Cotchin and Riewoldt

[Carter]

Champions both. And I don’t have the answers.

But

1) will they be first team by Round 20?

2) can we make finals without them?

3) if so, should we be blooding around Round 6-7, when the heat has gone off the general pace of the game a little?

The critical names to this discussion are:

Ryan, Bauer, Cumberland, Clarke, Sonsie, Banks, Brown, Gibcus

 

[The Big Richo]

I reckon there's more chance of PRE starting a Go Fund Me to help with the steel costs of the Geelong grandstand than there is of Hardwick leaving either of those guys out of the team.

 

[Carter]

Then season 2023 has the potential to be wasted both in terms of premiership success and games into talented kids?

Is that what you’re saying TBR?

 

[BrisTiger24]

Having Ryan in the team will help Jack. Looking at the scum defence, you will have Moore on Lynch, Frampton on Ryan and that leaves Maynard to go to Jack. Jack will be too tall and smart for Maynard. Being the third forward should free Jack up.

On Cotch, no signs of him slowing up yet IMO. Someone made the point that if Hopper doesnt get up, we have an able replacement in Trent Cotchin. Which is a great point. We don't need to call on Dow or Sonsie to come in and perform in the middle. We have a Brownlow medallist combative beast that can go into the middle which is another great outcome from bringing in Taranto and Hopper.

 

[Ian4]

i don’t understand why people are already starting to write their obituaries after 2 rounds. Are you falling for the media bull5hit? They have both played their roles for mine. And if the kids put pressure on senior players to keep their spots, isn’t that a good thing? Ryan has already successfully achieved this.

 

[TigerFurious]

Bemuses me that so many people think playing the kids is some sort of panacea to all our woes, real or otherwise.

The brutal reality is that most kids won’t make it and it’s not because they were denied opportunities, or had their rightful spots taken by greedy old-timers who went on three season too long. It’s because most kids, even the ones listed above are just not good enough and never will be. Yet plenty of people want to replace veterans who admittedly are on the decline but still playing better football at AFL level than most are at VFL with kids who couldn’t even get 20 touches against pretty ordinary opposition.

Not to mention that pushing out veterans creates a pretty big experience vacuum that is not easily filled. Hawks are experiencing that right now, even Geelong to a lesser extent without Selwood. GCS entire existence is one big experience vacuum.

If the kids are good enough they’ll get their chance regardless of whether the likes of Cotchin and Riewoldt are playing or not. But the brutal reality is, most of the kids are just not good enough.

 

[Carter]

i don’t understand why people are already starting to write their obituaries after 2 rounds. Are you falling for the media bull5hit? They have both played their roles for mine. And if the kids put pressure on senior players to keep their spots, isn’t that a good thing? Ryan has already successfully achieved this.

I don’t have concrete answers but I wouldn’t be shocked if we saw a mid-season retirement at least from Riewoldt, sooner than we might think.

I also agree with TBR that Hardwick is old school with this issue and won’t be dropping them. Retirement might be the best outcome for all.

And yes, I watched Jack closely rounds 1 and 2. He can’t apply pressure at a time of year when he should be covering the ground well.

 

[Carter]

Bemuses me that so many people think playing the kids is some sort of panacea to all our woes, real or otherwise.

The brutal reality is that most kids won’t make it and it’s not because they were denied opportunities, or had their rightful spots taken by greedy old-timers who went on three season too long. It’s because most kids, even the ones listed above are just not good enough and never will be. Yet plenty of people want to replace veterans who admittedly are on the decline but still playing better football at AFL level than most are at VFL with kids who couldn’t even get 20 touches against pretty ordinary opposition.

Not to mention that pushing out veterans creates a pretty big experience vacuum that is not easily filled. Hawks are experiencing that right now, even Geelong to a lesser extent without Selwood. GCS entire existence is one big experience vacuum.

If the kids are good enough they’ll get their chance regardless of whether the likes of Cotchin and Riewoldt are playing or not. But the brutal reality is, most of the kids are just not good enough.

The reason this topic is pertinent is because our kids are alright.

 

[shawry]

What exactly have these blokes done wrong so far this year? Both seem to be playing their roles and doing well with them?
I am never against the old adage of young blokes having to earn their spots and forcibly remove other players from their spots through having form over multiple weeks in a row and basically making themselves impossible not to pick.

 

[BrisTiger24]

One of the highlights of the weekend was to see Ryan, Bradtke and Bauer play well. One or two of these boys will be required to partner up with Lynch from next year.

 

[French Tiger]

Not sure why after round 6 or 7 we would say thanks but time to start blooding youngsters. What would be the point of them signing on to play again this year ?

If their form warrants it then they play no matter what round it is.

Whilst both haven't been best on ground they are certainly are contributing.

 

[The Big Richo]

Then season 2023 has the potential to be wasted both in terms of premiership success and games into talented kids?

Is that what you’re saying TBR?

Yeah absolutely it could be. That's been on the cards since we went the way we did in the trade period though.

Whether or not we are on the right track will be determined by the results. We have traded like a contender so we need at least 2 top four looks in the next 3 seasons to justify it.

I'm still in the worried but hopeful camp, my feeling is we should have addressed some current issues in other ways like @bullus_hit suggested with Mitchell and Grundy and still maintained our picks to continue to build a list.

If it turns out that we aren't in a position to contend and won't be next year either, then we've absolutely wasted a year and the couple more it will take to get back on track.

 

[Leysy Days]

One of the highlights of the weekend was to see Ryan, Bradtke and Bauer play well. One or two of these boys will be required to partner up with Lynch from next year.

You mean Lynch is gunna be needed to partner Samson BT?

 

[Leysy Days]

On the issue at hand. Dimma will rest Jack and Chimp for most interstate trips plus the odd home game.

Combine that with natural injury attrition and the kids will get opportunity.

It's important they do (and will) as all premiership teams have talent come through and perform that they weren't expecting.

 

[toothless]

Jack will be too tall and smart for Maynard. Being the third forward should free Jack up.

Maynard thrashed Jack last time.

 

[BrisTiger24]

You mean Lynch is gunna be needed to partner Samson BT?

That would be the plan......in 2025!

 

[tigertime2]

Cotchin is not replaceable on current form.
10mins a quarter off the bench is all we need from him.

 

[BrisTiger24]

Maynard thrashed Jack last time.

Still kicked 2, Lynch kicked 6. Plus they had to contend with Howe getting in the way. Maynard is a good, dour and uncompromising defender but Jack should have the footy smarts

 

[eZyT]

If, by some bizarre club anomoly,

we dont let these immortals

Transition out of the game on their own terms,

Whatever they may be,

I'll cancel my membership.

Both are comfortably top 10 players presently.

I hope they either

1. Retire on the premiership podium this year,

Or

2. Play in 2024

If i wanted to barrack for a *smile* club with no feel for culture, who has no qualms treating club greats with astounding disrespect,

Id barrack for hawthorn.

If you said to me you can

A) beat geelong in this years premiership by 20 goals, but JR and Cotchy are disenfranchised or

B) lose to geelong in the GF with cotchy and Jr's heart pumping black and yellow,

I chose B without hesitation.

 

[Tigers of Old]

In Dimma we trust.