End the Chol farce

Harry

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Mar 2, 2003
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Thought Nank struggled in the ruck against kruezer who isn't one of the bigger rucks. Chol struggled even more so. Would like to see Soldo do the heavy first ruck lifting while nank floats around the ground where needed. Especially against the eagles nank could plug holes in front of kennedy darling and McGovern
 
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Tigers of Old

Twitter: @Tigers_of_Old
Jul 26, 2004
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Just on this..seems plenty want Balta to come in as a replacement for Chol who's been playing forward & ruck.
However Balta is being developed as a key back at VFL level.
He showed mid year that he was getting lost & confused when being shuffled around all over the place.
Do we want to go back to that or give the lad some consistency?

If looking for a Chol replacement (who struggled in wet conditions), then I'd look at CCJ who's been playing very well in a similar role to Chol at VFL level.
However the braver move may be to stick with Chol despite his quiet output the past fortnight, & hope he does better on a dryer day.
 
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Tony Braxton-Hicks

It's Tiger Time!
Aug 10, 2004
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The Playboy Mansion
They've been shuffling him in the VFL the past 2 weeks, which suggests they're keeping him in mind for a role that isn't key back, and/or that they'd go with Garth for that defensive role anyway.
 
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Bullarto Tiger

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Mar 17, 2012
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Is going to be an interesting dilemma for MC to address.
Not convinced that Chol is going to be sufficiently dependable or competitive in September.
 

LeeToRainesToRoach

Get out Gillon
Jun 4, 2006
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However the braver move may be to stick with Chol despite his quiet output the past fortnight, & hope he does better on a dryer day.
Don't think we can take players into finals who aren't physical when they need to be. Chol has shown improvement but has work to do in this area. Two quiet games against bottom four opposition doesn't bode well for the tougher games to come.

In 2017 we brought in Graham and Townsend late, both hard players. Broad too, who is hard enough.

Yeah Balta lost form and deserved to go back to the 2's, but he's naturally aggressive and will keep coming at the opposition. He is a like-for-like replacement for Chol and gives us that point of difference that Soldo and CCJ (at this stage) don't.
 
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Brodders17

Tiger Legend
Mar 21, 2008
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Just on this..seems plenty want Balta to come in as a replacement for Chol who's been playing forward & ruck.
However Balta is being developed as a key back at VFL level.
He showed mid year that he was getting lost & confused when being shuffled around all over the place.
Do we want to go back to that or give the lad some consistency?

If looking for a Chol replacement (who struggled in wet conditions), then I'd look at CCJ who's been playing very well in a similar role to Chol at VFL level.
However the braver move may be to stick with Chol despite his quiet output the past fortnight, & hope he does better on a dryer day.
Its not ideal to use a 20yo to plug gaps, but i reckon he went back to see if he could be a cover if Grimes or Broad went down, rather than it being about him not being good enough as a fwd/ruck.
If he is our best option to play that back up role he should now finals are almost here.
 

The_General

Brain washing the kids, one stuffed toy at a time
May 4, 2004
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Don't think we can take players into finals who aren't physical when they need to be. Chol has shown improvement but has work to do in this area. Two quiet games against bottom four opposition doesn't bode well for the tougher games to come.

In 2017 we brought in Graham and Townsend late, both hard players. Broad too, who is hard enough.

Yeah Balta lost form and deserved to go back to the 2's, but he's naturally aggressive and will keep coming at the opposition. He is a like-for-like replacement for Chol and gives us that point of difference that Soldo and CCJ (at this stage) don't.
Whilst I don't disagree with the itnent of the first paragraph, I'd hardly say that Kruezer, Jones, Casboult etc are weak, non-physical players. Take a look at the match-ups Chol would have had across the game, and I think he was tested physically to some degree. I also think that he's not ready for finals however. I'd try see what our side looks like with Soldo and Nank this week against Wet Coke, and then if that doesn't work, bring Balta back for Brisbane.
 

Tigers of Old

Twitter: @Tigers_of_Old
Jul 26, 2004
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Don't think we can take players into finals who aren't physical when they need to be.
Chol had 5 tackles & was pretty competitive in the ruck & bringing the ball to ground. I think his lack of physicality is overstated in your post.
He just failed to get the footy & on the stats sheet that looks bad.
 
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TJsFurrow

T W E L V E
Jan 12, 2012
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Chol had 5 tackles & was pretty competitive in the ruck & bringing the ball to ground. I think his lack of physicality is overstated in your post.
He just failed to get the footy & on the stats sheet that looks bad.
I agree. I had a good look at Chol from high behind the goals on Sunday (it really does make a difference) and was surprised how physical he was at stoppages and general play. He also impacts with ball in hand. I like his willingness to take on tacklers to create an outside mismatch. He just can't seem to get his hands on the ball enough.
 
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tigerlove

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Aug 9, 2014
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Thought Nank struggled in the ruck against kruezer who isn't one of the bigger rucks. Chol struggled even more so. Would like to see Soldo do the heavy first ruck lifting while nank floats around the ground where needed. Especially against the eagles nank could plug holes in front of kennedy darling and McGovern
Kreuzer only had 4 efficient disposals for the whole game. He had 12 hits outs to advantage to 9 for Nanks. For the sake of 3 HOTA (and we won the clearances) risking Nanks and Soldo in the side does not create a lot of benefit imo. I think this would be a huge risk against West Coast. West Coast's strength is their height. We're not going to impede that with Soldo and Nanks. We need to hurt them in other ways and that's our quick ball movement and sticking to our pressure game plan. Every opposition team falters when we do that well. One thing Chol had a lot of was pressure act points, 48 of them. I would prefer to have one less ruck and an extra runner if we're going to take a risk otherwise I'd leave Chol for the moment with his instruction being to negate and pressure as much as possible. Hitouts for Carlton when Kruezer wasn't rucking was 6 hitouts and 1 hit out to advantage. When Nanks wasn't rucking it was 6 hitoutd and zero hitouts to advantage. Chol did his job if negating is his primary goal.
 
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LeeToRainesToRoach

Get out Gillon
Jun 4, 2006
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Chol had 5 tackles & was pretty competitive in the ruck & bringing the ball to ground. I think his lack of physicality is overstated in your post.
He just failed to get the footy & on the stats sheet that looks bad.
No doubt he is making an effort; it's a question of effectiveness. But the pressure is only going to crank up in finals where there are few weak links. He isn't going to be afforded the space to perform party tricks.

This isn't a shot at Chol, he was always going to be a project player. Majak Daw has been on the list for ten years for 50 games at North, at 195cm. There's no reason why Chol at 198cm should develop exponentially quicker. He's taken steps, he's team-oriented, he's only 22 and I'm not suggesting delisting him. I get that he's a bit of a crowd favourite and wish we could afford to play him. Just think others are ahead of him at this stage with a view to winning finals.

Two weeks ago it was fine, he was holding his spot. But he's had 8 touches in his last 10 quarters of football. I'm certain if it was CCJ or Miller and/or we were losing, we'd be calling for his head. It's easy to be seduced by the potential.
 
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tha8ball

Tiger Legend
Jan 6, 2005
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Chol is frustrating. I’m not sure he is the right player heading into a huge finals campaign... yet for some reason I get the feeling he is the exact type of player who could kick 3 or 4 in a final. Work that out.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Matchwinner
Dec 11, 2017
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Melbourne
Chol is frustrating. I’m not sure he is the right player heading into a huge finals campaign... yet for some reason I get the feeling he is the exact type of player who could kick 3 or 4 in a final. Work that out.
Easy to work out: Chol is frustrating!

His upside is great, his ability to be a passenger is the big worry. Not an easy decision as to whether we keep him in with a view to finals or drop him for the same reason.

DS
 

Don’t Argue

Tiger Rookie
Jun 22, 2019
323
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Easy to work out: Chol is frustrating!

His upside is great, his ability to be a passenger is the big worry. Not an easy decision as to whether we keep him in with a view to finals or drop him for the same reason.

DS
My thoughts are that he gets lost in traffic and is slow to react. Natural footballers can anticipate where the outlet ball is going and can apply pressure on the receiver. Chol either has to get to the ball carrier quicker and apply a tackle like Nanks can, or he needs to anticipate the next option. I’ve seen him in no mans land looking lethargic too many times but what he’s actually doing is ball watching because he can’t work out what is happening quick enough. That’s why I question his ability to play the 3rd forward because he’s not strong enough in the air, nor when the ball hits the ground in congestion.
He’s good on the lead and in open play but very worried about finals pressure and whether his game holds up
 
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The_Celebrant

Tiger Rookie
Aug 18, 2018
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malemelbournecelebrant.net.au
If I went with Balta over Chol, heading into finals, it would be because I felt Balta would never lack self-belief, whereas self-doubt could affect Chol if things weren't going too well.

Having said that, the MC may decide to play all of Chol, Balta and Nank against West Coast (if it's dry), with Balta replacing a smaller guy. Adding Balta doesn't mean sacrificing pace, it means enhancing aerial ability. The beauty of this week's match is we get the chance to practice something against a likely Grand Finalist.

Maybe the MC could rotate Chol and Balta through one 'wing' (anywhere between the arcs, really) with our guys being instructed to play through them when appropriate. Make the Eagles worry about us instead of vice versa.

Maybe experiment a couple of times with them both on the ground, on opposite wings, and have Lynch and Riewoldt lead high up the ground, dragging the likes of Barrass and McGovern with them, while Noah and Mabs fold back into the F50.
 

DavidSSS

Tiger Matchwinner
Dec 11, 2017
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My thoughts are that he gets lost in traffic and is slow to react. Natural footballers can anticipate where the outlet ball is going and can apply pressure on the receiver. Chol either has to get to the ball carrier quicker and apply a tackle like Nanks can, or he needs to anticipate the next option. I’ve seen him in no mans land looking lethargic too many times but what he’s actually doing is ball watching because he can’t work out what is happening quick enough. That’s why I question his ability to play the 3rd forward because he’s not strong enough in the air, nor when the ball hits the ground in congestion.
He’s good on the lead and in open play but very worried about finals pressure and whether his game holds up
And I think reading the play was one of our great strengths in late 2017. This is such a difficult issue as I'm sure they have been trying to teach him how to read Aussie Rules but it isn't something easy to teach. You see glimpses where he does get it but, as you say, you do see Chol lost at times. Experience always helps but the pointy end of the year beckons and no side can afford someone who is missing vital conests.

DS
 

tigerman

Nank should grow a mullet.
Mar 17, 2003
8,812
279
If Chol can't mark the ball when he is in the forward line, he needs to be able to bring the ball to ground. That's my main know on him, he can't judge the flight of the ball, and runs under the ball too much. Should go back to the VFL for mine.
 

UKTiger

Tiger Champion
Jul 11, 2010
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Shipston on Stour, UK
I reckon Choi's season peaked a couple of games ago and he has lost his edge enough for him to revert to him going missing and slow awareness at times when we need him. He has shown enough for us to keep him but not in the firsts again this season. We have CCJ, Balta who are equally as mobile and Soldo to rough up a opposing ruck if we think necessary.
 
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