CRISIS TIME!! We are worse off than we think | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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CRISIS TIME!! We are worse off than we think

Harry said:
People thinking we will play finals are dreaming.

We are still 5-6 quality mids/flankers, 1-2 quality Key defenders, 1 quality Key forward, and 1 quality backup Ruck away from being a fianals contender. That is about 8-9 quality players - Half a team.

B Newman, ********, Raines
HB Bowden, Polak, Meyer
C Deledio, ********,Tambling
HF Brown, Richardson, ********,
F
R Simmons, ********, Foley

Int Polo, *******, *******, Tuck

Of the list above
- Bowden, Brown and Richardson are A class, match winners. Their time is running out.
- Newman and Simmons are reliable B class players. Good age.
- Deledio and Foley show promise with good skills and decision making. Deledio needs to do more and Foley needs more game time.
- Raines, Polo and Tuck are goers with limited skills and/or decision making ability. Can be replaced. Should look for better options. Can be the second string/fringe players in a good side competing in finals.

I've left out Thursfield and everyone drafted after 2004 as I haven't seen enough of them. Hopefully this group of about 10 can fill about 4-5 of the vacant positions in the next couple of years.

I have added some players in yellow that even though right now it may not look like it but I really believe that these guys will make it. Cogs has a better chance than not based to make it based on his courage and determination imo.
 
Harry said:
People thinking we will play finals are dreaming.

We are still 5-6 quality mids/flankers, 1-2 quality Key defenders, 1 quality Key forward, and 1 quality backup Ruck away from being a fianals contender. That is about 9-10 quality players - Half a team.

B Newman, ********, Raines
HB Bowden, ********, *******
C Deledio, ********, ********
HF Brown, Richardson, ********,
F Pettifer, ********, ********
R Simmons, ********, Foley

Int Polo, *******, *******, Tuck

Of the list above
- Bowden, Brown and Richardson are A class, match winners. Their time is running out.
- Newman and Simmons are reliable B class players. Good age.
- Deledio and Foley show promise with good skills and decision making. Deledio needs to do more and Foley needs more game time.
- Pettifer has good skills and is damaging, but has some weaknesses.
- Raines, Polo and Tuck are goers with limited skills and/or decision making ability. These guys plus Pettifer can be replaced. Should look for better options. Can be the second string/fringe players in a good side competing in finals.

I've left out Thursfield and everyone drafted after 2004 as I haven't seen enough of them. Hopefully this group of about 10 can fill about 4-5 of the vacant positions in the next couple of years.

Great post. If TW gets us to the finals in his first 5 years he is doing well.

The problem is by the time our kids really start coming through in say 3 years time (alah the 1999 bulldogs draft coming through in 2005), it will be a miracle if our only current A graders are at there peak. Bowden & Brown will be 30+ Richo 35+ :o. Hopefully these guys can look after their bodies but its a big if.

That's the problem with trading draft picks for established players and drafting poorly for so many years. TW performed a miracle to get us to ninth last year and the flower sniffers think finals are the next step.

PS I think you missed our Captain in your team a definate B grader (but he is as old as Bowden & Brown).
 
maverick said:
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That's the problem with trading draft picks for established players and drafting poorly for so many years. TW performed a miracle to get us to ninth last year and the flower sniffers think finals are the next step.
These so called flower sniffers are probally the only reason we still are a club of its own identity.
 
Does anyone else think that it is hypocritical of the 'darkside' to bag the club, coach and players for losing, and looking poor when doing it, given that our first 22 is now primarily composed of 3-5 year players (kids)?

Isn't that what they were after in the first place?
 
It's the worrying signs of these players you talk about that is the problem. These 3-4 year players wont take that next step. It will bring us back 10 years trying to fill that 22-26 year old gap.
 
frawleyudud said:
It's the worrying signs of these players you talk about that is the problem. These 3-4 year players wont take that next step. It will bring us back 10 years trying to fill that 22-26 year old gap.

But we should be EXPECTING to lose with young under developed kids playing men. The remarkable thing is that we won 11 games last year by using these self-same kids - perhaps this heightened the darkside's expectations?

Lets wait for the season to unfold before we judge whether they have taken the next step or not. But we should be expecting a team composed mainly of kids to LOSE.
 
Look at Carlton, they surged up the ladder couple years ago, won the NAB cup then went downhill at a rate of knots, we will do the same. Compare young players with teams below us and we do not have juniors to match them, in time they will pass us we need to get more draft picks. We havn't any players to trade for them so the only way to get them is finish down near the bottom.
 
hptiger said:
Compare young players with teams below us and we do not have juniors to match them, in time they will pass us we need to get more draft picks.

Surely we can't tell much about a team's juniors untill they have played a few seasons. Ours have been winning some rising star nominations, and helping us win AFL games. We wouldn't have won too many last year without them performing.
 
Djevv said:
hptiger said:
Compare young players with teams below us and we do not have juniors to match them, in time they will pass us we need to get more draft picks.

Surely we can't tell much about a team's juniors untill they have played a few seasons. Ours have been winning some rising star nominations, and helping us win AFL games. We wouldn't have won too many last year without them performing.

Djevv, I'm afraid you're posting under a false premise. You are assuming people are interested in thinking about these things calmly and not flying off the handle. You posts make entirely too much sense for the circumstances. Pull your finger out lad.
 
Djevv said:
hptiger said:
Compare young players with teams below us and we do not have juniors to match them, in time they will pass us we need to get more draft picks.

Surely we can't tell much about a team's juniors untill they have played a few seasons. Ours have been winning some rising star nominations, and helping us win AFL games. We wouldn't have won too many last year without them performing.

Im not saying our juniors are no good, just seems we have not much variety in our juniors, all seem pretty similar. Wheres our hard ball winners, someone with some grunt.

Our kpp are similar too alot of leading forwards.
 
strav... I was just looking at your avatar and it struck me, that if Pettifer was a car, I reckon that would be it.
 
frawleyudud said:
I know it was only the first round of NAB Cup etc but after that performance, I took a reality check and realised just how bad we really are at the moment. I was one of those who shot down anyone that had anything critical to say about TW. I honestly thought he was going to be the next great coach of the Richmond Football Club!! How wrong I was/am. I’ve been living on hope and tainted views. All these training reports we have been receiving and we receive each year, are nothing but a desperate tiger supporter’s view and not the real story.

Let’s have a REALISTIC look at our current list and we will see how far behind the eight ball we really are. Please realise I am looking at the list realistically and not as I have been over the last few years with hope and hype more than anything.

P.Bowden - Below Average disposal/skill. The typical Richmond player, can play some great footy and then be downright awful.
J.Bowden – Disposal can be excellent but also woeful costing us goals Can be a huge player but at the same time cost us dearly
R.Tambling - Below Average disposal. Decision Making is also disappointing. If this bloke is/was touted as the best aboriginal player to come out of the NT what does that make Maurice?? (Could be the next Fiora Pavlich draft fiasco)
B.Deledio - Good disposal/skills, but at times can let himself down immensely. Still yet to make his mark as a genuine star player as everyone has touted him to be. Hasn’t even dominated a quarter let alone an entire game. Is showing signs of stepping up, and if he continues on his last 2 games he may be a winner.
D.Meyer - Seems to have the skills and disposal of an A grader but the determination and will of a 5 year old. Could yet be another wasted high draft pick. Something tells me we will never see the best of this bloke until he is playing for SA colours.
A.Pattison - Below Average disposal and if he is being groomed as a CHF god help us. Doesn’t have the body to contest ruck and seems awfully slow. Another draft blunder in my eyes. Can’t see him making a huge impact and at the moment is not AFL standard
N.Foley - Can’t question the guys work ethic but seems that is enough to be a Richmond star in a lot of supporters eyes. Can’t see the point of extracting the ball with such efficiency only to hand it back to the opposition. Too good for VFL but not good enough for AFL.
S.Tuck – See N.Foley. Could be valuable though as a forward.
G.Tivendale – See J.Bowden. Has had a handful of decent games over the last 6 years yet continues to play week in week out. People wonder why he is a whipping and here is your answer. Epitomises the Richmond player. Looks a million dollars when the team is flying or there is no pressure being applied, but once the stakes are high and opponents apply pressure reverts to a local footy player, kicking the ball anywhere, making the wrong decisions, drops head, and chases tail for the rest of the game
M.White – Below Average disposal/skill. Good Speed but doesn’t know how to use it to affect. Not AFL Standard
K.Moore – Below Average disposal/skill. Should have been delisted two seasons ago. Not AFL Standard
D.Jackson – See K.Moore
B.Hartigan – See K.Moore
C.Hyde – See K.Moore
C.Newman – Good disposal/skill. Has been one of our better performers without being super. Does his job but lacks real star qualities. Can’t afford too many in the side at one time.
D.Gaspar – Atrocious disposal skills and that’s being kind. Unfortunately game is past him in regards to his abilities as a defender. Along with A.Kellaway should have gone earlier.
A.Raines – Good speed, guts determination but average disposal and skills. Never going set up a goal coming out of defence, but at least is willing to break the lines and run. Unfortunately most times the ball can end up anywhere.
D.Polo - Poor disposal. Another goer. Great engine and works hard to hit every contest but unfortunately like so many others doesn’t hurt the opposition when he has it.
C.Howat – See D.Polo
A.Krakouer – Good disposal and great skill but doesn’t work anywhere near what he should. Either played in the back pocket or coming out of the backline where he can setup attacks that will hurt opposition. Otherwise MUST be delisted this year.
T.Knobel – Woeful and should never have been recruited. Better of getting someone like Clarke from Adelaide than this bloke.
W.Thursfield – Below Average disposal. Played a handful of games and suddenly became the Full back of the century in some Tiger supporters eyes. Can defend well but again disposal often hurts us.
R.Hall – Woeful. Should have been delisted 3 seasons ago and offers nothing to the side.
J.Schulz. Good disposal. Can’t stay on the pitch long enough to show us he can play. If he has another injury riddled year time to trade or delist him. Has had more than enough time.
N.Brown - The only genuine Superstar the tigers have had for the last 20 years. Must be banging his head that he left the doggies. Could only imagine how potent they would be with this bloke in the side. Can tell by his body language how annoyed he gets by his team-mates each game. Deserves to play finals and a grand final!!! LEGEND
M.Richardson – Had his disposal and body language been better he would have been a genuine superstar of the competition. Still, if blokes had half the endeavour and PASSION for the tigers that this bloke has, we would win every game on will alone. Deserves finals and a grand final, but unfortunately will not see one during his playing days.
M.Coughlan – Woeful. Hard as nails great engine but hardly hurts the opposition with his disposal. Has to be traded at the end of the year while he still holds some value although not much.
C.Hughes – Still early, but again some supporters claiming him as a superstar after a handful of games.
K.Johnson – Below Average. Hard worker who hardly hurts the opposition with his disposal. Luckily Wells hasn’t really taken off!!
G.Polak - May be a good trade but will have to wait and see. Atleast his decision making seemed quite good on Sunday.
L.Mcguane – Below Average. Not AFL standard and never will be. Waste of a pick. Must be delisted at years end. Has actually showed he can atleast minimise his opponents effectiviness and might be worth persisting with.
K.Pettifer – Average. Is a drifter. Can’t play good consistent footy. Drifts in and out of games and another who goes missing when the real pressure is on.
T.Simmonds – One of the better trades we have done. Thank god he was given the ruck responsibilities which allowed him to show his true colours.
J.Reiwoldt – Haven’t seen him play
JON – Haven’t seen enough
T.Casserley. Haven’t seen him play.
A.Collins – See Casserley
D.Connors – See Casserley
C.Peterson - See Casserley

Going through that list, we can see that we are hardly blessed with skilful precise players which is were the game is heading. We are so far behind the likes of West Coast it’s laughable. What is more laughable is the fact that some supporters genuinely expect to play finals footy this year. We are headed for a bottom four finish without a doubt.

On another note here are 4 CRUCIAL mistakes the Tiger hierarchy/Coaching Panels have made in the last 10 years that have/will cripple our club. These decisions have cost the club at least 10 years of advancement, and will hurt even more looking into the future.

1. Appointment of Danny Frawley as senior coach!!!
2. Aaron Fiora chosen over Mathew Pavlich
3. Richard Tambling chosen over Buddy Franklin
4. Terry Wallace chosen over Rodney Eade - Have had a long hard think about it, and may cut him some slack as it's time that senior core group of players got the flick first.

Also apologies to Phantom for shooting him down when it came to draft selections. I flamed him every time he questioned certain selections and it seem he was right after all. Going by last couple of drafts, seems he would have been better off as our recruitment manager than what we have.

I know this may irk many supporters after round 1 of nab cup, but that has been our excuse year in year out. We need a massive list make over and a coach who doesn’t make an ideal Marketing/Media Manager. Might be a great innovator in regards to training and game day, but seem to lack a significant game plan, and is out coached too many time for my liking. On Sunday Voss picked out our problem as to why the ball was being taken out of the centre with ease from Geelong. On one centre bounce occasion we actually set up as he had recommended. We won the ball, went forward and kicked a ball. Didn’t do it for the rest of the game which had him and myself perplexed. If a bloke who has just stepped off the field can pick it, why not us.

Yes, I was one who heralded his appointment, and sprayed anyone who thought otherwise. Well, I can at least say I was wrong.

I can only hope that in 10-12 weeks, people are reading this topic and pointing out to me how WRONG my judgement is/was. Let’s hope.

Thought i would bring this post up again as 3 rounds in and it seems most my assesments and predictions have come through. Really just showing all that we aren't as good as some believe. Time for action while we still can.
 
Disco08 said:
Nice backpedal on McGuane. Are you sticking with that assesment of Tambling?
Frawleydud backpedal :o
Thank god is backpedaling isnt just exclusive to the coach ;D