Do you think we have improved from last year?

[jb03]

Not as much as ToO's posting.

It was bad before?   :hihi

;D No, I didn't say it was bad before.  Just improved.   ;D :hihi

(Though I notice your TT tipping ability has gone AWOL)

 

[Anduril]

Not sure about Polo ..turns the ball over too much.

You are kidding surely.

 

[Darth Tiger]

Yes

 

[Brettstigers]

TOO love the post but believe you missed a catgegory:

Player Development
Three rising star nominations, general impovement in numerous players including Meyer, Howat, Tambling Pattison, White, Bowden P.
Plus 20% (higher if you compare it to the frawly era)

Contribution to overall improvement - additional 5%!

Damn but it has been awhile since Richmond have shown so much player development in one season.

 

[bowden4president]

Definitely!!!

The kids have come on a fair bit and Simmo has been awesome!!!

Injuries have really hurt us so hopefully we have better luck that next year!!

Bring on 2007!!!! :beer :gotigers

 

[the claw]

have we improved? in a word no.we have stagnated. a handful of juniors have improved and others have shown enough to suggest that they might become good players.
the vast majority though who have had a reasonably regular go have either gone backwards or stagnated.bowden brown chaffey coughlan gaspar hal;l hartigan hyde jackson knobel krakouer limbach moore pattison pettifer richardson roach rodan stafford tivendale and tuck.
imo and i know most ferals dont want to hear it is we will get worse before we get better as far as ladder position goes. our list structure is terrible our seniors are mostly average to poor and a few juniors have big q marks over their heads.
in 2 yrs wallace has taken us from terrible to just plain bad. its probably going to take him another 2 yrs to take us from bad to average.

 

[Tigers of Old]

(Though I notice your TT tipping ability has gone AWOL)

Claiming victory already hey Jack Brabham? ;D

 

[AstroboyUK]

Looking at it another way....

you could say we've improved because I cant think of another non-finals year where I a) didnt feel a sense of hopelessness by round 14-15. b) we havent (yet) completely trashed the second half of the season (and Im not judging this on wins alone).

I think there is the capacity for alot further improvement too: this team has the potential: I just hope the club has the ability to develop and realise it.

 

[jb03]

(Though I notice your TT tipping ability has gone AWOL)

Claiming victory already hey Jack Brabham? ;D

No not at all, unless the comp ceases at round 19. I'd actually given up a couple of weeks ago when I picked some team that let me down (see RFC) and ony checked the ladder and tips this week. IT's about the only tipping comp of a squillion I'm in that I'm anywhere near the lead.

 

[diggler]

Claw you are the voice of reason.
How the hell can you say we have improved, when you see the likes of proven duds like Chaffey,
Stafford, Hall and Tivendale, still getting a game.
Wallace will need every year of his 5 year contract, because things will get very ugly in the next two years, due
to short sighted recruiting.
You cant build a premiership side around running midgets and Collingwood 6 footers!!!
And if you think three 100 point losses is pretty bad, be prepared to accept alot worse.
Because who have we got to stop the oppositions gun forwards?
Bloody running midgets!!!
And you can all blame Terry Frawley and Danny Miller for this big, colossal mess!!!

 

[newyorktiger]

Thanks for yor thoughts Diggler.

 

[Al Bundy]

And you can all blame Terry Frawley and Danny Miller for this big, colossal mess!!!

And based on your views I was surprised you forgot to mention Greg Wallace !

 

[TigerLuke]

i think we have improved from last year. our draw was worse than last year, only 3 interstate trips last year, 6 this year. another thing to note is that last year we won 7 of the first 9 with (arguably) our best player, brown, a significant contributor in most of those wins(remember 5 goals in the last qtr v collingwood?). this year we should end up with the same amount of wins without browny winning any games off his own boot, the 'slack' has been picked up by the rest of the list.

this year we have had significant improvements from simmonds and pettifer. raines and polo have come from no-where to be potential stars. hyde was going very well until he injured his shoulder against c'wood. and i wonder what thursfield would have done this year. i fully expect at least a couple more players to make significant improvements over summer with wallace at the helm(like raines and polo last summer, tuck and lids the year before), who those players are no-one knows! i mean if we can find significant improvements from 3 or 4 players each year then after a few years we'll have a pretty good core of players, add in a couple of trades and who knows how good we'll be! ;D

have we improved? in a word no.we have stagnated. a handful of juniors have improved and others have shown enough to suggest that they might become good players.

i think the question should be 'are we in a better position to challenge for the flag in the next few years?' - i believe we are.

the vast majority though who have had a reasonably regular go have either gone backwards or stagnated.bowden brown chaffey coughlan gaspar hal;l hartigan hyde jackson knobel krakouer limbach  moore pattison pettifer richardson roach rodan stafford tivendale and tuck.

c'mon claw, you seem to sprout negativity without even thinking about it. to say that all those players have 'gone backwards or stagnated' is taking a very simplistic and unrealist view imo.
j bowden - i agree, hasn't got much better, but what did you expect? he was AA last year, will go close again this year.
brown - what did you expect? he's coming back from a career threatening injury
chaffey - been injured most of the year
coughlan - certainly claw, he has gone backwards since rnd 12 v hawthorn before that i thought he had improved on last year.
gaspar - how would you expect him to get better at his age? too many injuries to make judgement
hall - probably hasnt got better from last year but still doing the jobs asked of him despite his injuries this year. still being asked to play out of position.
hartigan - hasnt been given much of a chance to go 'backwards or stagnate'
hyde - significant improvement this year until injuring his shoulder v c'wood
jackson - your big hope claw. hasnt been given much of a chance to go 'backwards or stagnate'
knobel - injured most of the year but the games he did play he did pretty well in the ruck contests.
krakouer - i agree with krak, about the same as last year. needs to get more consistent.
limbach - by all accounts significantly improving at coburg
moore - injured most of the year
pattison - definite improvement on last year. i'm happy with his season. seriously claw, what were you expecting from him this year?
pettifer - c'mon claw, if you cant see that he has improved this year then you are blind. second in our goal kicking and leading with our goal assists - some people complain that we don't score enough goals yet they want to trade him...
richardson - what did you expect at his age?
roach - hasnt been given much of a chance to go 'backwards or stagnate'
rodan - can't judge, coming back from serious knee injury. and i'm sure you'll be pleased he kicked 5 for coburg at the weekend!
stafford - what did you expect at his age? doing the job around the club that has been asked of him. contributed most games despite what you think.
tivendale - agree
tuck - maybe not having as much of an impact as last year but still getting plenty of the ball despite added attention from the opposition. also, (from pro-stats) Ranked 4th in Contested Possessions Per Game, Ranked 18th in First Possessions Per Game

imo and i know most ferals dont want to hear it is we will get worse before we get better as far as ladder position goes.

i do agree that some of us get ahead of ourselves with where we are at, and i do think there is a chance we will have one really disappointing year out of the next 3(look at geelong this year). i think also that when people hear '5 year plan' they think it means a premiership in the 5th year...this unfortunately is not the case. i'm realising that it (hopefully) means that after 5 years we will be in a position to challenge for a top 4 spot consistently.

in 2 yrs wallace has taken us from terrible to just plain bad. its probably going to take him another 2 yrs to take us from bad to average.

claw, i'm not sure if you're critising wallace this time?? or just stating a fact. in any case this is about all that could have been expected.

 

[Brettstigers]

have we improved? in a word no.we have stagnated. a handful of juniors have improved and others have shown enough to suggest that they might become good players.
the vast majority though who have had a reasonably regular go have either gone backwards or stagnated.bowden brown chaffey coughlan gaspar hal;l hartigan hyde jackson knobel krakouer limbach  moore pattison pettifer richardson roach rodan stafford tivendale and tuck.
imo and i know most ferals dont want to hear it is we will get worse before we get better as far as ladder position goes. our list structure is terrible our seniors are mostly average to poor and a few juniors have big q marks over their heads.
in 2 yrs wallace has taken us from terrible to just plain bad. its probably going to take him another 2 yrs to take us from bad to average.

I actually don't disagree with the general sentiment of this post - I couldn't give a stuff where our ladder position is as long as our player develop and improve (preferably faster than the opposition) and our list improves - and yes it will take time.
Fact:  We have won more games in 2006 than our list has a right too. Demonstrates Wallace's capability & discipline in the player group to play to instruction
Fact:  Those wins came about because of significant improvement in a core of players with bugger'all games under their belt stepping up to fill the gaps in the team
Fact:  A proportion of the players nominated by you Claw won't be with the club next year and a larger proportion won't be with the club in two years
Fact:  A number of the players who have not improved have spent a significant proportion of the season cruelled by injury
Fact:  A number of the players classed as not improving are talls who don't have the body size to play AFL yet so their improvent (if any) isn't very visible
Fact:  A number of players who are classed as not improving are already at a reasonable standard ie. first tier afl player (eg. Tuck, BowdenJ)

So it isn't quite as dark as you make out but regardless it is going to take time and the standard I believe you are aiming for (genuine finals team) is two to three years off.  finals easybeat we are getting close to already.

Good post Claw generated some good respones which have discussed what you raised rather than had a go at you personally for a change. 

 

[nswtiger]

we will see in 3 weeks time

 

[Tango]

of course we have improved,

we know know we can win without playing the duds

we know that Polo, Foley, Howat, Thursfield, lids, tambling, patto, white & pettifer can all play at the top level

we have JON, Limbach, Hughes & Casserley waiting for their turn to show what they can do next year - hopefully they can step up

we did all this with a heap of injured players, poor draw and we look like finishing better than last year

to me thats improvement..... not spectacular but moving in the right direction

 

[Richmond United]

Only those with heads in sand would think not!

 

[tigersforever06]

have we improved? in a word no.we have stagnated. a handful of juniors have improved and others have shown enough to suggest that they might become good players.
the vast majority though who have had a reasonably regular go have either gone backwards or stagnated.bowden brown chaffey coughlan gaspar hal;l hartigan hyde jackson knobel krakouer limbach  moore pattison pettifer richardson roach rodan stafford tivendale and tuck.
imo and i know most ferals dont want to hear it is we will get worse before we get better as far as ladder position goes. our list structure is terrible our seniors are mostly average to poor and a few juniors have big q marks over their heads.
in 2 yrs wallace has taken us from terrible to just plain bad. its probably going to take him another 2 yrs to take us from bad to average.

I agree in principle, however it is not all gloomy. We have unerathed some geniune midfielders, found a back pocket and IMO Schulz is just about primed to become our number 1 forward. Tambling is also, with another pre-season ready to step into a midfield role.

The problem is our bloody defence. If we cant break even in the midifeld we get slaughtered. How many times does Ray Hall have to get a bag kicked on before Miller does something about it and recruits a geniune CHB or FB. Before we lay the boots into Ray, it;s not his fault becuase hes not a key defender. Hes a second string ruckman. But Richmond beleives they can get away with playing ruckman in KPP, (Stafford at full forward aganst Hawks was just ridiculous when u have Schulz kicking bags in the VFL)

The biggest dissapointment is Krakouer. This bloke has so much bloody ability, but shows flashes. When he gets the ball no one doubts he has the skills, he just either goes missing when it counts or dosent get it enough.

In terms of talls, forwards well Hughes and Schulz present 2 future FF's so we have some coverage. Limbach havent seen much of him to be honest. Simmonds will be around for another 3-6 years, Pattison although others have eluded he is suspect i believe he is a goer and will become a good footballer, not sure what position though and therein lies the problem.

This draft is the one, there is several quaility talls, ffs if we do not draft one with our first pick then something is horribly wrong.

I think Hartigan will improve, dont think he stagnated just unlucky with injury, hyde has been ok-good, rodan is finished, Tuck will benefit when we get some more depth in the midfield, Moore trade or delist, Jackson will prob get another year.

 

[Tango]

cant fill all our holes in 1 year, we found some gems with smalls, lets hope we do the same with talls this year
i have no doubt that if half decent talls are still available then we will take them
but if a gun small is there before a tall we will take him..... best player available everytime

IMO we should stock up our rookie list with KPP... let them take their time to develop and if they come on elevate them

 

[Ian4]

The one area where I know we haven't improved and we are the poorest in the comp at IMO is our skills whilst under pressure. We are absolutely the worst team in the comp for this.

while i agree are skills aren't that great under pressure, i believe we have improved a lot this year and we are not anymore the worst team in this area. we're beginning to shake off this reputation.