Game Day - Tigers v Roos | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Game Day - Tigers v Roos

tigersnake

Tear 'em apart
Sep 10, 2003
23,683
12,121
jb03 said:
Those stats have been posted all over twitter. Contrary to popular belief, replacement coaches do not have a great record in their first up games

I don't do twitter, I do PRE. And THANK YOU L2. Contrary to the contrary to, the popular belief holds. Statistically those bounce figures are significant. These are basket case sides remember. Sides with no hope. But, it us, its twiitter, so I understand the poo pooing.

Sides with no hope of winning, hence coach sack, go to 50/50 chance of winning, and THE SO CALLED TWITTER VERSE SAYS IT'S NOT A FACTOR! I call barrat
 

mad_tiggy911

Tiger Legend
Mar 30, 2009
7,454
1,575
We're making up the numbers this year unfortunately. We're gonna get smacked in both games before the bye.

I hope we're active this off season.
 
Feb 25, 2007
12,695
6,417
mad_tiggy911 said:
We're making up the numbers this year unfortunately. We're gonna get smacked in both games before the bye.

I hope we're active this off season.

Dont fall for that, last year we were the best team and you know how that went in the prelim.
Cats will finish on top and no guarantee they'll win it. When all our stars come back and we have 7 straight games at the G watch us roar into the top 4 and time our run into finals like 2017
 

mexican_radio

*fix the midfield*
Feb 12, 2005
3,751
920
South of the Border
AstuteTiger said:
Dont fall for that, last year we were the best team and you know how that went in the prelim.
Cats will finish on top and no guarantee they'll win it. When all our stars come back and we have 7 straight games at the G watch us roar into the top 4 and time our run into finals like 2017
This hugely optimistic post has cheered me up, thank you.
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,097
22,054
57
AstuteTiger said:
Dont fall for that, last year we were the best team and you know how that went in the prelim.
Cats will finish on top and no guarantee they'll win it. When all our stars come back and we have 7 straight games at the G watch us roar into the top 4 and time our run into finals like 2017

Can happen, but hopefully the Chokers start tiring like we did in the last quarter of the H&A season.
 

glenn downing

Tiger Cub
Jun 2, 2014
139
179
A bit off topic sorry but just have to get this off my chest. I acknowledge that Ben Brown is a very good forward but gees he sure annoys me. It seems that he just constantly craves the attention/spotlight of the crowd and the tv cameras with;
- his ridiculous sideshow Bob hair
- wearing the ridiculously high number of 50
- the super ridiculous lengthy run up every time that he has a shot for goal. Even for a simple 20 metre shot straight in front of goal he goes back 40-50 metres. It just seems to be all about "look at me everyone".
 

TigerForce

Tiger Legend
Apr 26, 2004
71,097
22,054
57
glenn downing said:
A bit off topic sorry but just have to get this off my chest. I acknowledge that Ben Brown is a very good forward but gees he sure annoys me. It seems that he just constantly craves the attention/spotlight of the crowd and the tv cameras with;
- his ridiculous sideshow Bob hair
- wearing the ridiculously high number of 50
- the super ridiculous lengthy run up every time that he has a shot for goal. Even for a simple 20 metre shot straight in front of goal he goes back 40-50 metres. It just seems to be all about "look at me everyone".

I know the dumpire's blown time off but doesn't that bowler's run take about 30 seconds?
 

Dev Tiger

Tiger Superstar
Mar 15, 2014
1,420
1,483
The lack of ability to compete on the inside has been a factor in all four of the losses this year. We barely had a non competitive effort in 2017 or 2018 but there have already been four in eleven games this year. The club obviously realises inside mids are needed and the first two draft picks last year were both inside mids. I think we need to trade one in for 2020 but the best hope this year are probably Towner and Graham with Jack Ross still a long way off. Cotch will obviously improve as well. Zeibell, Cunnington and Higgins just did as they pleased on Friday night. We need more big bodies to help or we will keep getting monstered. There must be a physical response on Friday night win loose or draw.
 

leon

Tiger Legend
Apr 6, 2014
9,011
4,554
AstuteTiger said:
If this team isnt applying manic pressure, they aint skillful enough to beat teams. How many times do we miss targets by foot and hand.
When we apply pressure and tackle hard we win more than not but when the pressure is down we really struggle.

Yep, for me too, that sums it up quite astutely, Astute. We will not be a great team, good enough to win multiple flags, until we can field a side that is both a high skill team i.e. with more players who are better at marking, hand-balling, running and kicking - and a high pressure team. It's demonstrated game by game in our profligacy in front of goal and wasted F50 entries. Too many players that cannot finish plays with a goal, or simply stuff up trying to play cute or 'I can beat the world' plays: Butler/Bolton/Higgins.

The top contenders this year are closer to this quality of team than we are I believe. I think the Moggies may really expose our weaknesses much more Fri. Let's face it - better ruck/midfield and forward line. Where are we better? (They a much revamped side since '17/18).
 

snags

Tiger Superstar
Oct 28, 2005
1,760
2,114
Dev Tiger said:
The lack of ability to compete on the inside has been a factor in all four of the losses this year. We barely had a non competitive effort in 2017 or 2018 but there have already been four in eleven games this year. The club obviously realises inside mids are needed and the first two draft picks last year were both inside mids. I think we need to trade one in for 2020 but the best hope this year are probably Towner and Graham with Jack Ross still a long way off. Cotch will obviously improve as well. Zeibell, Cunnington and Higgins just did as they pleased on Friday night. We need more big bodies to help or we will keep getting monstered. There must be a physical response on Friday night win loose or draw.
Hopefully Pickett’s finger will heal in time to see how much of a priority this is going into 2020. With Ross also fit and RCD pressing we might look a whole lot better in a few months.
 

Baron Samedi

Tiger Champion
Apr 20, 2016
4,301
861
leon said:
Yep, for me too, that sums it up quite astutely, Astute. We will not be a great team, good enough to win multiple flags, until we can field a side that is both a high skill team i.e. with more players who are better at marking, hand-balling, running and kicking - and a high pressure team. It's demonstrated game by game in our profligacy in front of goal and wasted F50 entries. Too many players that cannot finish plays with a goal, or simply stuff up trying to play cute or 'I can beat the world' plays: Butler/Bolton/Higgins.

The top contenders this year are closer to this quality of team than we are I believe. I think the Moggies may really expose our weaknesses much more Fri. Let's face it - better ruck/midfield and forward line. Where are we better? (They a much revamped side since '17/18).

No, this is incorrect.

We actually have quite a skilful team these days. Have you looked at us move the ball forward on the burst? Often it’s breathtaking.

We botch so many inside 50s because our system is defence orientated and we are usually looking to

A) avoid intercept markers and therefore quick oppo rebounds

B) crib territory

C) create opportunities for our crumbers to score or force turnover.

When these are your objectives going forward, the numbers of entries will be high relative to actual scoreboard hits.

Saying we are unskilled is a furphy and the quicker it is eradicated from these boards the better.

We are a premiership team for crissakes.
 

Coburgtiger

Tiger Legend
May 7, 2012
5,035
7,239
Baron Samedi said:
No, this is incorrect.

We actually have quite a skilful team these days. Have you looked at us move the ball forward on the burst? Often it’s breathtaking.

We botch so many inside 50s because our system is defence orientated and we are usually looking to

A) avoid intercept markers and therefore quick oppo rebounds

B) crib territory

C) create opportunities for our crumbers to score or force turnover.

When these are your objectives going forward, the numbers of entries will be high relative to actual scoreboard hits.

Saying we are unskilled is a furphy and the quicker it is eradicated from these boards the better.

We are a premiership team for crissakes.

We were a premiership team.

We are not currently.

Half our current team is premiership players.

We probably have a premiership squad.
People often overcomplicate analyses of football teams. The reality is, we are playing without the spine of our premiership team. Our premiership AA three time Coleman full forward, our premiership AA captain full back, and our two premiership ruckman. Throw in a couple of premiership mids in Lambert and Graham, and we are almost unrecognisable as a premiership team.

In 2018 and 2017 I knew that if we played well, we'd win. And if we didn't play well, we'd still probably win because we have Jack and Rance who refuse to lose.

This year, I'm pretty confident if we play well, we'll win. If we don't play well, we will definitely lose unless Dusty is able to win it off his own boot.

It's a different ball game.
 

TigerPort

Tiger Champion
Jun 29, 2006
2,535
2,777
NSW
Not many of us, in 2017, thought we had a premiership team up until the pre lim final was won.

We need 14 wins to ensure we play finals and then anything can happen from there.

Right now, at the half way mark of the home and away part of the season, we sit half way to that target at 7 and 4 with most of our remaining games at the MCG and with Riewoldt, Nankervis and Lambert to come back in.
 

IanG

Tiger Legend
Sep 27, 2004
18,112
3,350
Melbourne
mad_tiggy911 said:
We're making up the numbers this year unfortunately. We're gonna get smacked in both games before the bye.

I hope we're active this off season.

Why? If we do lose the next 2 our position will be entirely due to injuries, we are the worst affected team by injuries this year.
 

Baron Samedi

Tiger Champion
Apr 20, 2016
4,301
861
Coburgtiger said:
We were a premiership team.

We are not currently.

Half our current team is premiership players.

We probably have a premiership squad.
People often overcomplicate analyses of football teams. The reality is, we are playing without the spine of our premiership team. Our premiership AA three time Coleman full forward, our premiership AA captain full back, and our two premiership ruckman. Throw in a couple of premiership mids in Lambert and Graham, and we are almost unrecognisable as a premiership team.

In 2018 and 2017 I knew that if we played well, we'd win. And if we didn't play well, we'd still probably win because we have Jack and Rance who refuse to lose.

This year, I'm pretty confident if we play well, we'll win. If we don't play well, we will definitely lose unless Dusty is able to win it off his own boot.

It's a different ball game.

Here is where your logic falls over Coburg:

Leon posited that we are not a skilful team.

I maintain that we are a skilful team, and have been since 2017. It is our defence first system that often paints us in a scrappy light.

You say that since we are missing half of our premiership team, we must therefore be less skilful. Forgive me if you are not saying this. If that’s the case, your argument over “premiership team” semantics is a little pedantic.

But if you ARE suggesting we are currently “unskilled”, then I would throw these new names at you:

Stack
Higgins
Balta
Baker
Bolton

All of these players are highly skilled and would regularly hit passes and hand balls.

To say we are not skilful is ridiculous.

Young? Yes.

Missing our key position champions at the minute? Yes.
 

Rabbia

Tiger Cub
Aug 18, 2015
94
21
I kind of agree with portions of the posts above, but not all. Some points I either don't agree with or am just not sure what is being said.

It can't somehow be determinative if a player was part of a premiership, even relatively recently. Best you can say about that is that there's a greater likelihood maybe, of the player being able to perform under premiership pressure, as they've been there before. But obviously as time goes on from that point, a variety of factors can mean a particular player is no longer in the best 22 RFC can put out there. So for example, Townsend, Butler, Ellis, Graham, maybe even Rioli, (but let's see on that last one) are unlikely to be in our best 22, if a full list were somehow available.

Rance and Jack were/are HUGE outs, really obviously. Both are undeniable champions and would be a major hole in any club's list, if unavailable. I think we can cover the loss of Rance more than Jack, given the talent we have. But he's still a major loss, even so.

I KIND of get this skilled point, but am not sure how valid it is ulimately. The way we play at full pitch is chaotic, so we might tend to miss a bit more than others, as a result. I mean if everything is flying around the place in the forward line, misses are more likely to occur, don't you think?

At the same time these 'skilled' players listed... From all we've seen to date, Stack is an out and out cracker of a player - find of the year it looks like. Baker has been very good, but even now you just wonder if he just MIGHT be a bit small, at some point. Balta is a young colt who plays like one - we don't know how good he'll be yet. Higgins is not as impactful as he seemed to be before, but again who knows. This could be...second year blue stuff, or worst case, he came in as an unusually highly trained footballer, so shone early but may not have as much upside in the end. Bolton, would be the least convincing of all, in terms of everything we've seen so far at AFL level. His defensive efforts have improved, but he's not a 'cruncher'. His offensive work can be streaky/flashy, even if during those times he can be brilliant. I'm also not sure if he's 'smart' enough, which encompasses team play, split second best options, and so on. Compare him in that respect, with Stack say - maybe not completely fair, due to position differences.

I'm not saying any one of them is not 'skilled', they are. But I'm not sure what that means in the end. Naish for example is 'skilled' but query still if he could stand up in AFL. All I mean is, I'm not sure that skilled necessarily means a winning team. A guy can be less skilled, but a winner. Depends on the role, etc.

We NEED an elite ruckman, most of all. That is the most obvious difference between us and the better teams. Okay yea Geelong don't have one, but we do need one, even so. I don't mean to replace Nank, I mean to add to him. Also more midfield strength. Lynch needs time with Jack, also. A LOT of time, so it's all 'second nature'. And the rest of the team with both of them, same deal.

As for Friday, well the odds say we are underdogs, and we are. But we can win, and IF we win, I'd say it says a lot about our prospects at the end of the season, with players back.

We can only wait and see. It we lose it's not the end of the season, right then and there, although it's harder, sure.
 
E

easy_tiger

Guest
Good post rabia.

I agree with all of it except the question on $hais decision making. And i understand its only a speculation rather than a question