defensive forwards or lack thereof.

[BrisTiger24]

Watching some of the latter Coburg games last year, the man applying good defensive pressure up forward was Schulz. Now, he's never really done it at AFL level and I can't recall this facet of his game in earlier Coburg games but I noticed a marked improvement in this area of his game later in Coburg's finals games.

It sounds simplistic, but he'll either bring that facet of his late 2007 into 2008 at AFL level and be the person yearned for in this thread or he'll go back to the way he was and probably won't be there beyond 2008.

I also think Patto if played more up forward can serve this role. He chases very hard and isn't a bad tackle.

 

[linuscambridge]

Watching some of the latter Coburg games last year, the man applying good defensive pressure up forward was Schulz. Now, he's never really done it at AFL level and I can't recall this facet of his game in earlier Coburg games but I noticed a marked improvement in this area of his game later in Coburg's finals games.

It sounds simplistic, but he'll either bring that facet of his late 2007 into 2008 at AFL level and be the person yearned for in this thread or he'll go back to the way he was and probably won't be there beyond 2008.

I also think Patto if played more up forward can serve this role. He chases very hard and isn't a bad tackle.

Schulz is also one of the only players to consistantly hurt the opposition by hitting packs really hard. One of the only highlights of the first Geelong thrashing was Jay leaving about three Geelong players prone on the ground after hitting the pack at full tilt. Unfortunately he gave himself a corky and spent most of the rest of the match on the bench.

At least then it's one loss we can't blame him for.

 

[Tigers of Old]

From my observations, our whole team could apply more defensive pressure and stop this 'corralling' BS! Fine make sure they don't run past you, but FFS then start moving in and cutting the angles so they can't pin point a target with the endless time corralling provides!

'Corralling'. :blah
Is this the players fault or the coaching staff's?

Agree though we don't tackle anywhere near enough across the whole park, not just up front.

 

[TigerMasochist]

'Corralling'. :blah
Is this the players fault or the coaching staff's?

Agree though we don't tackle anywhere near enough across the whole park, not just up front.

Coralling is the coaches call and it fair sucks. With the skills of players today just prancing around and flapping your arms has no effect on the ball carrier, his space must be crowded and pressured to force an error.
As for defensive forwards, we sacked the only one we had. Krak was the only forward who could lay a tackle.
Would not mind seeing if Dan Connors could do some mongrel work in the forward line while he develops the engine to go mid.
There's not much earmarked on the list that could turn into a big ugly feral forward.

 

[the claw]

Coralling is the coaches call and it fair sucks. With the skills of players today just prancing around and flapping your arms has no effect on the ball carrier, his space must be crowded and pressured to force an error.
As for defensive forwards, we sacked the only one we had. Krak was the only forward who could lay a tackle.
Would not mind seeing if Dan Connors could do some mongrel work in the forward line while he develops the engine to go mid.
There's not much earmarked on the list that could turn into a big ugly feral forward.

krakouer wasnt a defensive forward he was just slow and always second to the ball.in fact krakouer wasnt even a footballer footballers manage to get hold of the ball every now and then. sheesh he was part of the problem that continues to this day.

 

[Six Pack]

krakouer wasnt a defensive forward he was just slow and always second to the ball.in fact krakouer wasnt even a footballer footballers manage to get hold of the ball every now and then. sheesh he was part of the problem that continues to this day.

Claswy that is the 999th time you've said 'sheesh.'

one more and you've got a kebab!

 

[Hayfever]

Krak was the only forward who could lay a tackle

Absolutely true TM. Lost the plot in 2007 and did not warrant being kept on but prior to that was our only forward who had any idea about how to lay a tackle and fight for the ball once it hit the ground. All this rubbish about being second to the ball is just that....... rubbish. Our other forwards usually just stood and watched, so what were they...... 3rd, 4th or 15th?

He was also our most accurate in shots at goal, and set-up his team mates frequently...... so there were many times when he was actually first to the ball as well. The stats dont lie. Richo, Brown, Pettifer, Tivendale, Schulz have bugger all idea about the defensive side of the game. Tambo has the potential to be good in this area but still has a lot to learn. Riewoldt has no idea at this stage but is still young enough to learn hopefully.

 

[Talon]

Absolutely true TM. Lost the plot in 2007 and did not warrant being kept on but prior to that was our only forward who had any idea about how to lay a tackle and fight for the ball once it hit the ground. All this rubbish about being second to the ball is just that....... rubbish. Our other forwards usually just stood and watched, so what were they...... 3rd, 4th or 15th?

He was also our most accurate in shots at goal, and set-up his team mates frequently...... so there were many times when he was actually first to the ball as well. The stats dont lie. Richo, Brown, Pettifer, Tivendale, Schulz have bugger all idea about the defensive side of the game. Tambo has the potential to be good in this area but still has a lot to learn. Riewoldt has no idea at this stage but is still young enough to learn hopefully. Krakouer WAS always second to the ball, always looked uninterested and always missed relatively easy shots when the goals were really needed, if Richmond were 6 goals up he would kick them, if they were down by 10 points in the 3rd quarter in desperate need of a goal to stay in the game, you could bet your life, it was gonna miss, that was Krakouer, players like him, Pettifer and Bowden are the reason the club struggles to climb up the ladder, the proof is for all to see in the last decade, but most Richmond supporters see these players as heroes of the club and think these players are gonna win the Coleman, Brownlow or a Premiership medal, they will never get close because they have no heart, they have no want, they have no desire to do the hard things, the little things that bring success, none of them would make it in a top side, there would be too many others in front of them who are willing and prepared to do the necessary things to win!

 

[Hayfever]

Got any stats to back up your ramblings Talon?

 

[Talon]

Got any stats to back up your ramblings Talon?

I think the wooden spoon and lack of Spring football speaks louder than stats!

 

[Hayfever]

I think the wooden spoon and lack of Spring football speaks louder than stats!

Lack thereof :cutelaugh

 

[Phar Ace]

I think the wooden spoon and lack of Spring football speaks louder than stats!

I'd counter by saying that more than three people are responsible for what you call "speaking louder". Too simplistic by a long way................

 

[Talon]

I'd counter by saying that more than three people are responsible for what you call "speaking louder". Too simplistic by a long way................

I said players like him, Pettifer and Bowden, thats not limiting it to 3 players, most of the squad in the past decade have been tard with the same brush, these type of player have never taken the club to success and never will, other clubs seem to be able to make tough decisions and cut so called heroes and rebuild, I can't believe some of the supporters on PRE, their heads are way too far up their back ends, some talk about making the eight, the best possible finish will be 15th, this team, this squad, this club is so far behind the eight ball, there won't be a serious premiership assault in the next 10 years!

 

[Dyer'ere]

Newman should have been played as a high forward in his second and or third senior season as part of his development IMO. It didn't happen and at the end of his fifth senior year he was finally taking some goal shots. Way too late. (This is a halfback's bread and butter.)

We've recruited McMahon and Morton as small backs for this year. At least one too many IMO but such is life.

That leaves us a man to move up the park. That man should be Jake King. He's got all the talents we need for a small forward to help lock it in and to get to the fall. It's a vital part of his education and the sort of development we've overlooked in the past.

Jake King's just the type we need on the forward line. If he's in there with other quick players he has the tood and speed to lead the onslaught on the opposition poncing backs. Watch em cough it up.

 

[pahoffm]

Reckon our lack of defensive forwards really comes from us playing too many "specialist" forwards in the one team.

A typical Richmond team would have Richo, Hughes/Schulz, Browny, Pettifer. That's 4 specialist forwards without any one of them being a tackler.
Krakouer was probably the only exception to this, which is why he endured so long on the list.

Whether you believe in the old school of footy or the new school, or some of both, the old school did have 2nd rovers, ruckrovers & centres resting in the forward line. These were usually goalkicking onballers who could run and put pressure on defenders.

In the new school these resting onballers are changed off the bench, the forward line positions taken now by specialist forwards who don't have the defensive skills.

My guess is that if you do look closelt enough at top teams, they do have onballers playing up forward. Geelong with Ablett Jnr & Steve Johnson up forward but changing onball are good examples.

Anyway, that's what I reckon.
I'm sure others will have their own opinions.

 

[Hayfever]

Reckon our lack of defensive forwards really comes from us playing too many "specialist" forwards in the one team.

A typical Richmond team would have Richo, Hughes/Schulz, Browny, Pettifer. That's 4 specialist forwards without any one of them being a tackler.
Krakouer was probably the only exception to this, which is why he endured so long on the list.

Whether you believe in the old school of footy or the new school, or some of both, the old school did have 2nd rovers, ruckrovers & centres resting in the forward line. These were usually goalkicking onballers who could run and put pressure on defenders.

In the new school these resting onballers are changed off the bench, the forward line positions taken now by specialist forwards who don't have the defensive skills.

My guess is that if you do look closelt enough at top teams, they do have onballers playing up forward. Geelong with Ablett Jnr & Steve Johnson up forward but changing onball are good examples.

Anyway, that's what I reckon.
I'm sure others will had their own opinions

Spot on Phanto. Geelong also had the pit bull Chapman lurking around as well up forward at times. You might be interested in comparing the Geelong stats of 2007 with those of 2006 to see where the improvements came from. It makes interesting reading, especially the tackling and goalkicking ones.

http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/teamplayersstats.php?t1=8&yrfm=2007&yrto=2007
http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/teamplayersstats.php?t1=8&yrfm=2006&yrto=2006

PS: A table can be resorted by simply clicking on the column heading.

 

[pahoffm]

Spot on Phanto. Geelong also had the pit bull Chapman lurking around as well up forward at times. You might be interested in comparing the Geelong stats of 2007 with those of 2006 to see where the improvements came from. It makes interesting reading, especially the tackling and goalkicking ones.

http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/teamplayersstats.php?t1=8&yrfm=2007&yrto=2007
http://afl.allthestats.com/teams/teamplayersstats.php?t1=8&yrfm=2006&yrto=2006

PS: A table can be resorted by simply clicking on the column heading.

Wonderful all these summary files on the "Net" now.

Beats hell out of keeping the weekly stats that I used to do week after week for decades.