FIFA World Cup 22 | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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FIFA World Cup 22

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
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Serbia just showed what happens when you push further forward.

1st half they defended very well, very compact, chased and harassed. They go behind and they push that line higher up the pitch and if we are being realistic, Brazil could have scored 5 or 6 in that 2nd half. 2 against the woodwork, keeper made 2 or 3 good saves.

Its all well and good to claim that pushing up would have limited what France would have done, but that assumes they don't have the quality of player to deal with that closer attention. Simple fact is they do.

BTW comparing France v Australia this year to 4 years ago is silly. The Australia team 4 years ago was better than this current team. Not a surprise that they lost by more.

Serious question here, how many goals did you expect to lose to France by before the game? I would have said 3, which is what happened.
You're still missing the point. Australian teams were known to be a tough physical match up that made up for their lack of skill with constant pressure and physicality.

This team instead conceded the game before it stepped onto the park.

That's a valid comparison to 4, 8, 12 and 16 years ago.
 
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mrposhman

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Oct 6, 2013
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You're still missing the point. Australian teams were known to be a tough physical match up that made up for their lack of skill with constant pressure and physicality.

This team instead conceded the game before it stepped onto the park.

That's a valid comparison to 4, 8, 12 and 16 years ago.

I get what you are saying, and I agree in part. Yes they potentially could have been a bit more physical but even with that things have been changing. I was even reading an article about the FA Cup, about whether it had lost its magic and part of that was around lesser quality teams taking it up to the bigger teams, and usually to do that its down to physicality but with the changes football has gone over the last decade, physicality continues to go out of the game and that "tactic" is less and less impactful these days.

Physicality is a maybe.

With regard to "constant pressure", its a nice statement, but how do you do that specifically in this instant? Do you push the entire defensive line up the field (and expose the lack of pace in the Australia defence with 2 of the quickest wingers in the game?), or do you push the wingers up into a more offensive position to close down space for the full backs, defensive midfielders, but remove that tool to aid the full backs again with regard to the French's quality in wide areas.

Its not just shouting pressure, pressure, pressure that will make a difference, with every change in your gameplan you may gain something (ie. maybe rush the defenders with the ball a little, or the defensive midfielders) but with every potential reward, you also expose yourself to a risk, which would be exposing the lack of quality in the full back positions (Atkinson is early into his career, plays for a mid SPL team, and supposed to cope with a top 5 forward in the game, ditto for Behich except for the early into his career point) and the lack of pace throughout the defence.

Theres no guarantee this would have resulted in anything better but also could have resulted in something worse,

Whilst you don't agree, I think the strategy was to try and starve Dembele and Mbappe of space and time but playing the wingers defensively, which meant surrendering some of that ability to press further up the field, as the players needed to do that are the ones then tied up with providing assistance to the full backs.

I'm not missing your point, I just see it as a simplistic approach to how you think the game should have been played. I've detailed how I think the plan was designed and understand it, could the players have been a bit more physical, potentially, but I'm not sure this "constant pressure" focus that you have would have worked at all against the French and IMO would probably have exposed some of the weakest areas of the Australia team.
 

Baloo

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Nov 8, 2005
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We lost 4-1. Would rather have gone down 4-1 fighting rather going down 4-1 cowering in our back half.

Arnold's goal here is to limit the damage so that the FFA can reappoint him as coach. He should never have been given the job and should have been sacked when we had to go through the playoffs to qualify.

My views aren't based on the 1 match, it's based on how the Aussie team have become timid under Arnold's stewardship.
 
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mrposhman

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Oct 6, 2013
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We lost 4-1. Would rather have gone down 4-1 fighting rather going down 4-1 cowering in our back half.

Arnold's goal here is to limit the damage so that the FFA can reappoint him as coach. He should never have been given the job and should have been sacked when we had to go through the playoffs to qualify.

My views aren't based on the 1 match, it's based on how the Aussie team have become timid under Arnold's stewardship.

If you can guarantee that it would be the same result I'd agree with you but you can't say that, which is what I've been saying throughout on here. People saying "we'd have been better if we'd done this or that", don't know for sure that would have been the case. IMO it probably would have resulted in a worse outcome.

Sure you say you'd rather gone down 4-1 fighting, what if it was 6-1 or 7-1 (like what happened to Iran and Costa Rica, and could have happened to Serbia this morning)? Would you still have said, good job, at least we tried?

I get there is frustration with Arnold and his tactics, and the next 2 games will really dictate how he and the team are perceived after this world cup. As this is a league format, you work out what the most likely scenario is to qualify. A lot of world cup groups (particularly 2nd place) is fought out by teams on 4 points. There are the occasional ones on 3 or even 2 points, but generally they are fought out by teams on 4, either outright on 4 or with goal difference deciding it. So as I've been saying, the plan IMO would have been to limit the damage against France to 2 or 3 goals. The target a win vs Tunisia, and then assess for Denmark, a draw could be enough (but not if your goal difference blows out to 5 or 6 after game 1).

If its a knock out game, I'm fully with you, whats the point in trying to stumble your way through, but this is a league format and opening the weakest areas of your team (full backs) to probably the biggest strength of the opposition (the wings) is quite frankly crazy talk, which is why both Goodwin and Leckie played as deep as they did, which ensured that the forward press was not evident at all.

The proof will be in the pudding over the next 2 games. Don't attack as they should against Tunisia then the white flag has been put up the flagpole and Arnold should leave and give someone else a go. If they attack, then who knows. Maybe they win, maybe they lose, but they should be giving themselves the best chance of group progression and that would always have been targeting a win against Tunisia.
 

Baloo

Delisted Free Agent
Nov 8, 2005
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Sorry posh, disagree with most of what you posted but there's no point continuing. It's too depressing.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
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You'd be surprised their top league has the 6th most attendance average per game in Europe. Young Boys Bern come in with the 9th highest crowd average from all those Euro leagues as well.

The Croatians 4,0000 average crowd, Hajduk Split 16,000. Switzerland major league goes at 13,000 average crowd and Young Boys Bern goes at nearly 29,000.

I think they're probably underestimated because they're in the middle of a few countries.

But those countries are probably part of that mixture of the Swiss makeup that makes them pretty good.

To their left is France, below them is Italy, Austria to the right and above them is Germany. You can't go wrong surrounded by them you'd hope.

Their ethno-linguistic speaking/background is broken up something like 62% speak a Swiss-German dialect, there's a Swiss-French one at 23% and there's Swiss-Italians at 8%. The only countries in Europe they're missing out for big football history are the Spanish and the Netherlands (Okay, england too man ;)).

They had a big wave of Italians in the early 20th century, stopped by the wars. Kick started again the last few years mainly by English, Portuguese, Serbs, Croatians and Spanish!! Throw in a Brazilian or two and you've got a pretty good mix man :eyes

We've got no mixtures around our borders except penguins, whales, sharks and seals!! :LOL:
I kind of think of the Scandinavian sides in a similar vein. The game is definitely among the preeminent sports there. But does not garner quite the same obsession as countries where it is an inherent part of life.

Yet they constantly perform at the top level. Not necessarily winning major trophies (although Denmark did win Euro in the 90s), but regularly qualifying and far from rare that they go deep into tournaments.

Sweden and Denmark particularly. That said, they don’t appear to have quite the consistency of Switzerland over multi generations.

My comment wasn’t so much regarding crowd numbers. Always kept half an eye on clubs such as Young Boys (I really enjoyed my time in Bern, lovely little city) and Grasshoppers a decade or so back and how they performed at European level. So yes, a VERY solid league. It was more that in every day life it doesn’t quite seem a way of life on the street, as you get in the likes of Croatia.

I contrast Scotland, a similar sized country to Switzerland and the Scandinavians. And seemingly has a massive obsession with the game and much heritage. But have never performed at the consistency or level of these others. Although, a large portion of the Scots do stay at home to play, whereas the Swiss and Scandis play a lot in Germany, France, Netherlands and Italy. So a different education in the game. But also must be a lot to do with what happens in the formative years of player development.

As much as it might sound cliche. The Swiss and Scandis appear very well organised and very analytical and businesslike about it. Hence, get the most out of the talent at their disposal.
 
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marella jube

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Jul 27, 2004
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I mostly agree with Baloo but understand the counterpoints offered by Posh .

This squad is limited & inferior v earlier Australian outfits & possibly the least credentialed group of all 32 nations in Qatar, so understand the aim of the match v France was damage limitation.What sticks in the craw is that the team & tactics were so passive & timid.
Other underdogs have shown what's possible with positive attitude & approach.

That's not to say we should attack all out &/or expect wins in the last 2 matches. We could likely lose both but just want the team to play with intent & belief.
 

TigerForce

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Apr 26, 2004
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Wow. Head clash between Iran forward and Wales GK. Yellow card to GK has become a red card thanks to VAR.

Funny this VAR. Looked unintentional. Not sure how these flogs change their mind at times.
 

Panthera Tigris

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Apr 27, 2010
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They always struck as a less skilled but equally disciplined German team.
In that sense, perhaps we can think of Scotland as a less skilled version of England. And given that England generally always disappoints, Scotland is REALLY, REALLY disappointing.
 
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TigerForce

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Last minute goal to Iran in ET. They deserve the win given how sloppy Wales have been.....including another late goal.

2-0 Iran. Wales is gone now.
 

Panthera Tigris

Tiger Champion
Apr 27, 2010
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Virtually knocked his nation out of the WC.

Iran v USA even more tasty now
From a political stand point. Only match up more tasty would be Iran Vs Saudi Arabia, in a Gulf hosted World Cup.

As ridiculous as it sounds. War over a football match has happened before.