Essendon = Entitlement | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Essendon = Entitlement

The Big Richo

Tiger Superstar
Aug 19, 2010
1,340
2,267
The home of Dusty
Guilty as sin, sounds like you are trying to make excuses for a mate, I usually respect what you have to say on here weather I agree or not, but on the topic of responsability and leadership you are way off the planet.

I've got no mates in this. So what is it exactly you are critical of Hird for not doing?
 

deedee

Tiger Matchwinner
Sep 12, 2011
691
689
I've got no mates in this. So what is it exactly you are critical of Hird for not doing?
Ok, I will refer back to my life experiences, Commander of a ship (= club coach) he is responsible and held to account for everyone doing there job correctly, he does not select his crew, that is done from above, however the commander is responsible for the qualifacations and competency of that crew, the ships commander, as the leader of the team has sole responsibility for who does what, and how and when. Any major stuff ups on his watch he is held accountable for as a failing of leadership, will be removed and replaced. Can you really not see As Hird is in command of this ship (= team) his leadership is found lacking in allowing what went on, with no checks and balances to ensure everthing was done in a legal and professorial manner, now if he raised any concerns of what was going on with his superiors then that does change the chain of responsibility, I am yet to hear or read anything that showed those concerns. = a total failing of leadership.
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Superstar
Aug 19, 2010
1,340
2,267
The home of Dusty
Ok, I will refer back to my life experiences, Commander of a ship (= club coach) he is responsible and held to account for everyone doing there job correctly, he does not select his crew, that is done from above, however the commander is responsible for the qualifacations and competency of that crew, the ships commander, as the leader of the team has sole responsibility for who does what, and how and when. Any major stuff ups on his watch he is held accountable for as a failing of leadership, will be removed and replaced. Can you really not see As Hird is in command of this ship (= team) his leadership is found lacking in allowing what went on, with no checks and balances to ensure everthing was done in a legal and professorial manner, now if he raised any concerns of what was going on with his superiors then that does change the chain of responsibility, I am yet to hear or read anything that showed those concerns. = a total failing of leadership.

The problem with your analogy is Hird is not the Captain of the Ship, in terms of paid employees, he's more like fourth or fifth in charge with several other people.
 
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Cooper O'Reilly

Tiger Rookie
Mar 5, 2021
267
693
The problem with your analogy is Hird is not the Captain of the Ship, in terms of paid employees, he's more like fourth or fifth in charge with several other people.
Seriously you couldn’t follow that analogy, I think you are purposely being a jerk now.

DeeDee made the role of the captain perfectly clear as was the chain of command.

Your attitude in some of your posts really hisses me off sometimes
 

Mycotchinrules

Tiger Superstar
Mar 17, 2014
1,354
3,480
The problem with your analogy is Hird is not the Captain of the Ship, in terms of paid employees, he's more like fourth or fifth in charge with several other people.
So Hird just turns a blind eye to what's happening to his entire playing group? (Zaharakis excepted)

Turns a blind eye to the club doctor Bruce Reid who was there his entire playing career?

Turns a blind eye to offsite injections?

Please. Any decent coach/human would have intervened.

He didn't.
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Superstar
Aug 19, 2010
1,340
2,267
The home of Dusty
Seriously you couldn’t follow that analogy, I think you are purposely being a jerk now.

DeeDee made the role of the captain perfectly clear as was the chain of command.

Your attitude in some of your posts really hisses me off sometimes
Yeah yeah, Hird is just the cabin boy :ROFLMAO:

You do realise a senior coach isn't a member of senior management of a football club? That James Hird has a boss, who in this instance is the football manager Paul Hamilton?

And that the head of high performance (or whatever Robinson's title was) is an equivalent employee to Hird and also reports to the football manager? And manages Dank?

And that the CEO, Ian Robson, the actual Captain of the ship manages Hamilton? And that is before you even get to the board.

All of these people are on deck all the time in the footy season, they aren't based on land while the ship is at sea.

The image you have of a senior coach dominating the club and barking demands at all and sundry is from another era.

So Hird just turns a blind eye to what's happening to his entire playing group? (Zaharakis excepted)

Turns a blind eye to the club doctor Bruce Reid who was there his entire playing career?

Turns a blind eye to offsite injections?

Please. Any decent coach/human would have intervened.

He didn't.

Hird thinks his players are receiving cutting edge sports science, conducted by an expert, that is compliant with WADA and ASADA codes and will maximise their performance so what exactly is he turning a blind eye to?

I've addressed the Dr scenario up above.

Why would he question off-site injections if an expert told him they were required? Hird isn't medically trained, why would he argue if Dank says to ensure hygiene standards are met it needs to be done in a clinic? It's not like going off-site for a medical procedure is uncommon practice.

I'd still love to hear what the suggestion is that Hird should have done to intervene? Was he supposed to investigate Dank and check his qualifications? Or was he supposed to find out which substances were being used and investigate them to determine if they are appropriate? And clear them all with ASADA and WADA? Is the expectation that the senior coach needs to check the work of every employee who deals with his players?
 
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Mycotchinrules

Tiger Superstar
Mar 17, 2014
1,354
3,480
You do realise a senior coach isn't a member of senior management of a football club? That James Hird has a boss, who in this instance is the football manager Paul Hamilton?

And that the head of high performance (or whatever Robinson's title was) is an equivalent employee to Hird and also reports to the football manager? And manages Dank?

And that the CEO, Ian Robson, the actual Captain of the ship manages Hamilton? And that is before you even get to the board.

All of these people are on deck all the time in the footy season, they aren't based on land while the ship is at sea.

The image you have of a senior coach dominating the club and barking demands at all and sundry is from another era.



Hird thinks his players are receiving cutting edge sports science, conducted by an expert, that is compliant with WADA and ASADA codes and will maximise their performance so what exactly is he turning a blind eye to?

I've addressed the Dr scenario up above.

Why would he question off-site injections if an expert told him they were required? Hird isn't medically trained, why would he argue if Dank says to ensure hygiene standards are met it needs to be done in a clinic? It's not like going off-site for a medical procedure is uncommon practice.

I'd still love to hear what the suggestion is that Hird should have done to intervene? Was he supposed to investigate Dank and check his qualifications? Or was he supposed to find out which substances were being used and investigate them to determine if they are appropriate? And clear them all with ASADA and WADA? Is the expectation that the senior coach needs to check the work of every employee who deals with his players?

You do realise a senior coach isn't a member of senior management of a football club? That James Hird has a boss, who in this instance is the football manager Paul Hamilton?

And that the head of high performance (or whatever Robinson's title was) is an equivalent employee to Hird and also reports to the football manager? And manages Dank?

And that the CEO, Ian Robson, the actual Captain of the ship manages Hamilton? And that is before you even get to the board.

All of these people are on deck all the time in the footy season, they aren't based on land while the ship is at sea.

The image you have of a senior coach dominating the club and barking demands at all and sundry is from another era.



Hird thinks his players are receiving cutting edge sports science, conducted by an expert, that is compliant with WADA and ASADA codes and will maximise their performance so what exactly is he turning a blind eye to?

I've addressed the Dr scenario up above.

Why would he question off-site injections if an expert told him they were required? Hird isn't medically trained, why would he argue if Dank says to ensure hygiene standards are met it needs to be done in a clinic? It's not like going off-site for a medical procedure is uncommon practice.

I'd still love to hear what the suggestion is that Hird should have done to intervene? Was he supposed to investigate Dank and check his qualifications? Or was he supposed to find out which substances were being used and investigate them to determine if they are appropriate? And clear them all with ASADA and WADA? Is the expectation that the senior coach needs to check the work of every employee who deals with his players?
Nah Richo, nobody is suggesting Hird should have investigated or intervened while the club he was coaching was involved in the biggest doping scandal in Australian sport.

What posters ARE suggesting is that through Hird's involvement earlier in his career with Shane Charter and Steven Dank, he knew exactly what was going on with his playing group.
 
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deedee

Tiger Matchwinner
Sep 12, 2011
691
689
The problem with your analogy is Hird is not the Captain of the Ship, in terms of paid employees, he's more like fourth or fifth in charge with several other people.
And the captain of a ship is not the head of the navy, he is the head of his team on that ship, last comment by me, you have your head in the sand,.
 
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The Big Richo

Tiger Superstar
Aug 19, 2010
1,340
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The home of Dusty
What posters ARE suggesting is that through Hird's involvement earlier in his career with Shane Charter and Steven Dank, he knew exactly what was going on with his playing group.

That's a different angle for sure. Personally I'd be very surprised if that was the case, mainly because I don't even think Dank understood exactly what he was doing.

I have a lot more experience in these areas than the average person on the street and I really struggled to get my head around what they did and some of the substances they were apparently administering. It really was a weird and wacky program.

I doubt Hird would have understood a word of it apart from I'll make your players better. All speculation of course.

And the captain of a ship is not the head of the navy, he is the head of his team on that ship, last comment by me, you have your head in the sand,.

Yeah, apologies, I'm not as sharp as I once was and I'm not understanding the navy analogy I don't think.
 

taztiger4

Shovelheads- Keeping hipsters off Harley's
Jul 13, 2005
7,382
5,517
Richmond Victoria
Nah Richo, nobody is suggesting Hird should have investigated or intervened while the club he was coaching was involved in the biggest doping scandal in Australian sport.

What posters ARE suggesting is that through Hird's involvement earlier in his career with Shane Charter and Steven Dank, he knew exactly what was going on with his playing group.
well they certainly exchanged lots of texts, so old golden boy was certainly in the loop.

Oh, & was it the Tird who bad mouthed Doc Reid & said he'd be told old to understand (or words to that effect)
 
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AngryAnt

Tiger Legend
Nov 25, 2004
25,840
12,736
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He’s a quick learner then. He seemed to know exactly what he was doing after the *smile* hit the fan. Missing records, threats to sue etc

I think RichoMan has made some excellent points in this thread but to argue Dank was well-meaning and just ignorant is absurd given all the evidence.
 
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Tigers of Old

Proud of our Club.
Jul 26, 2004
74,119
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www.redbubble.com
We go on about Hird..
However how's Channel 7's nerve putting up jobe Watson in the plum special comments position in the finals.:rolleyes:
Not only is Jobe a convicted drug cheat who lost his Brownlow because of it but he's also a TERRIBLE commentator who can barely put a sentence together & doesn't have an original thought in his head.
It's an absolute insult to football fans that jobe gets that prime opportunity purely due to nepotism. Ridiculous.
 
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artball

labels are for canned food
Jul 30, 2013
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mainly because I don't even think Dank understood exactly what he was doing.
...some of the substances they were apparently administering. It really was a weird and wacky program.
c'mon TBR. There's a thing called 'Research' and that's what people like Dank do, and get paid to do...
he was well versed on performance enhancing and the like, he wasn't experimenting ..
because it was new to the AFL doesn't mean it was strange. they knew exactly what was going on
and not just Dank
 
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jimbob

Tiger Superstar
Jul 20, 2008
1,755
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Traralgon
well they certainly exchanged lots of texts, so old golden boy was certainly in the loop.

Oh, & was it the Tird who bad mouthed Doc Reid & said he'd be told old to understand (or words to that effect)
Not a lot of discussion around those texts which appeared to have a business angle to them. As in a business opportunity to follow based on the muscle mass increase. Which Hirdy would have been keen to explore no doubt. Not too bad to use your team as guinea pigs to make a buck. After all he was probably struggling a bit after a long highly paid career as a player, was coaching for a pittance no doubt, bit of beer money for his column that Robbo wrote for him, jobs in the corporate world where he just swanned around and was paid because he was James Hird. His property investments were probably only going up 10% pa as well. Did i mention his wife was a lawyer?

If i remember correctly Zaharakis was on the outer with Hird a bit because he refused to go through the injections.

The lack of records has always been a beauty. I have been loathe to put this on here as it is second hand but a police mate said that when the police were drawn in to the investigation and visited Windy Hill it was like “the north pole”. With the amount of shredded paper flying around.

No sympathy for King James. None at all.
 
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Redford

Tiger Legend
Dec 18, 2002
27,566
16,527
Tel Aviv
We go on about Hird..
However how's Channel 7's nerve putting up jobe Watson in the plum special comments position in the finals.:rolleyes:
Not only is Jobe a convicted drug cheat who lost his Brownlow because of it but he's also a TERRIBLE commentator who can barely put a sentence together & doesn't have an original thought in his head.
It's an absolute insult to football fans that jobe gets that prime opportunity purely due to nepotism. Ridiculous.
Listening to him last night was unbearable. Splutters out one obvious statement after another eg with the first 4 goals of the game “The Swans are getting on top here early.”
 
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RoarEmotion

Tiger Champion
Aug 20, 2005
2,945
3,311
It’s laughable how bad a commentator he is and doesn’t get asked to move on. Guys commentating the vfl so much better.
 
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