
There are drugs that have been used for other conditions certainly being used in the treatment of COVID. For instance some asthma drugs.
 

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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As do many things, but right now it's unvaccinated people contracting COVID that is putting our healthcare system at risk. Something that can be easily solved if people get vaccinated. Really, that should be the only message that people are focused on right now.

Exactly. And obese people will not magically become non-obese even in the next 6 months. The known comorbidities that impact severely on Covid patients are - kidney disease, respiratory disease, heart disease, cancer and hypertension/diabetes. Many of these are exacerbated by obesity but not always.


"Hypertension was the most common comorbidity in COVID-19 patients, followed by obesity and diabetes. But, despite having high prevalence, obesity was not associated with mortality in COVID-19 patients."

The line that lifestyle choice is the simplistic key comorbidity for Covid patients is frankly, BS, and one that's typically run by antivax/antimaskers. It's another way to say vax/masking is personal choice, and if you get sick it's because it's your fault.
 
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AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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yes it is. My comments are more generic about the number of COVID treatments that are being trialled all over the world. For there to be general use there needs to be TGA approval, which requires an application and then as you rightly say there has to be a distribution chain.
Medicare also needs to register the drugs under the PBS which always takes time

Understood Sin... it's a long research, approval and manufacturing/distribution chain. One of the good outcomes of all this is that where is the political will, then these processes can be made much faster than they used to be, even if the antivax crew will *smile* and moan about "experimental gene-altering vaccines" and "no long term data".
 

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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It would probably be useful for a study to show what co-morbidities seem to be present in those that die of Covid. If the % of people dying with co-morbidities have obesity as 1 of their co-morbidities then maybe it may have an impact in pushing more people towards a more healthy lifestyle.
ask and ye shall receive

 
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AngryAnt

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Btw l think it’s pretty well known that diet and lifestyle choices have a significant impact on the co-morbidities you mention eg. obesity and heart disease etc.

Yep, and the pandemic will be over by the time you have a government with the political will to actually regulate fast food/diet, and that won't happen anyway. You have a whole advertising industry, a food culture and an economic system of food production that pushes people towards easy food choices. You have economies of scale that mean it is often cheaper and certainly easier for someone to buy fast food than to prepare a healthy meal. Public education is nice but will have a minimal impact. Gym membership subsidy? Nope. As Baloo said remember Norm? Changing culture is hard.

Since this is about Corona, let's focus on what we can do now - interventions that will have an immediate impact, save lives, including those who have comorbidities that are not their fault. And even if it is their fault, let's try to save them too - by getting vaxxed, wearing masks, socially distancing, and coming up with treatments that help people RIGHT NOW.
 
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Sintiger

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Aug 11, 2010
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Understood Sin... it's a long research, approval and manufacturing/distribution chain. One of the good outcomes of all this is that where is the political will, then these processes can be made much faster than they used to be, even if the antivax crew will *smile* and moan about "experimental gene-altering vaccines" and "no long term data".
it is a bi-product of this pandemic hopefully. The process of clinical trials, TGA registration and then PBS listing has been far too long in Australia and elsewhere as well.
Part of it is many jurisdictions around the world not accepting clinical trial data from other countries and part of it is just mind numbing bureaucracy.
Cancer drugs is a good example, it just takes too long and people die waiting for drugs to be declared safe when they are going to die without them. I've never quite understood it.
 
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vinpaul

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Apr 26, 2009
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‘...According to research from the Centre for Disease Control, people living with overweight and obesity are at greater risk of severe COVID-19 complications. They are more likely to be admitted to a hospital for COVID-19 related pneumonia at a younger age, require mechanical assisted ventilation, and access intensive care units (ICUs) than healthy weight patients. Individuals with obesity are also twice as likely to die from COVID-19 than individuals with a healthy weight...’
 

MD Jazz

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Feb 3, 2017
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It would probably be useful for a study to show what co-morbidities seem to be present in those that die of Covid. If the % of people dying with co-morbidities have obesity as 1 of their co-morbidities then maybe it may have an impact in pushing more people towards a more healthy lifestyle.
People already know that being fat isn't good for you. But, (a bit like anti-vaxxers), many don't like being told what to do - ie they shouldn't eat maccas and guzzle coke.
 

Baloo

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Nov 8, 2005
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‘...According to research from the Centre for Disease Control, people living with overweight and obesity are at greater risk of severe COVID-19 complications. They are more likely to be admitted to a hospital for COVID-19 related pneumonia at a younger age, require mechanical assisted ventilation, and access intensive care units (ICUs) than healthy weight patients. Individuals with obesity are also twice as likely to die from COVID-19 than individuals with a healthy weight...’
No one is disputing that. But going from obese to healthy is a lot slower, longer, harder, less chance of success than getting vaccinated. I reckon there's data to say that Vaccinated Obese people are a lot less likely to die from Covid than unvaccinated obese people

Normal logic would be to to tackle the quickest and most effective route first, then look at the next areas to tackle.
 
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vinpaul

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Apr 26, 2009
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No one is disputing that. But going from obese to healthy is a lot slower, longer, harder, less chance of success than getting vaccinated. I reckon there's data to say that Vaccinated Obese people are a lot less likely to die from Covid than unvaccinated obese people

Normal logic would be to to tackle the quickest and most effective route first, then look at the next areas to tackle.
Well we’ve been going two years so far with no end date on the horizon. No reason why you can’t run a multi faceted response that includes a focus on weight loss via diet and exercise.
 

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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Well we’ve been going two years so far with no end date on the horizon. No reason why you can’t run a multi faceted response that includes a focus on weight loss via diet and exercise.

And the actual research shows that obesity is an indirect factor in comorbidity, not a direct one. So far you've proposed leaders saying "lose weight and exercise", public education and subsidised gym memberships to deal with an indirect comorbidity that will take months or years to have an impact, if it does have an impact.

The message right now has to be get vaccinated, mask up, socially distance. Focus on saving lives now, including those who are vulnerable now.
 

Baloo

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Well we’ve been going two years so far with no end date on the horizon. No reason why you can’t run a multi faceted response that includes a focus on weight loss via diet and exercise.

Focus your funds and efforts where you will get the best results. As stated before, I bet the stats would say that Vaccinated Obese as far less likely than Unvaccinated Obese to require ICU / die due to COVID. Focus on that because a single focused message to pull the country out of this mess is what's needed.
 

vinpaul

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Apr 26, 2009
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And the actual research shows that obesity is an indirect factor in comorbidity, not a direct one. So far you've proposed leaders saying "lose weight and exercise", public education and subsidised gym memberships to deal with an indirect comorbidity that will take months or years to have an impact, if it does have an impact.

The message right now has to be get vaccinated, mask up, socially distance. Focus on saving lives now, including those who are vulnerable now.
I think the impact of obesity is greater than how you make it sound....’if it does have an impact..’, please...
 

vinpaul

Tiger Matchwinner
Apr 26, 2009
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Focus on that because a single focused message to pull the country out of this mess is what's needed.
I actually think that people are smart enough to accept a nuanced multi faceted approach, in fact l personally expect it should happen instead of hearing the same message every single day. I understand that PR departments will advise that we have to push one thing all the time but l think that many are ready for more eg. l want to know more about earty treatments, what meds are currently used and what is on the horizon, what changes to policy are quickly being made based on the different risk profile of omicron etc
 

AngryAnt

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Nov 25, 2004
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I think the impact of obesity is greater than how you make it sound....’if it does have an impact..’, please...

I literally showed you a research study from Griffith Uni with actual data and conclusions. And I'm talking about the impact of the interventions you suggest - the impact of ScoMo saying lose weight, a public education campaign and subsidised gym memberships if introduced tomorrow will have no impact on infections, hospitalisations, ICU rates and deaths. Absolutely zero.
 

Baloo

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Nov 8, 2005
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I actually think that people are smart enough to accept a nuanced multi faceted approach, in fact l personally expect it should happen instead of hearing the same message every single day. I understand that PR departments will advise that we have to push one thing all the time but l think that many are ready for more eg. l want to know more about earty treatments, what meds are currently used and what is on the horizon, what changes to policy are quickly being made based on the different risk profile of omicron etc


You say the Vaccine campaign has been going for 2 years with no end in sight. BTW, it's not 2 years. Scotty got his Pfizer shot in Feb last year so it's been less than 12 months and we have a vaccination rate in the 90's.

Norm and "Life. Be in it", the start of the healthy lifestyle push, is 47 years old, and the rates of obesity are getting worse.

Doesn't take a Brain Scientist to see which approach has more chance of success.
 
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