Draft history and finishing order of Geelong

[Col.E.Kurtz]

agree with much of what you say but wallace stuffed up big time in trying to get finals for the long term underachievers. 05 should have been a period of 8 or 9 delistings with 9 new faces and a full compliment of rookies. 3 nd picks was not rebuilding the list.and was not good enough.

i also believe wallace has been poor as far as list structure goes. no i will say terrible. i also believe wallace is responsible for all the skinny hbf types we have taken at the expense of areas that require longer development time. no ruckmen no kpp no inside types no big bodies.
yep i reckon im right when i say wallaces assesment of the list was poor.he overrated most of them he still does. he believed he could get to finals with a list full of duds talk about poor assesment sheesh.

I would argue that it's a bit of a myth that Wallace's love of HFF types has hurt us. WE aren't actually a team with great young HFF but missing talls, like the Bulldogs. Danny Myer's pick is hurting us not because of the type of player that he is, but simply because he's just not playing well. You are pretty much screwed anyway if you are relying on talls that you drafted only three or less years ago.

It is a disgrace when you think about the midfield Wallace inherited, Sugar is the only who was an established player in 04, no coach is going to be successful starting with such a poor midfield.

Committing list Armageddon in 05 with 7 to 8 delistings would have been interesting, but while it's still to early to judge the 05 draft it doesn't look great and it is questionable how much value we would have found in the late rounds.

 

[TigerMasochist]

thompsons first draft was 99 corey chapman ling enright and mooney. spriggs bray and foster were other early picks this yr.

And Wallace's first draft featured several promising young players, maybe not up to that standard but very few clubs get that lucky. Plus Geelong has had the best run of father/son picks ever.

2000 was a yr he mainly went for trades. they were murphy for 11 kingsley for 42. and white for picks 27 and 45. that yr they picked up josh hunt at pick 44.

He overestimated his list just as Wallace did. The similarities are actually fairly striking.

2001 bartel kelly gardiner johnson ablett playfair david johnson. and chambers were all taken in 2001. only 5 players of their premiership side were taken after 2001.
another couple of players who were there prior to 1999 were wojinski and the skipper harley. like i said thompson has never had to bottom out he had a good base to start with and in his first 3 yrs

He had a good base yet it still took him 8 years, so how long should it take for us coming off a poor base?

imo it will take another 5 yrs just to make a decent finals team. and as for 2000 thompson had some justification for thinking they were well on their way.he had a core of decent seniors though getting on he had an infusion of kids and they finished 5th on the ladder and were beaten in the first elimination final by 9 points.he obviously thought his core could go around another time he obviously identified the 2 key forward posts as a priority hence white and kingsley.
wallace has often said he was going for finals to reward the older hacks at the club knowing full well that this would probably hurt us in the long term.the type of player he has drafted the quick fixes the overestimating the older playersthe lack of a list strategy and management sheesh hes got lots wrong.
having said all this i think wallace a good coach i dont want to see him sacked but i do want to see him learn from his mistakes. nothing will get fixed by putting the head in the sand and pretending we have got it right so far.

Any chance he may have understood where the list was but needed to..........
Give the senior players on the list some hope for over their last couple of years .........
Give the board and management some breathing space from the angry masses ........
By throwing out the finals carrot ( which we may have managed without the injury hit )
he has gained a little space to restructure the list basics and get mileage into a new core.

 

[TigerFurious]

wallace after 3yrs and coming of a shocking base (few core players) still has 18 players on the list that he didnt have a hand in. his problem is many of the players he has taken will have to be turned over in time along with many of those 18 players.imo we are back of where thompson started at geelong in 2000.
our next 4 or 5 yrs is not about building a team for a premiership we are hard pressed atm to build a core of 25 30 players. 2011 may see us scrape into the finals yet again it may not.

Where did you get 18 players from claw???

I guess you are refering to: Richo, Bowden, Tuck, Hyde, Pettifer, Newman, Krak, Brown, Johnson, Tivendale, Jackson, Hartigen, Raines, Hall, *smile*, Knobel, Moore and Schulz.

Well it's not really fair to include Raines and Jackson because they are both only 21 and were only drafted one year before Wallace arrived. Better add Tuck to that list as well because he was drafted in 04' too. Take Hall, *smile* and Knobel off the list because they are retired now. Unfair to include Richo, Bowden and Newman because they are three of our better players and would get gigs in most teams.

Brown and Pettifer? Hardly hacks aren't they? We'll scratch them too.

So after some pruning we are left with Krak, Hyde, Johnson, Tivendale, Hartigen, Moore and Schulz. Now Krak was signed to a three year deal by Frawley before he left and Moore was actually promoted off the rookie list by Wallace in 04' but I'll still give you those.

Just thought I'd clear that up a bit.

 

[the claw]

wallace after 3yrs and coming of a shocking base (few core players) still has 18 players on the list that he didnt have a hand in. his problem is many of the players he has taken will have to be turned over in time along with many of those 18 players.imo we are back of where thompson started at geelong in 2000.
our next 4 or 5 yrs is not about building a team for a premiership we are hard pressed atm to build a core of 25 30 players. 2011 may see us scrape into the finals yet again it may not.

Where did you get 18 players from claw???

I guess you are refering to: Richo, Bowden, Tuck, Hyde, Pettifer, Newman, Krak, Brown, Johnson, Tivendale, Jackson, Hartigen, Raines, Hall, gaspar, Knobel, Moore and Schulz.

Well it's not really fair to include Raines and Jackson because they are both only 21 and were only drafted one year before Wallace arrived. Better add Tuck to that list as well because he was drafted in 04' too. Take Hall, gaspar and Knobel off the list because they are retired now. Unfair to include Richo, Bowden and Newman because they are three of our better players and would get gigs in most teams.

Brown and Pettifer? Hardly hacks aren't they? We'll scratch them too.

So after some pruning we are left with Krak, Hyde, Johnson, Tivendale, Hartigen, Moore and Schulz. Now Krak was signed to a three year deal by Frawley before he left and Moore was actually promoted off the rookie list by Wallace in 04' but I'll still give you those.

Just thought I'd clear that up a bit.

richo, bowden. brown. cogs. gaspar. hall. hartigan. hyde. johnson. krakouer. moore. newman. pettifer. raines. schulz. foley. tivendale. tuck. and the two you think it is unfair to include jackson and raines. thats 20 they were all at the club before wallace came at the end of 04 now thats not hard to understand is it. it does not include the 04 nd.

 

[the claw]

thompsons first draft was 99 corey chapman ling enright and mooney. spriggs bray and foster were other early picks this yr.

And Wallace's first draft featured several promising young players, maybe not up to that standard but very few clubs get that lucky. Plus Geelong has had the best run of father/son picks ever.

2000 was a yr he mainly went for trades. they were murphy for 11 kingsley for 42. and white for picks 27 and 45. that yr they picked up josh hunt at pick 44.

He overestimated his list just as Wallace did. The similarities are actually fairly striking.

2001 bartel kelly gardiner johnson ablett playfair david johnson. and chambers were all taken in 2001. only 5 players of their premiership side were taken after 2001.
another couple of players who were there prior to 1999 were wojinski and the skipper harley. like i said thompson has never had to bottom out he had a good base to start with and in his first 3 yrs

He had a good base yet it still took him 8 years, so how long should it take for us coming off a poor base?

imo it will take another 5 yrs just to make a decent finals team. and as for 2000 thompson had some justification for thinking they were well on their way.he had a core of decent seniors though getting on he had an infusion of kids and they finished 5th on the ladder and were beaten in the first elimination final by 9 points.he obviously thought his core could go around another time he obviously identified the 2 key forward posts as a priority hence white and kingsley.
wallace has often said he was going for finals to reward the older hacks at the club knowing full well that this would probably hurt us in the long term.the type of player he has drafted the quick fixes the overestimating the older playersthe lack of a list strategy and management sheesh hes got lots wrong.
having said all this i think wallace a good coach i dont want to see him sacked but i do want to see him learn from his mistakes. nothing will get fixed by putting the head in the sand and pretending we have got it right so far.

Any chance he may have understood where the list was but needed to..........
Give the senior players on the list some hope for over their last couple of years .........
Give the board and management some breathing space from the angry masses ........
By throwing out the finals carrot ( which we may have managed without the injury hit )
he has gained a little space to restructure the list basics and get mileage into a new core.

no he plainly got it wrong in all of the above. he was given carte blanche he was given 5 yrswhy wait for 3 yrs before you do what must be done.
most of the seniors should have been offered up for trade and told the hard facts of life.

he had 5 yrs and the supporters were expecting very low finishes to start with they didnt need breathing space. after getting it wrong for 3 yrs they probably do now.

the finals carrott was a pipe dream all it did was disillusion many of the ferals. honesty and ruthlessness was what was required not spin.

what list structure has he achieved they are all over the shop.

 

[schnipper]

i still think terry on the right track, if you cant see that you must be blind :hihi i wanted to point out what geelong went through to get where they are today. mainly it doesnt happen overnight. I'd rather have another 2-3 years of no finals than what the RfC have endured in my life time.

 

[the claw]

i still think terry on the right track, if you cant see that you must be blind :hihi i wanted to point out what geelong went through to get where they are today. mainly it doesnt happen overnight. I'd rather have another 2-3 years of no finals than what the RfC have endured in my life time.

i agree with you. what im saying is i think we are still getting it wrong.