Defence

[pahoffm]

Still lacks for one more classy tall.

Another genuine tall defender on Gehrig would have pushed everyone else down to a lower level forward & we would have dominated.

Hopefully we'll see it soon.

 

[Liverpool]

Plays him on a tall almost every week, Ian. That Riewoldt match up was no abberation. Can't remember who he had against Melbourne but the week before he played on Tarrant.

It's not that he necessarily thinks Raines is a KPP. Maybe he just doesn't think he's a small.

The radical move last Saturday night was that TW freed up Bowden. And that Raines played on a slightly taller player. (FWIW I reckon the problem stemmed from Riewoldt's superior ground play. We could have lived with an aerial beating.) The rest of the backline was pretty much the usual.

That's because the "in" thing at the moment is to use a small-player on a bigger player, such as Campbell Brown, Harry O'Brien, and James Gwilt....on the likes of Pavlova, Riewoldt, and Lucas.
Maybe Wallace sees Raines as our version of Brown/Gwilt/O'Brien? ??? ....who knows?

While that is working at times for some of these clubs, I'd still rather a Rutten/Glass/Michael type as my full-back, and use the Raines type as a dashing rebounder.

When it comes to finals types games....the full-backs with body are worth their weight in gold.....you only need to look at Glass on Hall in last years Grand Final, and Sydney up the other end with a smaller Leo Barry on Quinten Lynch, to see why.

Not saying get rid of Thursfield, but I think we do need someone with a bit of 'body' when on the likes of Gehrig, Pavlova, Hall, and J.Brown.

 

[IanG]

Plays him on a tall almost every week, Ian. That Riewoldt match up was no abberation. Can't remember who he had against Melbourne but the week before he played on Tarrant.

It's not that he necessarily thinks Raines is a KPP. Maybe he just doesn't think he's a small.

The radical move last Saturday night was that TW freed up Bowden. And that Raines played on a slightly taller player. (FWIW I reckon the problem stemmed from Riewoldt's superior ground play. We could have lived with an aerial beating.) The rest of the backline was pretty much the usual.

Fair enough but even so it looks like Wallace trying to get them to learn something regardless of the result.

 

[Dyer'ere]

I see where you're coming from, Ian.

Agree, Livers, it's a lot more fashionable these days. Brown on Lucas was orthodox IMO. Lucas is a small and should always have a small opponent. If you can stay with him he cannot mark it and then a small can beat him at ground level. There is a proviso, Lucas is incredibly strong aty the ball.

Riewoldt has a fine ground game. Raines did okay on Riewoldt in the air but NR outclassed him at ground level IMO. That's why the matchup failed.

But aside from all that, why didn't we go with an orthodox defensive set up? Bowden on Gehrig. Polak on Riewoldt?

In the absence of a midfield Wallet is going to cheat as much drive out of the backs as he can. We'll give up goals to get drive from the backs.

My question is if you're going to finish last (or fourth last, who cares?) why wouldn't you give your players honest assignments? Why would you encourage cheating? That's what grooming a player to play loose in the backline is.

Why didn't Wallet play Polak, his new star backman, on Riewoldt? Or Gehrig?

 

[Inspector]

Seems like they are grooming JR for a defence roll?

 

[itsintheblood]

Great post lamb

I was very impressed with will holding lloyd to 2 goals for most of the match. For a kid only playing his 2nd game after such a bad injury is pleasing.

Will needs to be locked in the gym over summer and told to build his body up. Reads the play well and is a smart footballer. Will be a star at full back.

 

[Liverpool]

Great post lamb

I was very impressed with will holding lloyd to 2 goals for most of the match. For a kid only playing his 2nd game after such a bad injury is pleasing.

Will needs to be locked in the gym over summer and told to build his body up. Reads the play well and is a smart footballer. Will be a star at full back.

I think Thursfield is great, don't get me wrong....but I don't think he has the body type to bulk up.
He reminds me of a Dustin Fletcher....all gangly, arms and legs, but effective.

 

[Anduril]

Will reminds me of Silvagni.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

Plays him on a tall almost every week, Ian. That Riewoldt match up was no abberation. Can't remember who he had against Melbourne but the week before he played on Tarrant.

It's not that he necessarily thinks Raines is a KPP. Maybe he just doesn't think he's a small.

The radical move last Saturday night was that TW freed up Bowden. And that Raines played on a slightly taller player. (FWIW I reckon the problem stemmed from Riewoldt's superior ground play. We could have lived with an aerial beating.) The rest of the backline was pretty much the usual.

Plough made the point in an article on the official web site that Raines had one incredible arsey volley goal kicked on him, and one other goal from a very marginal free kick. Without one of those goals you probably would could have called the match up a success because it freed up Bowden

 

[bertallen]

Plays him on a tall almost every week, Ian. That Riewoldt match up was no abberation. Can't remember who he had against Melbourne but the week before he played on Tarrant.

It's not that he necessarily thinks Raines is a KPP. Maybe he just doesn't think he's a small.

The radical move last Saturday night was that TW freed up Bowden. And that Raines played on a slightly taller player. (FWIW I reckon the problem stemmed from Riewoldt's superior ground play. We could have lived with an aerial beating.) The rest of the backline was pretty much the usual.

Plough made the point in an article on the official web site that Raines had one incredible arsey volley goal kicked on him, and one other goal from a very marginal free kick. Without one of those goals you probably would could have called the match up a success because it freed up Bowden

Last week Brereton said Wallace often leaves an opposition mid fielder un-manned but picks one with poor disposal so they dont hurt us and then we can have one of our midfielders run free.
Did this Bowden move mean we are now doing the same on the backline, backing Bowdens skills vs the skills of an unnamed and lightly-manned forward.
Playing Raines on Riewoldt should have meant that Riewoldt went fully forward more to outmark Raines, but then they loose his drive around the ground, and a slower Gehrig has to go up the ground. That didnt happen, both scored a lot of goals, and even if arsey they were still worth 6 pionts.
Tactics tactics tactics, but we lost so it wasnt smart enough with the players we have at the moment.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

Plays him on a tall almost every week, Ian. That Riewoldt match up was no abberation. Can't remember who he had against Melbourne but the week before he played on Tarrant.

It's not that he necessarily thinks Raines is a KPP. Maybe he just doesn't think he's a small.

The radical move last Saturday night was that TW freed up Bowden. And that Raines played on a slightly taller player. (FWIW I reckon the problem stemmed from Riewoldt's superior ground play. We could have lived with an aerial beating.) The rest of the backline was pretty much the usual.

Plough made the point in an article on the official web site that Raines had one incredible arsey volley goal kicked on him, and one other goal from a very marginal free kick. Without one of those goals you probably would could have called the match up a success because it freed up Bowden

Last week Brereton said Wallace often leaves an opposition mid fielder un-manned but picks one with poor disposal so they dont hurt us and then we can have one of our midfielders run free.
Did this Bowden move mean we are now doing the same on the backline, backing Bowdens skills vs the skills of an unnamed and lightly-manned forward.
Playing Raines on Riewoldt should have meant that Riewoldt went fully forward more to outmark Raines, but then they loose his drive around the ground, and a slower Gehrig has to go up the ground. That didnt happen, both scored a lot of goals, and even if arsey they were still worth 6 pionts.
Tactics tactics tactics, but we lost so it wasnt smart enough with the players we have at the moment.

maybe, but did we ever have a winning hand in the matchups?

I'm more worried about who the hell was on Montagna, oh wait, I think I know

 

[Dyer'ere]

If Wallet expected Riewoldt to go deep I think we could mark that down as another error, bertallen. Riewoldt, like all CHFs is a ruckrover, as he demonstrated in so many of his ground contests against Raines.

Yes, bertallen, Wallet likes to get players free. He will do deals with the devil to give us a chance to play overlap football.

During the clutch of the games we're losing, the ones we're in with a chance until it matters, the other team won't let us get a man free. They're shutting down the game and we are not able to break it open again.

On the free kick, Colonel, Riewoldt played Raines and the umpires. Bad Raines error IMO. The volley, agreed, arse.

Fair enough it freed Bowden. But given that Polak was quiet and having a bad day by foot why wasn't he given a worthy opponent. Oh, and Gilbert was getting way too much of it up the park and kicked a goal.

Agreed, Jackson had a shocker. I still can't believe that we let Montagna, a good ordinary player, get those CB clearances on a dice roll.

 

[The Lurker]

i would have thought Thirsty on Riewoldt, Polak on Gehrig would have been a better match up, Thirsty killed Riewoldt last year before he hurt his knee.

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

One v.good thing about the matchups was Plough was at least playing attacking football. They were designed as much to get run from the backline as they were to stop the Saints.

Saints did have more inside 50's, that game may not have been lost in the backline

 

[TOT70]

On Saturday night we used:

Thursfield as our #1 back. He took Gehrig. Had five kicked on him.
Raines as our #2 back. He had Riewoldt who was in the best and kicked four. Raines pretty much always plays on a tall or #3 forward. He got chopped up at ground level IMO.
Polak on that skinny Qlder. (I can never think of his name.) Polak was average, maybe a bit worse than that but not our worst.
Newman on Milne, who chopped him to peices. King was then changed on to Milne and held him for a while until but Milne cut loose again.
Deledio was tagged by Attard who flogged him until junk time.
I can't remember who Bowden played on. Anybody?


At a lot of the contests our youngsters did well but our defence was comprehensively beaten on the night.

Talk of tanking is absurd. That's the backline Wallace has in mind. IMO we are too light and too loose. It's a personnel problem.

This is a pretty fair assessment of how TW used his men in defence. He is becoming obsessed with freeing up Polak to be the loose, which would be fine if there was a match-up for both Reivioldt and Gehrig, which of course there wasn't when you go into a game with 5 players who are taller than 190cm.

Wallace has also moved Tambling into the next phase of his education, small defender playing on the speedy forwards like Davey in the Melb game. Worth persevering with this, esp if he can start to run off half-back. THis should be a good role for Tambling, given his speed and penchant for outside running. Doesn't help with the tall forwards though.

Wallace still hasn't come to grips with the usual defence against his loose defender strategy. Several coaches have taken advantage by observing the set up and finding the player who is most likely to zone off. Will it be JBowden, PBowden (last year) or Polak? Once you work this out, send a no name opponent that is likely to be disrespected and play through him. Worsfold has done it with Aaron Edwards and LeCras, Roos with Grundy and now Lyon with Gilbert. We were lucky Gilbert is a worse kick than early Richo, circa 1994.

Still lacks for one more classy tall.

Another genuine tall defender on Gehrig would have pushed everyone else down to a lower level forward & we would have dominated.

Hopefully we'll see it soon.

Yes. That was all it would take. If PBowden was available then Polak would play on Gehrig, Thursfield would take Reivoldt and Polak could be the loose. If we had a true classy tall defender he could take Gehrig and Bowdens and or/Polak could wax as the loose.

Wallace does need to review the LMID strategy though, because the smarter coaches will always screw him over. It is interesting to note that iin our only win so far, Melbourne didn't have Neitz up forward and were undermanned. Polak and JBowden were both redundant defensively and could zone-off at will.

One more stopper in the Thursfield mould or better will tighten the defence right up.

 

[Dyer'ere]

We had two loose men in there most of the time, Colonel. Sometimes a lot more. And still only Bowden could be said to have been effective IMO. The rest were beaten.

If your defenders are good enough, you just go man-on-man. And if you want to teach them football, IMO.

And our mids were smashed at crucial stages in the final quarter.

TOT he is always obsessed with freeing up someone. With Pole-hack it's just way too predictable. He mixed it up a bit with Bowden on the night.

Our #1 back is Bowden. Why not play him there? Our #2 back, the star we recruited in the off-season, is Pole-hack? Why does he not get an opponent, say, Nick Riewoldt? He's up for All-Aust selection.

If we beat Riewoldt and Gehrig in that game, we win it. Raines on Riewoldt? Thursfield on Gehrig? WTF is the suntanned one thinking? Tactical genius? No and anyway, what would be the point? The side needs to play honest.

This mismatch overlap *smile* has to stop.

 

[TOT70]

TOT he is always obsessed with freeing up someone. With Pole-hack it's just way too predictable. He mixed it up a bit with Bowden on the night.

Our #1 back is Bowden. Why not play him there? Our #2 back, the star we recruited in the off-season, is Pole-hack? Why does he not get an opponent, say, Nick Riewoldt? He's up for All-Aust selection.

If we beat Riewoldt and Gehrig in that game, we win it. Raines on Riewoldt? Thursfield on Gehrig? WTF is the suntanned one thinking? Tactical genius? No and anyway, what would be the point? The side needs to play honest.

This mismatch overlap *smile* has to stop.

Yeah, I agree. We do better when the opposition refuses to give him the mismatch because then we end up with an eight man defence (with eight opponents who have no space) and a four man forward line with acres of space.

Richo, Brown, Pettifer and Fevola would be a handy group with half the MCG to work in.

You are right, though. The mismatch overlap *smile* does us no favours when the opposition exploit it. Especially when the obsession leads to *smile* pinch-hitting nonsense like Raines on Reivoldt. If he keeps this up, in round 22 he'll have enough confidence in King to pinch-hit him on Gehrig!

 

[Dyer'ere]

:hihi

 

[Col.E.Kurtz]

We had two loose men in there most of the time, Colonel. Sometimes a lot more. And still only Bowden could be said to have been effective IMO. The rest were beaten.

If your defenders are good enough, you just go man-on-man. And if you want to teach them football, IMO.

And our mids were smashed at crucial stages in the final quarter.

TOT he is always obsessed with freeing up someone. With Pole-hack it's just way too predictable. He mixed it up a bit with Bowden on the night.

Our #1 back is Bowden. Why not play him there? Our #2 back, the star we recruited in the off-season, is Pole-hack? Why does he not get an opponent, say, Nick Riewoldt? He's up for All-Aust selection.

If we beat Riewoldt and Gehrig in that game, we win it. Raines on Riewoldt? Thursfield on Gehrig? WTF is the suntanned one thinking? Tactical genius? No and anyway, what would be the point? The side needs to play honest.

This mismatch overlap *smile* has to stop.

mmm, interesting. I would be sympathetic to the argument that Thirsty is already our no.1 tall defender as a stopper.

I agree I don’t like the way the coaching staff seem to have no confidence in Polack as a one on one defender. Third man up in the contest and playing lose in the backline is a lazy role without much true value add. It looks goods on TV but it doesn’t win you games.

Still, I think considering the ball coming down Raines and Thirsty played okay, I would point the finger more at the midfield.

 

[poppa x]

I can sorta explain TW's reasons for his match ups:

Riewoldt killed Joel after Thursty hurt his knee last year and won them the game.
Polak would have been too way slow for Riewoldt whose strength his his ground level game.
And Gehrig has kicked 10 on Joel in the past.
Thursty touched up the diver so he was worth a shot on Gehrig.

And please don't forget that the moves mostly worked. At 3/4 time we were well in the game.