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Frawley v Walla$e & Miller whos to blame for our current situation?
- Thread starter btoz_01
- Start date
SCOOP said:
Good theory, except Miller arrived after all of these decisions were made. The 2002 trade and draft period and onwards is all we can pin on Miller.
My view on Frawley is that he was given every opportunity and was well-supported by the club right to the bitter end. He was even given a shot at keeping his job with the recruiting of Marsh, Morrison, Fletcher etc in 2003, Miller noted at the time that he was beginning a rebuild but had a bet each way to give Frawley a fair run in 2004 with a few older players. Each way bets, of course, usually disappoint.
Nonetheless, Frawley was a dead man walking in 2004 but was supported right to the end. If he was a fair-minded individual instead of a whinging sniper he would accept this and address his comments elsewhere. He was not sacked or white-anted, so what exactly is his beef, if I can mix my metaphors with gay abandon?
wally got us brown,symonds,noble who if were on the ground this year we wouldent be having this conversation
btoz_01 said:
IMO it's nearly the same shyte again with Wallace, but not as bad. Frawley, as we know made some big blunders come draft time by giving away picks and topping up with players such as Weller, Marsh, Houlihan, Flemming, Hudson, Nicholls, etc.. (gee that's sickening). Wallace has kept more of our picks but topped up a bit with players like Graham, Knobel, P.Bowden, Brown & Kingsley. While Brown is a gun, no doubt, we did still give up alot to get him; draft selections 6 & 20 if i remember correctly. We've obviously had no luck with Brown's injury but we still went the quick-fix, short-sighted route once again. Brown aside, he got the others all very cheap so i don't have a big problem with that. Where i think Wallace & the recruiting department has failed biggest is once again our RECRUITING. This is the biggest reason i think why we wont be successful for a long time yet. We still don't know how to recruit well. Even with our superdraft of 2004, so far it is looking pretty dissapointing. Take off the yellow 'n black rose colored glasses for a min or two and see that our picks of '04 aren't maybe gonna be as good as we need them to be. Deledio was a no-brainer at pick 1 but from what i've seen, isn't a true gun onballer who can play most of the time in the midfield. Not a real footy brain and in tight player in the guts. As we've seen he's been used mainly off a half back flank, where he can use his great pace and kick to help setup up play and drive off the backline, or pinch hit up forward as another leading target. Not the complete midfielder we are seeking so desperately.
Next Tambling. Hmmm. I have big concerns for Ritchie. Thought he'd definately be better than what i've seen of him. Another who doesn't look like a proper midfielder. Has pace yes (something Wallace is obsessed with at the detriment of real FOOTBALL ability), but doesn't win enough of his own ball, always on the outskirts of packs and doesn't get involved enough in the play. Also lacks composure which is very strange for an indigenous player. Looks a little panicky still and just doesn't have that smoothe overrall look about him as most aboriginal players do. Big question marks.
Then we have Meyer. Don't think i need to say too much about Danny. Very dissappointing so far. Yeh he looks neat, supposedly has a great kick, but big deal. What's the point if you can't even get the ball? What a waste if this is all we're gonna get from him.
Pattison. Huge motor, runs very well for a big man, great endurance which is very impressive but is too slow and his kicking is ummm...sheizen. Is not really a ruckman, can't win many hitouts and overrall is a bit of an unco.
While Polo showed last year that he has talent, he's not very damaging, his kicking is very ordinary, doesn't have much pace, and has been dissappointing this year. Don't think he will improve that much. Has a good quick brain which is his strength.
Add Shulz to that list (pick 12 of '02), nice mark, nice kick, but can't present well enough consistently, back and forth to become a gun forward. Not that quick on the lead but his real problem is not being able to make multiple leads time and again over the course of a game. Doesn't have the endurance or running ability to be a great forward. Not good enough overrall and has no real standout attributes. Lazy.
I know it's a little early to judge our decision on picking up JON with our first pick at 8 in the 2005 draft but he looks like he has some major flaws. Kicking is very hit and miss and a bit uncoordinated. His awareness in a few of the games he has played has been atrocious. Getting run down and having no peripheral vision on a few occassions he has been caught is a big worry. Good footy players know what's around them. Next in that draft came Mitch Clark at pick 9; tell me we couldn't do with someone of his obvious ability. Looks like a gun already. Great mark, lead and skills for a big man. Kicking for goal is a bit of a worry at the moment, but he has it; it's plain to see. Has that competiveness about him too, a bit of a hard-nut which is a bonus. There was also Shaun Higgins, Nathan Jones, Shannon Hurn, Grant Birchall & Travis Varcoe who all went just after JON in that draft. All of them are showing great signs for their respective clubs and look safer bets of becoming great players atm than JON does.
If you look at our midfield right now it is woeful. Foley is the only real gun midfielder in there. So after all these drafts, we still couldn't find any gun midfielders? THIS IS OUR BIGGEST PROBLEM.
So yeh, Wallace & Miller are just as much to blame as Frawley in my opinion. Has continued on the great RFC curse.
:'(GO TIGES!!!
3 players as opposed to the entire team of them Frawley brought to the club. Frawley is a joke, even his response today contains one of his cliches.mb64 said:
Just sticking my 2 cents in here in support of P Bowden...
I really don't believe he should be grouped with Kingsley and Graham. I mean, they were old aged pensioners recruited for quick fixes. Patrick is a member of our very limited middle-aged group, and certainly wasn't recruited for a quick fix. Terry knew of his talent at the Bulldogs, knew he wasn't applying it as much (or been given a chance to) and snapped him up.
He had a break out year last year, something which none on here could deny. It's quite clear there are deficiencies in his game, but surely others can see his superior football brain and disposal abilities amidst his unnaccountable ways.
This year's been a bit of a downer so far, but injury did strike him down. When he's fit again, he'll be back.
It really does *smile* me to see Patrick in the company of Kingsley *cough* DUD *cough*, he provides infinitely more worth than anything Kent would hope to.
Honestly, I reckon Frawley is jealous of Terry's turnaround of Patrick...Frawley recruited practically an entire 22 of recycled players and couldn't achieve ANYTHING with them like Terry did with Patrick. Sour grapes including him in the list, I reckon...
I really don't believe he should be grouped with Kingsley and Graham. I mean, they were old aged pensioners recruited for quick fixes. Patrick is a member of our very limited middle-aged group, and certainly wasn't recruited for a quick fix. Terry knew of his talent at the Bulldogs, knew he wasn't applying it as much (or been given a chance to) and snapped him up.
He had a break out year last year, something which none on here could deny. It's quite clear there are deficiencies in his game, but surely others can see his superior football brain and disposal abilities amidst his unnaccountable ways.
This year's been a bit of a downer so far, but injury did strike him down. When he's fit again, he'll be back.
It really does *smile* me to see Patrick in the company of Kingsley *cough* DUD *cough*, he provides infinitely more worth than anything Kent would hope to.
Honestly, I reckon Frawley is jealous of Terry's turnaround of Patrick...Frawley recruited practically an entire 22 of recycled players and couldn't achieve ANYTHING with them like Terry did with Patrick. Sour grapes including him in the list, I reckon...
mb64 said:
Frawley recruited hacks as core players, Wallace has recruited hacks on the margins, to fill out the team on cheap contracts. I'd prefer Kingsley not be playing but Jack Reiwoldt had a bad debut and it doesn't look like Hughes has set the world alight for Coburg since he was dropped. If Wallace did recruit Kingsley to put a rocket up players like Hughes then I can see a reason for playing him now even if I disagree with it, there have been some concerns over Hughes attitude. Plus our recruiting problems with young players can be laid at Miller's feet rather than Wallace's. And what do you expect Wallace to say anyway? He can't bag the players for obvious reasons, and can you imagine the feeding frenzy in the press if he says his tactics have been wrong.
BTW are you Mr Black on asar?
Mikee said:
Just for the record Mikee, it's important to point out that Browny arrived a full season before Terry Wallace came to Tigerland.
CarnTheTiges said:
Sziller, Blumfield, Biddiscombe, Fletcher..surely there's more.
Danny Frawley criticising anyone. :rofl
Frawley and Back hurt the club and set the club back 5 years -
That said and thats the easy part that all will jump on BUT...........................
Wallet and Mullet are also responsible for poor drafting and list mismanagement ie - re signing duds luike Hall, Krakouer, Hyde, Tivendale Pettifer etc and even worse bringing dead wood like Pat Bowden and Kingsley to the club is in excuseable and a cheap attempt at sneaking an early finals spot at the detriment of club youth development.
Only taking 3 in the 05 draft was indefensible in my opinion especially with the crap list.
Drafting too many light bodied outside flankers when we need quality tall KPP over 194 cm and hard skilled ball winning midfielders.
Not cutting the list deeper over the past 2 years and wasting rookie picks on the likes of Graham.
Wallace and Miller are not innocent parties in this, and should also have the finger pointed at em and are deserving of their share of the blame as well as Frawley, Beck, and anyone else involved in recruiting since 1990.
That said and thats the easy part that all will jump on BUT...........................
Wallet and Mullet are also responsible for poor drafting and list mismanagement ie - re signing duds luike Hall, Krakouer, Hyde, Tivendale Pettifer etc and even worse bringing dead wood like Pat Bowden and Kingsley to the club is in excuseable and a cheap attempt at sneaking an early finals spot at the detriment of club youth development.
Only taking 3 in the 05 draft was indefensible in my opinion especially with the crap list.
Drafting too many light bodied outside flankers when we need quality tall KPP over 194 cm and hard skilled ball winning midfielders.
Not cutting the list deeper over the past 2 years and wasting rookie picks on the likes of Graham.
Wallace and Miller are not innocent parties in this, and should also have the finger pointed at em and are deserving of their share of the blame as well as Frawley, Beck, and anyone else involved in recruiting since 1990.
craig said:
Craig
Totally agree, the king of spin and his side kick teflon man are just as much to blame as Spud and Beck.
The stop gap measures they have implemented have got us to our current esteem position.
Tigers of Old said:Mikee said:
Just for the record Mikee, it's important to point out that Browny arrived a full season before Terry Wallace came to Tigerland.
CarnTheTiges said:
Sziller, Blumfield, Biddiscombe, Fletcher..surely there's more.
Danny Frawley criticising anyone. :rofl
I feel sick
Seeing all those duds in one post isn't good for my health.
craig said:
Craigy Babe, this is probably the only part of your post I disagree with. I'm no fan of Hyde, Krak, Hall Tiva etc etc, but you can only cut back so much so quickly. With all of the crap on our list, how were we going to get the picks low enough, to get the good players who'll last. I think you're better off with the old crap you know, than the young stuff you don't. We got Matt White, with what would have normally been our pick in the 4th round of the national draft. And for all his effort, he's certainly not a classy match winner that we need. He could be a decent 5-10 year player at this level, who knows? There wasn't too much more we could have got at the back end of the draft.
For all - if Miller is so full of spin like people say he is (ie he could sell a fridge to an eskimo), how come he cannot move the hacks, duds and overrated triers on our list for draft picks?
A) Because everyone in the league already knows all about the hacks, duds and triers on our list, and they're nigh on impossible to move. We probably would have got nothing more than 4th round picks, and players of Matty White's calibre, with transfer fees etc etc, and 2 year contracts. Better to keep those hacks, and systematically delist them, as time goes by.