English Premier League threads [Merged]

[Baloo]

Celtic made the semi a few times I think? Even the final once?

In the 90s when Leeds hit the big time with Kewell, Viduka, O'Leary and did well in the UCL they went nuts and bought expensive new players and it nearly bankrupted them, they flopped, relegated, and just made it back to the top level after 25 years or so out in the lower leagues. That was mismanagement of course, but it's high stakes either way.

Leeds' problem then was that they bought average players turning them into expensive players. That one CL Semi appearance ruined the club. They spent everything they had, and didn't have, chasing the $ the CL gives clubs. I'm surprised Ridsdale wasn't hanged in City Square

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Leeds' problem then was that they bought average players turning them into expensive players. That one CL Semi appearance ruined the club. They spent everything they had, and didn't have, chasing the $ the CL gives clubs. I'm surprised Ridsdale wasn't hanged in City Square

Correlates strongly with the earlier points Ian and myself were discussing, comparing and contrasting the ownership structure and differences in administration philosophy between football in Germany and England.

 

[taztiger4]

U follow someone close to the Midlands or just they're shitty old Villa? Asking for a mate!!

No mate, I'm a red & have been since we beat Newcastle 3 zip in the 74 FA cup final

 

[mrposhman]

That's a great get, Notts Forest Didn't mind the old Peter Withe up front then being a striker myself, lol. Also Northampton, Division Two then, knocking Liverpool out of the Carling Cup - at Anfield - 69 places in the league's difference!!

Liverpool have had a few of those. I'd been to a couple of Peterborough Utd games (grew up there) but went to a game in 1991 as a primary schoolkid. Went in as a LIverpool fan, came out a Posh fan and have never looked back. Check out the quality in that Liverpool lineup. Posh were in whats League 2 now.

Matchdetails from Peterborough United - Liverpool played on Tuesday 3 December 1991 - LFChistory - Stats galore for Liverpool FC!

LFChistory.net is all about the history of Liverpool FC. We have got all the match results from 1892 to today along with great player profiles

www.lfchistory.net

 

[mrposhman]

Yep, listening to Gary Neville attack the Glazer's was something I thought I'd never see, he said he kept his mouth quiet for years, but he can't no more. And even though I'm a Liverpool fan, I still respect the other clubs culture and histories, I don't have to like them on the park, but the history of all the sports codes I follow I'm massively into, and to hear him say Old Trafford is a run-down mire. The steel is falling down in some parts of the stadium, the Glazer's have sucked every cent out of the club and left the facilities for us, the supporters decading away.

As someone who had dream's to attend a mid-week Euro night at Old Trafford, see a rivalry game between us both on a weekend, it was sad, I get the feeling he's going to pass that cost onto the next owner, or do some new crazy ponzi scheme everyone else will fund.

I suspect what you've alluded to in your last paragraph is actually what the issue is. A couple of insanely leveraged Spanish clubs, 4 premier clubs essentially owned by US businesses (I know Spurs is essentially an english owner but operates it like the yanks do) and 2 that are run as play things. I am 99.9% certain that the team Perez references as not being that into it was either Chelsea or City.

My belief is the American owners wanted to inflate the values of their clubs with guaranteed increases in revenues in order to flog them off. This was their best way to maximise valuations. None of this IMO was anything to do with football and more to do with club valuations and "saving" the spanish clubs.

BTW I know Utd are heavily indebted too, but its serviceable. I'm not sure you can say the same about the spanish clubs, the level of debt means they can no longer compete with player acquisition like they used to.

 

[Ian4]

Just hypothisising here as an observation Ian.

Being in Tasmania, I've never really been able to get into the A-League. The kind of manufactured franchised feel of the league just means I haven't been able to look at it as more than just a casual observer. Just doesn't have that feel of being deeply connected to the community fabric. Perhaps it's because my own home, that I feel great connection of place to, wasn't included. Or maybe others actually in areas with teams feel the same as me.....I honestly don't know. Melbourne Victory and more recently Western United (meh...what an aimlessly abstract name that doesn't really ooze with connectedness to any area) have tried to engage a bit in the TAS, but it just feels a bit tokenistic.

And it is a sport with a huge grass roots. Participation in the junior ranks is strong. But one just doesn't feel the interconnectedness between this level, through the adult community clubs to the A-League. A-League just feels a bit ring fenced and hence doesn't capture the imagination of the masses at the bottom of the pyramid. Not sure if I am being a bit harsh, or whether it will just take time (perhaps decades) for this to happen as an organic kind of evolution.

Personally, I took more interest when one of the local clubs around my area (fully Amateur) had an unexpectedly good run in the FFA cup, up against larger semi-professional clubs from Melbourne and Sydney (the likes of the old Melbourne and Sydney Croatia - or whatever they are called now).

interesting take. being a "skip" i couldn't connect with the old NSL, but I connected with Victory from day 1.

I believe the franchise model has worked initially. But after the initial highs of the early years, there was always gonna be some correction of that. You see it in every sport (just look at the BBL).

But the effort to turn the high participation rates into hardcore fans has been a struggle so far. But that not to say things won’t change. Organic growth isn’t an overnight thing and could take 1-2 generations. I believe the bigger problem is converting the Eurosnobs into following the A-League. That is what’s hurting us more than anything IMO.

But I agree in that I don’t see the franchise model being the future except perhaps in Canberra and Tasmania. With 2 divisions and 30 teams, we’re gonna see the return of teams such as South Melbourne and Wollongong Wolves, without a doubt.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

interesting take. being a "skip" i couldn't connect with the old NSL, but I connected with Victory from day 1.

I believe the franchise model has worked initially. But after the initial highs of the early years, there was always gonna be some correction of that. You see it in every sport (just look at the BBL).

But the effort to turn the high participation rates into hardcore fans has been a struggle so far. But that not to say things won’t change. Organic growth isn’t an overnight thing and could take 1-2 generations. I believe the bigger problem is converting the Eurosnobs into following the A-League. That is what’s hurting us more than anything IMO.

But I agree in that I don’t see the franchise model being the future except perhaps in Canberra and Tasmania. With 2 divisions and 30 teams, we’re gonna see the return of teams such as South Melbourne and Wollongong Wolves, without a doubt.

Yes agree with you on the ethnicised element of the old NSL also being a major weakness. I don't think any of the clubs competing out of Melbourne were general community clubs outside of the ethnicised kind of set up were they?

Wollongong, Newcastle, Brisbane etc were kind of exceptions to that rule I suppose in the old NSL.

 

[Streak]

Celtic made the semi a few times I think? Even the final once?

They won it in 1967, the first British team to do so.

 

[Baloo]

Yes agree with you on the ethnicised element of the old NSL also being a major weakness. I don't think any of the clubs competing out of Melbourne were general community clubs outside of the ethnicised kind of set up were they?

Wollongong, Newcastle, Brisbane etc were kind of exceptions to that rule I suppose in the old NSL.

Carlton SC wasn't ethnic based, but it was affiliated with the AFL club so that kept most non-Carlton supporters away from them.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

Carlton SC wasn't ethnic based, but it was affiliated with the AFL club so that kept most non-Carlton supporters away from them.

Yes, I wouldn't be keen. As a Richmond man, it would be equivalent to swallowing razor blades to swallow one's pride and support them.

 

[AngryAnt]

As someone that has followed to sport most of my life and remembers the excitement when Soccer Australia launched the NSL in 1977, trust me, you don't know what real incompetence looks like. Nor are we anywhere near rock bottom.

Incompetence is definitely a factor in the current situation, but I have no confidence in the state owners or the FA being any better.

 

[Brodders17]

interesting take. being a "skip" i couldn't connect with the old NSL, but I connected with Victory from day 1.

I believe the franchise model has worked initially. But after the initial highs of the early years, there was always gonna be some correction of that. You see it in every sport (just look at the BBL).

But the effort to turn the high participation rates into hardcore fans has been a struggle so far. But that not to say things won’t change. Organic growth isn’t an overnight thing and could take 1-2 generations. I believe the bigger problem is converting the Eurosnobs into following the A-League. That is what’s hurting us more than anything IMO.

But I agree in that I don’t see the franchise model being the future except perhaps in Canberra and Tasmania. With 2 divisions and 30 teams, we’re gonna see the return of teams such as South Melbourne and Wollongong Wolves, without a doubt.

your earlier post about the lack of promotion is true. i have an interest in the A-league, i have been to a couple of games this year, and have most seasons, but this year unless i actively check, i dont know when games are on. sometimes i see results in the media about a game i didnt know was being played.

also, my kids play soccer. I reckon the clubs are failing to connect with junior clubs- they give out freebie tickets left, right and centre, and flags etc, but dont appear to spend any time actually trying to engage with kids, and lure them to games to follow players. if a couple of starters went to a local club and engaged with kids, then gave free tickets, the kids, and their family, are more likely to start a longer term connection. i dont see that happening at the moment.

 

[Baloo]

One advantage FFA have now over all the other governing bodies is the EA Sports FIFA franchise. Kids are playing soccer online like never before. They know the teams, the players, understand tactics.

They need to find a way to capitalise on that captive audience.

 

[Streak]

One advantage FFA have now over all the other governing bodies is the EA Sports FIFA franchise. Kids are playing soccer online like never before. They know the teams, the players, understand tactics.

They need to find a way to capitalise on that captive audience.

Couldn't agree more Baloo.

My son is a very promising basketballer. When he first took up the game, his coach and team mates, and his parents, were astounded at how natural he seemed to be. His coach didn't actually believe him when he said he had never played the game before. Indeed, in his first season his club automatically graded him to their B Division team in his age group on the basis that he had never played. He absolutely destroyed the comp at that level. He has been in the state development squad for the last 6 years.

My wife and I never played or even had an interest in the game, and at the time he had no sibilings, cousins or friends nearby who could have taught him the rules and the basic tactics. If he ever asked me for advice, I could only relate it to the sports I was experienced with, footy and soccer. I still know very little about the game.

My point is, until he joined a competition he was self taught. We did have a basketball ring in the back yard which he loved to use, but that was it.

So where does this come from? My son puts it down to playing the NBA 2K franchise of games on his xbox. And I honestly think he is totally right.

So from where I sit, Football administrators in Australia have to look at the gift these very realistic video games are providing in terms of raising kids interest levels and knowledge in the game, and turn it into numbers playing the game for real.

My son only took up basketball after being 'talent spotted' by his mates at school who were already playing the game. No one in basketball Australia or similar can take credit for it.

 

[mrposhman]

your earlier post about the lack of promotion is true. i have an interest in the A-league, i have been to a couple of games this year, and have most seasons, but this year unless i actively check, i dont know when games are on. sometimes i see results in the media about a game i didnt know was being played.

also, my kids play soccer. I reckon the clubs are failing to connect with junior clubs- they give out freebie tickets left, right and centre, and flags etc, but dont appear to spend any time actually trying to engage with kids, and lure them to games to follow players. if a couple of starters went to a local club and engaged with kids, then gave free tickets, the kids, and their family, are more likely to start a longer term connection. i dont see that happening at the moment.

I think there is a lot that can be done with the community but there is also an element of similar things that affect smaller clubs in the UK impacting on the A league.

I come from a good size city (Peterborough - probably approaching 150k people now) yet we can not get people to go and watch. The club used to (when I lived there, they may still do now) a lot of work with schools in the community and that was 1 of the things that initially got me interested in them at around 8-10 years old.

The issues that Peterborough find with getting crowds is that Peterborough is a commuter town from London (and heres the bit that aligns with the A league) is that people already have a team that they support when they move to Peterborough. As a guide a similar size city in the UK is Wolverhampton and we see how big crowds they get.

I don't think the issue for the A league is quite the same, its similar (and I think Ian has alluded to this) as people already have that allegiance with European teams, BUT they play at a different time so I suspect people can be drawn into the A league. It feels more likely too as it seems that secondary team supporting seems acceptable here (its alien in the UK, I would NEVER be asked who my premier league team was in the UK but get asked it all the time here when I say I support Peterborough).

I do agree with you though that community engagement is huge. When I was a kid there were lots of "football training days" with the players at the time, there is no reason that Post Covid this sort of community engagement wouldn't be possible with the local teams here.

 

[Streak]

If Arsenal want to join any Super League, they need a new Goalie.

That mess up by Leno against Everton was pathetic.

 

[Redford]

^##%*%{** bloody lowly Burnley ! Every bloody time...does my head in.

%^^^# garbage Wolves ! Disgraceful performance. Might spell the end of Nuno.

 

[glantone]

hahaha... for lesser teams it's such a random and ultimately infuriating game. Easy run home for the dingles though....bustids.

 

[AngryAnt]

If Arsenal want to join any Super League, they need a new Goalie.

That mess up by Leno against Everton was pathetic.

They've got Matty Ryan in the squad now. Although, I don't think he's a great keeper either.

 

[Ian4]

your earlier post about the lack of promotion is true. i have an interest in the A-league, i have been to a couple of games this year, and have most seasons, but this year unless i actively check, i dont know when games are on. sometimes i see results in the media about a game i didnt know was being played.

also, my kids play soccer. I reckon the clubs are failing to connect with junior clubs- they give out freebie tickets left, right and centre, and flags etc, but dont appear to spend any time actually trying to engage with kids, and lure them to games to follow players. if a couple of starters went to a local club and engaged with kids, then gave free tickets, the kids, and their family, are more likely to start a longer term connection. i dont see that happening at the moment.

This year has been tricky because the outbreak in Sydney over Xmas turned the fixture on its head. The fixture I have on my fridge compared to what has actually been played... We are playing Sydney in Sydney tonight and I didn't even know til last week. The communication from the AL has been appalling.

Anyway, I am confident things will change next season. We will know more in the next 2-3 weeks when the new TV rights is announced. Everything will fall into place after that