Cricket

[pahoffm]

I have a bit to do with junior cricket at my club, the mighty Tracy Village up here in Darwin. 20/20 cricket has been about the senior grade for a couple of years now, but a directive from ca has instructed the league to incorporate 20/20 games for our under 15 and 17 leagues this year as well. They normally only play 40 over games and 80 over games for finals. How can 20/20 teach the youth of how to play cricket properly? We have a big problem already with the senior guys only consentrating on blasting the ball out of the nets at practice, this will only compound the problem of everyone wanting to be a one-day star to the detriment of test cricket IMO.

And that my friend is destroying the extended form of cricket in Australia.

 

[Leysy Days]

For me, the major factor affecting National cricket is that:
1. Batsmen don't get enough practise playing the type of games that develop good stroke-play and develop good decision-making, i.e, when to play v when to leave, and hitting the ball in the air too often.
And having sufficient batting time to experience truly high scores, rather than retiring at 45no or 56no, or whatever.

2. Bowlers are being developed to contain batsmen, rather than get them out. There are limits to the number of overs bowlers can bowl so bowlers aren't getting the opportunities to learn and experience taking 5+ wickets in an innings.

3. Fieldsmen are being placed in containment fields, which means that there is a growing dearth of genuinely good slip fieldsmen. Like anything else, you learn about taking slips catches by gaining practise in matches.

These are the three crucial areas.

Yes they are. The batting & bowling especially hold true. It takes a lot of time & effort to build those parts that you outline.

Sadly as Snaps mentioned. CA have their eyes firmly planted towards the opposite spectrum.

 

[Scoop]

Navy has no issue playing dads army in one day games at the moment with a World Cup 2 months away. Its not the time for a rebuild.

The question is, are they the best. The bowling does look a risk with a lot of out & out pacemen named. Typically in the sub-continent taking the pace off the ball helps win games. No issue with Brett Lee, has been very good this year at domestic one day level. The others all have question marks. Tait's only bowled 8 rusty overs in two 20/20 games this season whilst Siddle has always struggled in one-day games at any level. Nannes is one navy would have included ahead of both those.

The spin selection is interesting. Doherty has been the best bowler of any desciption on the limited overs domestic scene for years & fully deserves his chance. Hopes would be another that would be handy over there but he seems on the outer.

Christian also would definately get a game ahead of Smith in navy's team as well. He could be a game breaker coming in at No 7 on those small grounds.

No way to the bit in bold.

Clarke at 4 or Hodge at 4?
Smith at 7 or Christian at 7?
Tait or someone who has bowled more then 8 overs?

It's a shocking side. If you chuck Pointing back in it gets worse.

Dad's army indeed.

 

[snaps truly]

No way to the bit in bold.

Clarke at 4 or Hodge at 4?
Smith at 7 or Christian at 7?
Tait or someone who has bowled more then 8 overs?

It's a shocking side. If you chuck Pointing back in it gets worse.

Dad's army indeed.

Interested to see your preferred lineup scoop

 

[Leysy Days]

Cheers. Reeally makes no sense to me to flick Klinger and recruit Rogers.

Fair enough. That Klinger has kicked on could be seen as an indictment on our coaching. If he leaves first, then why get an aging Rogers (regardless of his state of happiness in WA) to fill the breach; promote the better performed district performers at least giving them chances. Perhaps the Vics are too trophy orientated.

They both started in their new states the same year - 08/09. So timelines do match your ascertion.

But to be fair Klinger did have chances over the years in Vic. Whether he wasnt given confidence by the coaching staff who knows. Whether he kicked on at SA because of natural maturity who knows.

Navy thinks Michael Hill makes a better case for your point JB.

He was captain of the Australian under 19 team that played the world cup early 2008.

In his side were the likes of Phil Hughes, Steve Smith, James Faulkner, Josh Hazlewood & James Pattinson. That he was chosen as captain ahead of those talented guys speaks volumes for his maturity & ability.

Everyone of those players made their first class debut that year (2008). Except the captain who was made to wait until 2010.

Now 3 of them have already represented Australia. All are definately ahead of Hill (with the possible exception of Pattinson who has had injury). Now surely if you have the Australian under 19 captain who is a top order batsman & an already extremely experienced batting lineup at your disposal you then dont go & recruit a 30 y.o Western Australian if one of your main goals is to develop players to represent your country.

Hopefully now that Hill has got into the Vic side he can push on.

 

[spook]

Blizzard is the one who got a raw deal. He should have been playing for Victoria in all forms of the game.

 

[snaps truly]

Blizzard is the one who got a raw deal. He should have been playing for Victoria in all forms of the game.

I didn't realise he was fron Victoria

 

[spook]

Sure is. Hit the ball out of the WACA in making 89 off 38 balls in a T20 game a few years back, but never got much of a run in the whites. Definitely played one Shield game for Victoria (made 30), not sure if he got another.

 

[Leysy Days]

9 first class games - 492 runs @ 41 spooker.

 

[snaps truly]

9 first class games - 492 runs @ 41 spooker.

Thats a sound start to a career, wonder what went wrong or was it a case of no opportunity?

 

[spook]

9 first class games - 492 runs @ 41 spooker.

Yeah, most of those would be for SA I'd suggest.

Thats a sound start to a career, wonder what went wrong or was it a case of no opportunity?

Vic selectors get too clever about having 'specialists' for each form of the game (eg. when Crossthwaite was the pyjama keeper and Wade in the whites - didn't make sense on any level, not least that Wade's batting and keeping are both easily superior to Crossthwaite's) and pigeon-holed Blizzard as a limited-overs player, as opposed to recognising and promoting a gun talent.

Got to wonder about the Vic selectors. They treated Warren Ayres harshly, never giving him continuity, when after Hodge and Elliott he was clearly the next best batsman in the state. Was still an outstanding district batsman into his 40s.

 

[pahoffm]

I didn't realise he was fron Victoria

Yes Aidan Blizzard is another Richmond Tiger.

He left Victoria to gain a regular spot in a State team.

"Blizz" is a great hitter of the ball, though his style in Victoria was developed towards the limited form of the game.

 

[jb03]

And that my friend is destroying the extended form of cricket in Australia.

Perhaps we should introduce some 8 day games phanto, thay will sort out who can bat and bowl for long periods.

Perhaps the old timers are just going to have accept that cricket is going to head for a shorter form of game and may need to do so to keep the youth interested.

They both started in their new states the same year - 08/09. So timelines do match your ascertion.

But to be fair Klinger did have chances over the years in Vic. Whether he wasnt given confidence by the coaching staff who knows. Whether he kicked on at SA because of natural maturity who knows.

Navy thinks Michael Hill makes a better case for your point JB.

He was captain of the Australian under 19 team that played the world cup early 2008.

In his side were the likes of Phil Hughes, Steve Smith, James Faulkner, Josh Hazlewood & James Pattinson. That he was chosen as captain ahead of those talented guys speaks volumes for his maturity & ability.

Everyone of those players made their first class debut that year (2008). Except the captain who was made to wait until 2010.

Now 3 of them have already represented Australia. All are definately ahead of Hill (with the possible exception of Pattinson who has had injury). Now surely if you have the Australian under 19 captain who is a top order batsman & an already extremely experienced batting lineup at your disposal you then dont go & recruit a 30 y.o Western Australian if one of your main goals is to develop players to represent your country.

Hopefully now that Hill has got into the Vic side he can push on.

Yep always said that Michael Hill got a raw deal from the Vic selectors. It is lucky Hayden doesn't want to play again as the Vics would look at picking him up too.

 

[pahoffm]

Perhaps we should introduce some 8 day games phanto, thay will sort out who can bat and bowl for long periods.  

Perhaps the old timers are just going to have accept that cricket is going to head for a shorter form of game and may need to do so to keep the youth interested.

Interesting points you make there.

1. Four to five days is long enough to accumate a 500 run score and bowl the opposition out twice. Note that English cricket fell into trouble when it dropped the 4th day in their games and went to 3 days. They have since reverted to four day county games.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/countycricket2011/content/match/fixtures.html?country=1;country=27;season=2011;class=4;class=5;class=6

2. Some juniors do prefer the limited game. And they should be allowed to do so. But that doesn't mean that those who have the desire & the talent to play the longer game should be hindered in doing so.
At the moment it is very hard for talented junior batsmen to survive in top-level cricket if they are not big hitters.

3. Maybe the ACB needs to be more selective in scheduling Test Match series and schedule the itineraries properly. Personally, Test cricket seemed better when there was less of it.

This actually leads to the opportunity.

Already at local level, there is at least one winter cricket association providing cricketers who have no interest in playing football the opportunity to play cricket.

Some years ago, we saw what I believe was a successful one or two-off 1-Day games between Australia v Pakistan played at the now Etihad Stadium. Yet we haven't seen another game since. Maybe it was a cost v revenue thing that stopped it.

But there is an opportunity for cricket to start competing with the limited game, especially T20s, during the football season.

If AFL can be played from February, why shouldn't cricket have a go at June/July?

I see this, and overseas tournaments between April and September, as Australian limited-form cricket's great opportunity.

Over the last 11 years we've had plenty of dry winters. This may change but it may not.

 

[23.21.159]

1. Four to five days is long enough to accumate a 500 run score and bowl the opposition out twice. Note that English cricket fell into trouble when it dropped the 4th day in their games and went to 3 days. They have since reverted to four day county games.

When did English cricket drop their fourth day? I could be wrong, but it has always been my impression that county cricket in England was always three days until about 20 years ago when they went to four. Even Tests there were limited to three days before WW2, unless against Australia. Trying to find some detail on this but it's not easy.

 

[pahoffm]

When did English cricket drop their fourth day? I could be wrong, but it has always been my impression that county cricket in England was always three days until about 20 years ago when they went to four. Even Tests there were limited to three days before WW2, unless against Australia. Trying to find some detail on this but it's not easy.

No, you're right about the 3 day county matches. I mis-expressed the difference between Australian It was more that they moved from 3 to 4 days to emulate Australian domestic cricket.

It goes back to the long term changes the English were prepared to make, including appointing the duo of Nasar Hussein & Duncan Fletcher, that saw their Test cricket plight improve.

Yes, Test cricket in England in the early days appear to be 3 day affairs with many Tests drawn.

Of course, in some Tests between Australia V England and Australia v South Africa, these went on for more than 5 days, e.g., the Timeless Test.

I'm reading the Wisden Book of Test cricket and the Australia v England 5th Test of 1928-29 was the first to run for 8 days.

 

[23.21.159]

Let's not forget this 10-day marathon : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62657.html

Fancy chasing 696, getting to 5/654, and calling it a day after 10 days because they had to get the boat home! Imagine it happening today.

I think there is also a funny stat that the author of the book you are reading was born on the day it started (or ended, not sure).

 

[Scoop]

Interested to see your preferred lineup scoop

Haddin
Watson
Hodge
C.White
D.Hussey
M.Hussey
D.Christan
Lee/Tait (play one drop tait down batting order)
Nannes
Doherty
Starc/Hazelwood/Rimmington/Mitch Johnson

Something like that. But our one day young bowlers should be rotated through.

Same with the bats give Steve Smith, Aaron Finch, John Hastings, George Bailey, Shaun Marsh a gig.

Inject some youth. Mix it up.

 

[pahoffm]

Let's not forget this 10-day marathon : http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/62657.html

Fancy chasing 696, getting to 5/654, and calling it a day after 10 days because they had to get the boat home! Imagine it happening today.

Yes, that was the Timeless Test, I think?

I think there is also a funny stat that the author of the book you are reading was born on the day it started (or ended, not sure).

Now that's interesting too.

I believe he has passed away now & that is the reason why the book hasn't been updated since about 1982.

 

[23.21.159]

Died two years ago - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Frindall

I have the originals that Frindall wrote and one or two upgrades that he made. But there is a Volume 4. Just google WISDEN BOOK OF TEST CRICKET and you'll find it somewhere.