Depression Proven To Be Very Common In The AFL

[Ruby]

Rosy

I'm a long time reader but have resisted the urge to post until now. I just wanted to say that I read your post, and think that you are a courageous woman who is deserved of respect for taking on what must feel like a pretty thankless task at times. You do a great job as moderator of this board. You should be (and I am sure that you are) proud of the work that you do on PRE. You also sound like you have had to face real adversity, and have done so with integrity. Well, just wanted to send a message of support, and provide some positive feedback.

I will disappear back to my cave now. By the way, I first started viewing (earlier versions of) this site back in about 1999, when you were simply another poster along with the likes of lenshearer and others. I was a public servant back then, with way too much time on my hands. I even tried to post on one earlier occassion (was a thesis on whether Richmond ought to keep or trade Ben Holland after the 2001 season) but didn't push the right button and lost about an hours worth of my musings. I was gun shy and never tried to post again after that misadventure. The honesty and openess of your post led me to try again. Keep up the good work.

Cheers

Ruby

 

[Rosy]

Hi Ruby,

I'm touched you went to the trouble and am humbled by your kind words.  I thought long and hard about posting that message after I'd written it but I'm so glad I did.  I've had some lovely e-mails from people discussing their own situation and also one advising me of some drug-free treatment that may possibly be of assistance.

The more people understand about mental health issues the more widely they'll be accepted as just another kind of illness and one that doesn't deserve the stigma it carries.

Thanks for the reminder about LenShearer.  Would love to see him back posting and have often wondered where he got to.

I was a member of the old Roarpower for ages before posting too, the first one is definitely the hardest.

I hope you post again, and next time pressing the right buttons, but if not happy reading. :hearton

 

[tigersnake]

don't be shy Ruby, anonimity is a beautiful thing.

 

[mb64]

Im more interested in how many Tiger fans have suffered  from depression................. the results could be terrifying.

And depressing.

 

[chislop]

It is a great post and I agree with most of it except the first sentence. We don't all get depressed, and to say so devalues genuine depression. We all get sad and down, getting dumped, death of a friend, getting shellacked by Carlton, etc. thats all normal and healthy. real Depression is different. I've never been depressed, but people close to me have.

I stand corrected Tigersnake and thank you for pointing my mistake, however, I can assure you that writing the "depression" was misuse of the term through misunderstanding rather than an attempt to devalue the condition. You're absolutely right, there is a chasm between sadness, being down etc and a clinical condition and in future I will be careful to distinguish the two.

In response to Rosy's post, my heart went out to you while reading what you have been through and I admire you all the more for soldiering on with this site. That's true dedication for you folks. Big hugs through cyber space for you Rosy and thank you for having the temerity and determination to rise above the shallow folk of this world.

 

[Rayzorwire]

There is quite a body of research indicating that many instances of depression are brought on by incorrect diet and/or a number of other physical illnesses which are increasingly commonly misdiagnosed as 'a chemical imbalance in the brain.'

The statement that patients have a 'chemical imbalance in the brain' has no root whatsoever in scientific fact, but it has made a lot of money for the pharmaceutical industry and the medical practitioners who in the past have received perks and bonuses for prescribing them. Anti-depressants switch off receptors in the brain and were introduced into the market with no testing to deduce whether or not these receptors can ever function properly again, or other immediate or long term cumulative side effects.

Medical science has no knowledge of what a correct chemical balance of the brain looks like - let alone an incorrect one - and has no way of testing or measuring such a thing.

A few links in support of the above (there are plenty more out there):

Depression? Where is the Scientific Evidence of any "Chemical Imbalance"...

TREATING MENTAL DISORDERS - A Neuroscientist Says No to Drugs

ORGANIC CONDITIONS THAT ARE COMMONLY MISDIAGNOSED AS MENTAL DISEASE

Can psychiatry be retrieved from a biological approach?


Do anti-depressants help some people? Yes, but placebo's are also scientifically proven to help some people. Reoccurrence of depression is enormously common in sufferers despite the medication they take - Jon Hay being a prime example among many. Personally, I think it's kind of immoral for the medical industry to peddle a 'cure' for a 'chemical imbalance' they can't in any way scientifically prove or measure the existence of, while knowing next to nothing about how this 'cure' affects short or long term brain chemistry and body function.

Does the medical industry even care about the end results? It's nice to have a magic pill you can give people...better than saying 'we don't have a clue'...which is not a thing any doctor in this day and age wants to admit...but it is the truth in this instance...medical science knows very little about how the brain functions and next to nothing about 'chemical balances' or 'imbalances' which may or may not take place.

But anyway, back to the topic (with the above put out there for people's perusal), is there a likelihood that in many cases affected AFL players are being misdiagnosed with depression when their special diet or another physical illness is the actual root of the problem?

Furthermore, clubs apply the best of medical science to physical player injuries, but how often do clubs apply that same standard to mental illness players experience? Do these blokes get shipped off to the doctor, get the all too common 'magic pill' approach with no check for other possible causes (a very common occurrence) and get put on the 'magic pills' only to end up like Jon Hay years down the track?...quite probably because of a misdiagnosis and recourse to medication which is somewhat proven anecdotally at best (with the disasters largely hidden away)...downright dangerous at worst.

Anyway, I wasn't going to comment again on this thread, but I researched this topic quite a bit years ago on behalf of a relative and I thought I'd share some of my findings and thoughts on the matter. Those of you who do suffer from depression or know someone who does may be able to benefit from a different perspective - particularly if conventional Western medical 'wisdom' is not helping.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Good post Rayzor. It should be pointed out though that depression (Thompson) and bipolar disorder (Hay) are two separate illnesses. Bipolar disorder used to be called "manic depression" and has likely been renamed to avoid confusion.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Yep, good point LTRTR...I only caught the bi-polar part of the diagnosis in the last few days and it slipped my mind as I'd been thinking 'depression' for weeks in relation to Jon.

 

[Rosy]

In response to Rosy's post, my heart went out to you while reading what you have been through and I admire you all the more for soldiering on with this site.  That's true dedication for you folks.  Big hugs  through cyber space for you Rosy and thank you for having the temerity and determination to rise above the shallow folk of this world.

Thanks GT.   :grouphug

It was pretty hard going at times but thankfully by far the majority of people are genuine and caring and help in many ways to make PRE such a wonderful site worth fighting for.  I doubt most of the people who tipped me over the edge meant any harm either really. If only people could abide by treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself.  We never know what others are going through in their lives.  That's probably true of the people who harrass others on the net too.  Their lives must be lacking in some way for them to spend their time being so bitter and nasty towards others.

As for Rayzorwire's post.  The repeated "magic pills" comments trivialise anti-depressants imo.  I'd advise people with any concerns about their mental state of health to seek professional advise rather than get confused by heaps of internet information where articles can favour their own agendas as much as drug companies can.  For all the above links I'm sure there are as many from an opposing viewpoint.

I avoid prescribed medicine and usually opt for alternatives if possible. Blackmore's products weren't helping me in the least and there is no way one placebo would have done what the anti-depressants did for me.  I don't need a thesis about how I didn't try the placebo approach.  With hindsight I know what an absolute wreck I was before taking the tablets.  The almost immediate difference was like being in a dingy crossing Bass Straight compared to floating on a lilo in a swimming pool. 

I don't think we're qualified to understand Nathan's or Jon's conditions and treatment based on a few journo articles.  The postitive from their illness becoming public is that it's raised awareness of the issue of mental health

Every case of depression is different and it's too important to muck around.  Best to seek help and let the experts in their fields diagnose and suggest the best treatment for each individual. 

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

I think Rayzorwire's post needs to be treated with some caution.

I am finishing off a PhD looking into the causes of depression in adolescents, and have therefore been emersed in literature on depression for the last three years.

It is best and most accurate to say that depression is a multifactorial syndrome - i.e., there are numerous processes, mechanisms and risk factors thought to contribute to its aetiology (i.e., causes). As such, I'm sure diet could contribute positively in a holistic way. Simple things like regular exercise have been shown to have a dramatic effect.

I agree that the pharmaceutical lobby has a very loud voice, and personally I think anti-depressants are over-prescribed. However there is vast amounts of research which shows that people with depression have altered brain functioning, and anti-depressants do help people. Don't forget that people with depression are at a vastly increased risk for suicide, so it is a very serious matter.

For drug free alternatives, there are therapies like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) which have had great success in many cases.

Re Bipolar. Both Bipolar and Depression are considered Mood Disorders. Someone with bipolar suffers depressive episodes as part of their condition.

 

[Tigerfan]

For drug free alternatives, there are therapies like Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) which have had great success in many cases.

I completely agree with this.

It is found that sufficient negative -self-talk' can erode norepinephrine and seratonin neurotransmitters.

The 'prozac's etc. seek to restore those.

For mine, the nervous system isn't a swimming pool which we can dump chemicals into every time there's a problem. Sure it has an effect but is it the best solution?

The CBT attempts to change the thought patterns that create the problem rather than just adding chemicals.

 

[Rayzorwire]

I think Rayzorwire's post needs to be treated with some caution.

I am finishing off a PhD looking into the causes of depression in adolescents, and have therefore been emersed in literature on depression for
the last three years.

It is best and most accurate to say that depression is a multifactorial syndrome - i.e., there are numerous processes, mechanisms and risk factors thought to contribute to its aetiology (i.e., causes). As such, I'm sure diet could contribute positively in a holistic way. Simple things like regular exercise have been shown to have a dramatic effect.

Yep, absolutely.

I agree that the pharmaceutical lobby has a very loud voice, and personally I think anti-depressants are over-prescribed.

Agreed Mr P...to me the most concerning thing is the lack of full (or in many cases any) investigation into possible cause before prescriptions are written out. It's become like prescribing anti-biotics...the 'magic pill' approach.

However there is vast amounts of research which shows that people with depression have altered brain functioning, and anti-depressants do help people.

Altered brain functioning is one thing, whereas the cause being a 'chemical imbalance' which needs to be chemically treated is another matter altogether. Anti-depressants help some people, there are others that are most definitely harmed by them or have very short term or no positive benefit.

Personally, I think that 'magic pill' treatments should be last in a range of different treatments - including the CBT you mention Mr P - and should only come after a very thorough diagnosis phase. Unfortunately, our health system - especially the mental health sector - is so over stretched that the one visit, few questions 'magic pill' approach is often the first form of treatment and in too many cases, the only 'solution' able to be offered.

 

[Rosy]

Several posts on another thread were removed recently. When I get a chance I'll merge some of them to this thread. Depression is a term that often gets bandied about loosely but it is a serious problem for those affected. The deleted posts were reported and removed because they named and discussed a particular player as suffering from depression. That may or may not be true but it's not right to name people if the info isn't in the public arena. It could also be considered slanderous if the claims were unfounded.

 

[shamekha]

i work in the mental health field and depression is very problematic in our society. it does need to be addressed and it is very much becoming a more common problem amongst men in particular. Not sure whether its because men feel better about coming forward with it or for other reasons.

My thoughts.

As the years go by, many men are having trouble adjusting to societies changes and with the traditional role of the man very much changed over the last 100 years i don't think mans instinctive brains have been able to change at the same rate.

Behaviours that were common and accepted, as just being a man, is no longer acceptable or tolerated in a society that is striving for equality. In sport where being a dominant male, the alpha male is required, i believe it exacerbates the problem even further. Just take a look at the battle ex-footballers go through when they retire and join mainstream society. Many of them turn to alcohol or drugs because they have not learnt the skills to cope with life away from the spotlight of football. Wayne Carey is a perfect example of this. i would really like to see a study done on the many men who have retired from football and see how they are coping.

Life is changing at a rapid rate and to be honest, i don't think the human race is evolving fast enough for this change.

Anyway thats my take.

 

[Silent Bob]

Just take a look at the battle ex-footballers go through when they retire and join mainstream society. Many of them turn to alcohol or drugs because they have not learnt the skills to cope with life away from the spotlight of football.

Too true and happens in all sports when you go from public adulation to zip. A couple of champion boxers come to mind in Lester Ellis and Frank Bruno. Both having suicidal thoughts.

 

[smasha]

i work in the mental health field and depression is very problematic in our society. it does need to be addressed and it is very much becoming a more common problem amongst men in particular. Not sure whether its because men feel better about coming forward with it or for other reasons.

My thoughts.

As the years go by, many men are having trouble adjusting to societies changes and with the traditional role of the man very much changed over the last 100 years i don't think mans instinctive brains have been able to change at the same rate.

Behaviours that were common and accepted, as just being a man, is no longer acceptable or tolerated in a society that is striving for equality. In sport where being a dominant male, the alpha male is required, i believe it exacerbates the problem even further. Just take a look at the battle ex-footballers go through when they retire and join mainstream society. Many of them turn to alcohol or drugs because they have not learnt the skills to cope with life away from the spotlight of football. Wayne Carey is a perfect example of this. i would really like to see a study done on the many men who have retired from football and see how they are coping.

Life is changing at a rapid rate and to be honest, i don't think the human race is evolving fast enough for this change.

Anyway thats my take.

I was one of the lucky ones brought up as a child through the 70s.

Best decade ever!!!!!

No computers,mobile phones,awful music like hip hop and Richmond feared throughout the land.

Except I was too young to go to the GFs. :'(

 

[smasha]

My depression started late 82.


Went crap at school.

Hated life.


My drums got me through the pain and emptyness of high school.

The RFC owes me my life. :'(


Following Richmond is like having bipolar.

Game day,so excited I can't sit down,turn up Richmond let us down then the severe depression on the way home.

I get suicidal sometimes. :'(

Carlton game =never felt that low since the 82 GF loss.

 

[Jezza81]

This is exactly why we need avenues of expression such as pre.

Whenever we lose it's just like one big group therapy session afterwards!!

 

[craig]

Depression is a massive problem in modern society, and modern society has much to do with it, even though as we know chemical imbalance of feel good neurotransmitters such as serotonin and dopamine are primary cause.

The reasons and contributing factors as to why many suffer from these effects (physical, dietry, social, environmental, genetic) and what causes them are still much a mystery.

 

[TigerForce]

I was one of the lucky ones brought up as a child through the 70s.

Best decade ever!!!!!

No computers,mobile phones,awful music like hip hop and Richmond feared throughout the land.

Except I was too young to go to the GFs. :'(

Totally agree smasha. What a waste of 10 or so years we've lived in listening to this crap. ;D